hi all, i'm want to send a single note pattern thru a transformer set to randomize the note value, but also, want to control the random amount with a slider, am trying to do this in the environment window but just can't even get started. any help at all would be greatlly appreciated. also, are there any tutorials or pre-built objects available to download? big thanks to all in advance, tom

On Oct 5, 2005, at 1:28, tomdcarden wrote: > hi all, > i'm want to send a single note pattern thru a transformer set to > randomize the note value, > but also, want to control the random amount with a slider, > > am trying to do this in the environment window but just can't even > get started. any help at > all would be greatlly appreciated. also, are there any tutorials > or pre-built objects > available to download? > > big thanks to all in advance, > > tom This is a very interesting field. I've been wishing for such functions in Logic for years (like random scripts of Live 4/5, midi plug-ins of SX or the chaos function of Stylus RMX). Today I gave it a quick shot and actually managed to set up a basic "velocity randomization machine". No controlling faders though, just a rough randomizer. Here's the fix: 1. In the environment, create a new layer named My Weird Stuff. 2. Create a MIDI instrument and name it "Random Velocity 1". Make sure it's ticked to appear in the Arrange Windows track list. 3. Create a Transformer object. 4. Create an audio object and set it to host the audio instrument you want to randomize velocity for. 5. Cable the midi instrument to the Transformer. 6. Set the transformer to: - Apply Operetion Let non-matching Events pass thru - Status = Note - Vel +- Rand (and some value, I liked -79) 7. Cable the transformer to the audio instrument object. 8. In the Arrange Window, create a MIDI track based on the MIDI instrument "Random Velocity 1" You may change any suggested object name and use this trick as your own ;-) Maybe someone more skilled can post a tip on how to create an automizable fader to control the transformers randomization value? When doing this it became obvious how lame Logic is when it comes to randomization. The environment objects need more parameters. I searched in vain for "postition" or "sub position" to be able to set up a randomization for how tight the MIDI sequences will play back, but then I remembered that parameter has never been part of the Transformer object, only the Transform window. We would also need to set up probability for the random action to occur in the first place. Greetings from Sweden Per Boysen www.looproom.com (international) www.boysen.se (Swedish) ---> iTunes Music Store (digital) www.cdbaby.com/perboysen

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, "tomdcarden" <tomdcarden@y...> wrote: > i'm want to send a single note pattern thru a transformer set to > randomize the note value, but also, want to control the random > amount with a slider, > am trying to do this in the environment window but just can't even > get started. any help at all would be greatlly appreciated. also, > are there any tutorials or pre-built objects available to download? Let me get this straight- send in 2 bars of say C1 16ths randomize- out comes D1,e3,f4,F#2 etc? Logic doesn't have a transformer to ranomize note so you need 3 transformers- first one changes notes to velocity-next transformer randomizies velocity-then another transformer to switch it back to a note. I have a song somewhere where I set up Touch Tracks in LA so that each time I hit the same key, a random sequence plays back. I'll look for it.

On 05.10.2005, at 17:19, Per Boysen wrote: > how to create an > automizable fader to control the transformers randomization value? Region based automation is ok? Then take a transformer and set it to "Random" (not "+-Random"). Create fader 1: Output: Meta, Ch1, 127. (that one controls randomness) Create fader 2: Output: Meta, Ch1, 126. (that one controls the minimum value) Cable both faders to the transformer and activate their "Icon" checkbox in the parameters. Load them into 2 tracks and record enable both tracks with Shift-Click. Record and move the faders, you should get two regions with automation data. Playback: the faders move and if you open the transformer you see both values changing. Basic setup finished. Any special wishes? ___ Peter Ostry

> On 05.10.2005, at 17:19, Per Boysen wrote: > > >> how to create an >> automizable fader to control the transformers randomization value? >> > On Oct 6, 2005, at 3:51, Peter Ostry wrote: > Region based automation is ok? > > Then take a transformer and set it to "Random" (not "+-Random"). > > Create fader 1: > Output: Meta, Ch1, 127. > (that one controls randomness) > > Create fader 2: > Output: Meta, Ch1, 126. > (that one controls the minimum value) > > Cable both faders to the transformer and activate their "Icon" > checkbox in the parameters. Load them into 2 tracks and record enable > both tracks with Shift-Click. Record and move the faders, you should > get two regions with automation data. > > Playback: the faders move and if you open the transformer you see > both values changing. Basic setup finished. > > Any special wishes? > > ___ > Peter Ostry Wow, Peter, that's great information! Where did you find out about which parameters different Meta controllers target? Now I'm going to build me two controller tracks for my autoload: one for note pitch and one for velocity. When I think about it I could actually also use a third one that for velocity division (ride the fader to increase or decrease all velocity values). I just wish there was a way to do the same to "sub position", so you could play and record automation of timing accuracy. Greetings from Sweden Per Boysen www.looproom.com (international) www.boysen.se (Swedish) ---> iTunes Music Store (digital) www.cdbaby.com/perboysen

On 06.10.2005, at 08:34, Per Boysen wrote: > Wow, Peter, that's great information! Where did you find out about > which parameters different Meta controllers target? In the manual (page 279 in the German ptrinted version). It is after the channel splitter. You don't find it in the index (no surprise) There are four meta events for transformers: Meta, Ch1, 125 -> first upper row Meta, Ch1, 124 -> second upper row Meta, Ch1, 127 -> first lower row Meta, Ch1, 126 -> second lower row The meta's control all fields which are set to some function. So set just those which you want to control and leave others to Thru/All. Use more transformers for different controls. There is no meta event for the message type. > Now I'm going to build me two controller tracks for my autoload: one > for note pitch and one for velocity. When I think about it I could > actually also use a third one that for velocity division (ride the > fader to increase or decrease all velocity values). Just add a transformer, set the -2- value (lower row) to "Fix" and feed it with meta 127. > I just wish there was a way to do the same to "sub position", so you > could play and record automation of timing accuracy. You mean that notes vary in timing? Hm. I am not sure yet if the MIDI delay is controllable, will have a look into that. But if yes, it would mean that you could also vary the number of repetitions (that is a thing for Per Boy, I guess :-) ___ Peter Ostry

> On 06.10.2005, at 08:34, Per Boysen wrote: > >> I just wish there was a way to do the same to "sub position", so you >> could play and record automation of timing accuracy. On Oct 6, 2005, at 13:54, Peter Ostry wrote: > You mean that notes vary in timing? Yes. "Sub position" is one of the parameters available in the Transform window that can be used to manipulate recorded MIDI data. But there is no such parameter in the Transformer object that addresses streaming real-time data. > Hm. I am not sure yet if the MIDI > delay is controllable, will have a look into that. I'm afraid MIDI delay is not controllable in such a way. A wish of many since long time ago. > But if yes, it > would mean that you could also vary the number of repetitions (that > is a thing for Per Boy, I guess :-) Are you referring to the loop function? Using the track volume would do the trick as well as varying the number of repeated loops of a recorded region. But generally, I still hope we will one day get the option to MIDI control the play parameters of the parameter box. It would be cool if the play parameters could be set as target for automation (track based as well as region based) and also as the target for real-time external control surfaces (including external MIDI). Greetings from Sweden Per Boysen www.looproom.com (international) www.boysen.se (Swedish) ---> iTunes Music Store (digital) www.cdbaby.com/perboysen

On 06.10.2005, at 15:08, Per Boysen wrote: >>> I just wish there was a way to do the same to "sub position", so you >>> could play and record automation of timing accuracy. > > On Oct 6, 2005, at 13:54, Peter Ostry wrote: >> You mean that notes vary in timing? > > Yes. "Sub position" is one of the parameters available in the > Transform window that can be used to manipulate recorded MIDI data. > But there is no such parameter in the Transformer object that > addresses streaming real-time data. The transform window can do it because it deals with recorded material. A transposer can't do that in a stream. >> Hm. I am not sure yet if the MIDI >> delay is controllable, will have a look into that. > > I'm afraid MIDI delay is not controllable in such a way. A wish of > many since long time ago. We are still not lost. Get a cable switcher and a bunch of delays with different settings. Then random-switch it. If the delay doesn't need some initial impulse that should work. You might have to scale the random input to keep it within the switch range. > ... I still hope we will one day get the > option to MIDI control the play parameters of the parameter box. I am with you. > It > would be cool if the play parameters could be set as target for > automation (track based as well as region based) and also as the > target for real-time external control surfaces (including external > MIDI). External MIDI is rather good implemented. For example, just catch the input of an expression pedal and map it to a fader which controls randomness of notes. And you are not bound to random pitch or velocity but can send the data to a plugin or volume/pan. I gave up to hope that the environment will go better, there seems to be no interest on Apples side. But at least it should not go worse at it is. it is no longer possible to create larger environments but there is still a lot of power for little helpers. ___ Peter Ostry

> On 06.10.2005, at 15:08, Per Boysen wrote: > >> It >> would be cool if the play parameters could be set as target for >> automation (track based as well as region based) and also as the >> target for real-time external control surfaces (including external >> MIDI). >> On Oct 6, 2005, at 16:50, Peter Ostry wrote: > > External MIDI is rather good implemented. For example, just catch the > input of an expression pedal and map it to a fader which controls > randomness of notes. And you are not bound to random pitch or > velocity but can send the data to a plugin or volume/pan. I gave up > to hope that the environment will go better, there seems to be no > interest on Apples side. But at least it should not go worse at it > is. it is no longer possible to create larger environments but there > is still a lot of power for little helpers. > > ___ > Peter Ostry Yes, I agree that external MIDI control is rather well implemented - but that was not what I was talking about. ;-) My wish is to use this well implemented MIDI control of Logic's and target the functions known as "play parameters of the parameter box". Greetings from Sweden Per Boysen www.looproom.com (international) www.boysen.se (Swedish) ---> iTunes Music Store (digital) www.cdbaby.com/perboysen

Just wanted to say a sincere thanks for the help. You guys are brilliant, I wasn't expecting much interest on this unusual(?) request. all best, tom in nyc