I'm working on a demo (for a friend, who sings finnish tangos: www.tangontaikaa.de + myspace.com/tangontaikaa) and we did lots of edits and soundmanipulation to get the best impression out of 2 concerts, a homerecording and a studio session. we did most possible edits (over several months) and maxed the overall volume (maybe too much..) now we try to fade (=end) some of the songs in a natural/musical way. I recently bought a SM -Patch2-volume controller and each manual fade seems to be quite easy/good sounding with it. logic's destructive fade outs (with different curves) simply do not sound the same.. so we even thought of rerecording the manual fade outs, but maybe a part of the problem lies in the reduced solution.. another problem is: treble seems to stick out at low volume and sometimes there shouldn't be any hihat on the last bass notes.. and sometimes the musicans (accordion is very dynamic/expressiv instrument) build things up, where we want things to go down. we tried to manual lower things by hand, in musical steps (before applying the fade out), but this gets very complicated and time consuming. (in logic I can access only one step/selection at a time (in the sample editor) and have to undo plus redo a lot..) it would be very cool, to have some kind of markers (for the musical steps/phrases) and to be able to adjust them instantly.. is there a application for things like this or do you work within the arrange-window and with automation? (which plugin do you automate - 'gain' seems 'unmusically' for this / probably volume automation works better, but has to be bounced..) I'm looking forward to read your comments/advice and wish everybody a happy and inspiring new year ! With Compliments, Benjamin Wild wildjamin.de myspace.com/benjaminwild

On 02/01/2007, at 12:07 AM, Benjamin Wild wrote: > I'm working on a demo (for a friend, who sings finnish tangos: > www.tangontaikaa.de + myspace.com/tangontaikaa) > and we did lots of edits and soundmanipulation to get the best > impression out of 2 concerts, a homerecording and a studio session. > we did most possible edits (over several months) and maxed the > overall volume (maybe too much..) > > now we try to fade (=end) some of the songs in a natural/musical way. > > I recently bought a SM -Patch2-volume controller and each manual fade > seems to be quite easy/good sounding with it. > logic's destructive fade outs (with different curves) simply do not > sound the same.. > so we even thought of rerecording the manual fade outs, but maybe a > part of the problem lies in the reduced solution.. > > another problem is: treble seems to stick out at low volume and > sometimes there shouldn't be any hihat on the last bass notes. You've discovered one of the (to me was) surprising principals of audio. A linear or convex/ concave fade rarely sounds natural. You need a fade that fades naturally at the start and through the middle and then goes really slowly at the very bottom of the curve so you don't get that drop out - kind of like a backwards S shape. You do this in Logic with volume automation and the curve tool. It works pretty well. Even better IMO is the fades system available in Waveburner Pro. This program comes with the Logic package and was installed with Logic in your applications folder. WB's fade scheme offers even more flexability. Check it out if the automation in Logic is not enough. By the way, if you are intending on getting the tracks mastered outside by someone it's better to leave the fades till then... Kind regards ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Paul Najar Jaminajar Music Production www.jaminajar.com