Again: Installing the newest Security Update, at least via automatic upgrade, can disable your complete MIDI system. It has done that to mine. Hands off! Peter Ostry

On 02.04.2005, at 08:37, Peter Ostry wrote: > Again: > Installing the newest Security Update, at least via automatic upgrade, > can disable your complete MIDI system. It has done that to mine. > > Hands off! Good news Installing the latest Combo update from Feb 9 did NOT enable MIDI again. On my system the "bad boy" was the M-Audio Firewire 410 driver. Removing the driver by pulling it out of '/Library/Audio/MIDI Drivers' brought back MIDI, uninstalling (by uninstaller!) and reinstalling the Firewire 410 driver (by installer!) brought back the Firewire 410. Bad news: As usual the physical input in the environment got messed up with the change of the MIDI setup, no damn song has now the correct connections :( Peter Ostry

>Again: >Installing the newest Security Update, at least via automatic upgrade, >can disable your complete MIDI system. It has done that to mine. > >Hands off! Thanks for the warning Peter. It's remarkable that every one of the latest security upgrades breaks MIDI. I'd have thought that having a flagship program like Logic, Apple would test these things comprehensively first. I was forced to re-install my system lately after a similar event - not a pretty sight! (I mean me, fuming at swearing at Apple.....) Regards - Colin

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, Colin Shapiro <musos@i...> wrote: > > >Again: > >Installing the newest Security Update, at least via automatic upgrade, > >can disable your complete MIDI system. It has done that to mine. > > > >Hands off! > > Thanks for the warning Peter. > It's remarkable that every one of the latest security upgrades breaks MIDI. > > I'd have thought that having a flagship program like Logic, Apple > would test these things comprehensively first. > > I was forced to re-install my system lately after a similar event - > not a pretty sight! (I mean me, fuming at swearing at Apple.....) > > Regards - Colin I hate to be a party pooper but i have had the opposite experience with all the updates. I have not had a problem such as you describe. Michael

>> >> Thanks for the warning Peter. >> It's remarkable that every one of the latest security upgrades breaks >> MIDI. >> >> I'd have thought that having a flagship program like Logic, Apple >> would test these things comprehensively first. >> >> I was forced to re-install my system lately after a similar event - >> not a pretty sight! (I mean me, fuming at swearing at Apple.....) >> >> Regards - Colin > > I hate to be a party pooper but i have had the opposite experience > with all the updates. I > have not had a problem such as you describe. > > Michael Nor have I. Every security update has worked well for me. Perhaps it is the interface used? That is the only thing I can think of. What unit(s) do you use? Chris Inner Force Music

On Apr 2, 2005, at 5:42 AM, Colin Shapiro wrote: > >> Again: >> Installing the newest Security Update, at least via automatic upgrade, >> can disable your complete MIDI system. It has done that to mine. >> >> Hands off! > > Thanks for the warning Peter. > It's remarkable that every one of the latest security upgrades breaks > MIDI. > > I'd have thought that having a flagship program like Logic, Apple > would test these things comprehensively first. > > I was forced to re-install my system lately after a similar event - > not a pretty sight! (I mean me, fuming at swearing at Apple.....) > > Regards - Colin > > I was having a conversation at the Apple store with a friend who works there, and he said, and I quote" Don't do the security upgrades, if your behind a fire wall, which most users who have DSL are already". My router has a built in firewall, and if yours does, don't bother to do these updaters. They really seem to just screw up music based systems. I've had more tech calls about this in the last few months.. George ________________________________________________________ www.utopiaparkwaymusic.com Mac AND PC: The only way to fly 8-}

On 2.4.2005, at 10:34, Peter Ostry wrote: > > Removing the driver by pulling it out of '/Library/Audio/MIDI Drivers' > brought back MIDI, uninstalling (by uninstaller!) and reinstalling the > Firewire 410 driver (by installer!) brought back the Firewire 410. Interesting...most of the times that I have read about these problems thay have always been with M-Audio's drivers ? I've done every update and every secure update and they have all worked fine. Cheers Check out the web page for my band updated 12.12.2004 . New home address : http://jormapen.fidisk.fi

On Apr 2, 2005, at 5:42 AM, Colin Shapiro wrote: > Thanks for the warning Peter. > It's remarkable that every one of the latest security upgrades breaks > MIDI. > > I'd have thought that having a flagship program like Logic, Apple > would test these things comprehensively first. > Its broken MIDI on your system, not everyone's. Mine has been, and still is perfectly fine after the last two security updates. --- Chris www.descentrecords.com

> > Removing the driver by pulling it out of '/Library/Audio/MIDI > > > > > Drivers' brought back MIDI, uninstalling (by uninstaller!) and > > > > > reinstalling the Firewire 410 driver (by installer!) brought back . > > the Firewire 410. > > Interesting...most of the times that I have read about these problems > thay have always been with M-Audio's drivers ? > I've done every update and every secure update and they have all > > > worked fine. If you haven't run the 10.2.8 Combi updater and you are downloading directly from your software updater you will have problems with any of the Security Updaters. And some companie's drivers are definitely less compatible with the Apple OS than others. You may at some point want to try RME, Lnyx, or MOTU. All updates are working well here, midi and audio. Bring on Tiger and Logic 7.1.......PLEASE! BTW, Amazon is taking pre-orders of Tiger 10.4. A delivery date says June 1 is expected. Then, I've heard Apple would announce Tiger on April 1st, which they didn't. At any rate I wouild be expecting Tiger and Logic 7.1 before July 1st. Cheers

> I was having a conversation at the Apple store with a friend > who works there, and he said, and I quote" Don't do the > security upgrades, if your behind a fire wall, which most > users who have DSL are already". > > My router has a built in firewall, and if yours does, > don't bother to do these updaters. They really seem to just > screw up music based systems. I've had more tech calls about > this in the last few months.. Although I have no explanation for why the updaters appear to be more likely to be a problem than the combos, I can't understand how the firewall would make a difference. The updater package goes through a check after downloaded to ensure that it is not corrupt prior to installing. I can't see how a firewall could corrupt the download and still have the validity check pass. I'm not questioning that the problems occur, I just doubt that the firewall is the issue. Kamm

At 14:23 Uhr -0500 02.04.2005, Kamm Schreiner wrote: >Although I have no explanation for why the updaters appear to be more likely >to be a problem than the combos, I can't understand how the firewall would >make a difference. The updater package goes through a check after downloaded >to ensure that it is not corrupt prior to installing. I can't see how a >firewall could corrupt the download and still have the validity check pass. I don't think that's the issue, it's more that if there is a firewall present on a router, you're less likely to _need_ those security updates... At least that's how I interpreted it... Cheers Hans

On Apr 2, 2005, at 12:23 PM, Kamm Schreiner wrote: > > >> I was having a conversation at the Apple store with a friend >> who works there, and he said, and I quote" Don't do the >> security upgrades, if your behind a fire wall, which most >> users who have DSL are already". >> >> My router has a built in firewall, and if yours does, >> don't bother to do these updaters. They really seem to just >> screw up music based systems. I've had more tech calls about >> this in the last few months.. >> What are the symptoms of being screwed up? Anything in particular, or all sorts of things? Something happens to my samples, where either the sounds themselves (Battery, GPO, Sampletank) can't be found by Logic, or the links to them don't work. Something is corrupting things, and I've wondered if it's utilities I use (MacJanitor, Webwasher), or something else. I have no idea what. But I do have DSL, and heretofore I've been installing the security updates. Maybe I shouldn't be. James

> I'm not questioning that the problems occur, I just doubt that the firewall > is the issue. > > Kamm I guess that the meaning was: "a firewall makes the updates unnecessary" instead of "the firewall makes the updates do wrong things". Petr

On 05/4/2 11:23 AM, "Kamm Schreiner" <kamm@...> wrote: > I can't see how a > firewall could corrupt the download and still have the validity check pass. > > I'm not questioning that the problems occur, I just doubt that the firewall > is the issue. I thought the point was that if you have a firewall you don't need the update.

> I guess that the meaning was: "a firewall makes the updates > unnecessary" > instead of "the firewall makes the updates do wrong things". Thanks. After re-reading it, I can see how that is probably what is being suggested. I'm not sure I agree with that either, but if you feel that the firewall keeps you safe, go for it. ;) Kamm

On Apr 2, 2005, at 9:44 AM, Jorma Pennanen wrote: > > On 2.4.2005, at 10:34, Peter Ostry wrote: >> >> Removing the driver by pulling it out of '/Library/Audio/MIDI Drivers' >> brought back MIDI, uninstalling (by uninstaller!) and reinstalling the >> Firewire 410 driver (by installer!) brought back the Firewire 410. > > Interesting...most of the times that I have read about these problems > thay have always been with M-Audio's drivers ? > I've done every update and every secure update and they have all worked > fine. > Interesting theory, but in the interest of scientific validity, I will have to shoot it down. I have drivers for M-Audio firewire 410 and Oxygen 8, and I always do the security updates as soon as they are posted (I'm not very cautious) and have never had anything bad happen to my midi (as a result of security or OS upgrades, I have had bad things happen to my midi that involved other things!) So, I guess it is still possible that these problems are always associated with M-Audio drivers, but M-Audio drivers are not always associated with these problems. p

> > It's remarkable that every one of the latest security upgrades breaks >> MIDI. >> >> I'd have thought that having a flagship program like Logic, Apple >> would test these things comprehensively first. >> > > >Its broken MIDI on your system, not everyone's. >Mine has been, and still is perfectly fine after the last two security >updates. Fair enough. It seems that certain users have no problems, but it is clear that many of us DO. For example, George Leger wrote: >I was having a conversation at the Apple store with a friend who works >there, and he said, and I quote" Don't do the security upgrades, if >your behind a fire wall, which most users who have DSL are already". > > My router has a built in firewall, and if yours does, don't bother to >do these updaters. They really seem to just screw up music based >systems. I've had more tech calls about this in the last few months.. Clearly individual systems are so varied and different that it becomes difficult to pinpoint where the faults start. However, among these varied systems, many are badly affected by the Security Updaters, and that's quite worrying.... Regards - Colin

George wrote: >I was having a conversation at the Apple store with a friend who works >there, and he said, and I quote" Don't do the security upgrades, if >your behind a fire wall, which most users who have DSL are already". Good point! I use DSL and have a firewall so I'm going to disregard these updates until further notice. Thanks and regards Colin

On Apr 2, 2005, at 11:23 AM, Kamm Schreiner wrote: > Although I have no explanation for why the updaters appear to be more > likely > to be a problem than the combos, I can't understand how the firewall > would > make a difference. The updater package goes through a check after > downloaded > to ensure that it is not corrupt prior to installing. I can't see how a > firewall could corrupt the download and still have the validity check > pass. > No, the firewall is the PROTECTION you need that the security updates usually address. Meaning, if your behind a firewall, you don't usually even NEED them George ________________________________________________________ www.utopiaparkwaymusic.com Mac AND PC: The only way to fly 8-}

> No, the firewall is the PROTECTION you need that the security > updates usually address. Meaning, if your behind a firewall, > you don't usually even NEED them Yep, I got straightened out from others on the list. That's what I get for skimming a post rather than "reading" it. Sorry about that. However, as I implied in a previous post - ignore the security updates at your own risk. Best, Kamm

At 4:55 pm -0800 2005.04.02, George Leger III wrote: >On Apr 2, 2005, at 11:23 AM, Kamm Schreiner wrote: > >> Although I have no explanation for why the updaters appear to be more >> likely >> to be a problem than the combos, I can't understand how the firewall >> would >> make a difference. The updater package goes through a check after >> downloaded >> to ensure that it is not corrupt prior to installing. I can't see how a >> firewall could corrupt the download and still have the validity check >> pass. >> > >No, the firewall is the PROTECTION you need that the security updates >usually address. Meaning, if your behind a firewall, you don't usually >even NEED them "Usually." But security updates also include fixes for many things which have nothing to do with a firewall, including the latest Unicode-in-URL exploit. I've also seen them improve things which have nothing to do with security. In this case, they may simply be uncovering an existing problem. G

On Apr 2, 2005, at 4:19 PM, Kamm Schreiner wrote: > Thanks. After re-reading it, I can see how that is probably what is > being > suggested. I'm not sure I agree with that either, but if you feel that > the > firewall keeps you safe, go for it. ;) > > Kamm > > Not the newest Security Update - but the one just previous was basically a new Java Engine. There were some flaws in how the old one could be told to perform certain unwanted tasks. No Fire Wall sorts through Java code - so I do not agree with the statement that if you have a Fire Wall - you do not need the Updates. Just my 2 cents worth. Dave Shirk Pamlico Sounds Oriental, NC

On 2.4.2005, at 21:50, jonathankek2000 wrote: > If you haven't run the 10.2.8 Combi updater and you are downloading > directly from your software updater you will have problems with any of > the Security Updaters. Well I have done all my updating from 10.2 to 10.3 and from 10.3 to the current 10.3.8 without combo updating and have done all the security updates all without a problem. Cheers Check out the web page for my band updated 12.12.2004 . New home address : http://jormapen.fidisk.fi

On 02.04.2005, at 18:21, Chris Caouette wrote: > Every security update has worked well for me. Perhaps it > is the interface used? That is the only thing I can think of. What > unit(s) do you use? It turned out to affect M-Audio drivers and, if I remember right, MOTU was mentioned too. So many of you won't have a problem. If I had known that before I wouldn't have installed the last combo update over the current system (which did no harm at all). It is enough to remove the M-Audio driver completely and reinstall it, preferable before opening Logic or the Audio/MIDI panel. If you get a new MIDI setup then some input ports in Logic might be messed up. You do not see that if you do not work with device-specific routing. I have no idea what really happens. System updates do not change third party software, so I believe something in the system gets changed which is needed by some drivers to work properly. The bug (or "non-optimal" function) can be in the driver software or the updater software. For those people who complained about the subject: yes, I should have named it "can disable MIDI". But when I lost my MIDI system I wanted to warn you as soon as possible and did not care much about correct wording :) Peter Ostry

<Admin note - let's kill this thread as it is increasingly wandering off topic> On Apr 2, 2005, at 8:13 PM, Dave Shirk wrote: > Not the newest Security Update - but the one just previous > was basically a new Java Engine. There were some flaws in > how the old one could be told to perform certain unwanted tasks. > No Fire Wall sorts through Java code - so I do not agree with > the statement that if you have a Fire Wall - you do not need > the Updates. > Exactly. Firewalls are not god. They are not unstoppable. Firewalls are nice, but firewalls dont stop rogue web apps and html code from getting executed and exploited since most of that stuff comes through on a port thats already wide open on your lovely firewall. Of course you can argue that were on Macs and yada yada, but the Mac isnt going to be safe forever.. Especially now that Jobs is marketing his Mac Mini to everyone and their mother, and they seem to be taking the bait.. --- Chris www.descentrecords.com

Op Sunday 03 April 2005 23:32, schreef Chris Coccia: > Of course you can argue that were on Macs and yada yada, but the Mac > isnt going to be safe forever.. The operating system of the Mac is inherently pretty safe due to its structure (meaning IF viruses get in, they'll have more difficulty causing trouble), but that's exactly what the security updates (normally meaning bugfixes in the OS) apply to. :o) So it's best to keep it updated, although if your mac is really just a studio machine that only connects to the internet for downloading updates and you're not using it to receive mass-forwarded silly jokes from friends or visit warez- or pornsites, there's not that much that can happen to it (if you have a firewall). Maurits.