I hope this post doesnt get filtered out. I think its important. I finally got my logic 7 pro two days ago and it is awesome!!! I say don't get discouraged because for about two months I would read all these post and ,honestly, I was scared of getting logic 7 because it seems all i read was about problems I never even dreamed about when considering a recording program. Anyway I finally decided to get it and got ready for a big pain in the butt installation with trying to configure stuff that should be done manually. Also I heard this was the hardest program to learn and it wasnt very intuitive and stuff like that. You guys out there read the same things as me ,you know what i am talking about. All that stuff was opposite for me... I installed it and was playing with the soft synths in about 30 minutes. No problems or crazy things happening, just a killer looking and sounding program. I will say this there is alot to learn about the program because there is alot of features to the program. learning Logic 7 doesnt seem bad. I thought I was going to be going crazy trying to do basic stuff. Something I learned about all this digital program stuff, for me is , if you learn basic funtions of one you just have to find where the functions are on the other. I mean I learn midi editing and working with sequencers from reason 2.5 and alot is the same, to me.. So, IMHO, dont be like me and be scared of this program because it is a awesome and creative pallette to make music. this program where take you where you need to go. It will work with you on what ever level you are on.

> I hope this post doesnt get filtered out. I think its important. No posts are "filtered out." The moderators will step in on occasion but even then you would be notified that your post was not forwarded on to the list. Brian :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Logic Audio Pro 7.0.0 PowerMac G4 933MHz OS X 10.3.7 1 GB RAM MOTU 828mkII - driver v1.09 - CueMix v1.4

> So, IMHO, dont be like me and be scared of this program > because it is a awesome and creative pallette to make music. > this program where take you where you need to go. It will > work with you on what ever level you are on. Yes, Logic *is* an awesome program. Congratulations on your purchase! However, certain parts of the program *are* far more difficult to setup/configure than the competing programs. For me, this is especially true with respect to setting up sound modules. Once you get things setup though, Logic has a plethora of features that make it a wonderful tool. I hope that Apple will (and actually feel confident that they will) update some of these areas of the program to bring them more up-to-date with the competitors. A few areas of Logic that need updating because they currently make the program more difficult to use than the competitors... Setup of Sound Modules and Synths: "Multi instruments" are very outdated. Menu System: Mac programs are supposed to have *one* menu bar, not one for each window. Unless, of course, Apple prefers the "Windows" approach to menus. ;) In addition, the menus on the individual windows are smaller and more difficult to click with the mouse and there is no "keyboard" way to access them that I know of. Help System: Context sensitive help for complex dialogs like the Transformer dialog are desperately needed. The competitors have "Help" buttons on most dialogs.

"Kamm Schreiner" <kamm@...> writes: >Menu System: Mac programs are supposed to have *one* >menu bar, not one for each window. Unless, of course, Apple >prefers the "Windows" approach to menus. However, Logic Windows didn't have this good method of having local menus per window. Certain global menus would stay constantly (as Logic Mac's global menus) but then certain other global menus would change depending on which window was topped. I didn't like this. Among other things, it meant that you couldn't access a local menu in a window without first topping it. In Logic Mac, you can access an untopped window's local menu (or any other part of the window) without topping it by using the long-click method. There are also many other Mac programs with local menus. It makes perfect sense.... have commands available that only make sense in a particular window. ProTools and Digital Performer certainly do this. Certain rules that were written in a vacuum make sense to break in actual practice. For example, there's an Apple rule which states that the mouse can never be moved by the software (only by the user). This means that when you click on a large flip-menu, and the current selection is way off to one extreme, the mouse stays still but the menu can be partially offscreen. The other (much more sensible) method is to have the menu open up fully onscreen but have the mouse pointer move towards the current selection. f-erenc szabo, smarty pants Z+E+R+O+B+E+A+T "NOW POWERED BY THE MIRACLE OF THE TRANSISTOR!" <http://home.goodmedia.com/~zerobeat>

> However, Logic Windows didn't have this good method of having > local menus per window. Certain global menus would stay > constantly (as Logic Mac's global menus) but then certain > other global menus would change depending on which window was > topped. I didn't like this. Among other things, it meant > that you couldn't access a local menu in a window without > first topping it. In Logic Mac, you can access an untopped > window's local menu (or any other part of the window) without > topping it by using the long-click method. As with most things, one size doesn't fit all. We will have to agree to disagree on this. I still think that Apple should stick with their guidelines and personally think it would improve the program. The menu bar would simply change to match whichever window is currently active. That certainly would not cause any confusion. For me, it would alleviate some confusion. If I were a betting man, I'd bet that the menus will eventually get changed to match Apple guidelines now that it is an Apple product. Only time will tell... ;) Kamm

I completely agree. When I picked up Logic 6 about a year ago, I was terrified after all I had read about it. Indeed, the first time I booted it up (after using Live 3 for several months) I was intimidated......But once I figured out how to get it configured (which took me several hours) I explored Logic by using those features which were most readily accessible. It took about ten minutes to figure out how to load software instruments, how to set up cycle mode recording, how to cut and paste tracks, how to use plug-ins, etc. Now, one year later and with Logic Pro 7 (which I think is slightly easier to use) I am still using the same basic skills that I learned in those first few sessions. I haven't encountered many of the problems that advanced users do simply because I am not at their level. I haven't bothered with using the Environment or many of the sophisticated customization techniques. But for my purposes, exploring the incredible soft synths and plug ins, making simple (8-16 track) recordings, compiling CD's for friends, I can still use Logic at a reasonably basic level and derive great benefit from it. I mean I don't even use key commands (except to change patches) or customized window set-ups. I have a few start- up templates configured and then I play and record my music. I booted up Audio Desk (which came with my MOTU 828mkII) and it was no more or less complicated than Logic. It took a few hours to get oriented. Obviously experienced DAW users and the many pros who contribute to this forum have great insights about the strengths and weaknesses of Logic Pro. I learn a great deal about the program just by following this and other forums. My point is to reinforce the original post......don't be put off by the reputation of Logic as impenetrable. It just takes a bit of effort and concentration to get going (several hours) and then there's an incredible amount you can explore without even worrying about some of the advanced features. At the same time, you have great depths of possibilities to explore when you want to take on additional challenges.

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, "Kamm Schreiner" <kamm@s...> wrote: > The menu bar would simply change to > match whichever window is currently active. That certainly would not > cause any confusion. For me, it would alleviate some confusion. For me, it would be a major major pain in the arse. I frequently use the menus in background windows, or in floating windows, which cannot be made active... John Pitcairn ------------------------------------------------------------- Logic Control emulation for generic midi controllers: LC Xmu demo: http://www.opuslocus.com/lcxmu/ -------------------------------------------------------------

John Pitcairn wrote: > For me, it would be a major major pain in the arse. I frequently use > the menus in background windows, or in floating windows, which cannot > be made active... Btw, is that an OS based thing? This seriously is one of the most annoying things for me when working with LogicPro. Being used to Windows' behaviour I'm used to "active" float windows (with working keycommands) as well. In a floating Matrix I can just select a note and press backspace to delete it while under Logic/Mac the "parent" sequence will get deleted. This is a true PITA! - Sascha

> For me, it would be a major major pain in the arse. I > frequently use the menus in background windows, or in > floating windows, which cannot be made active... You use menus in background windows??? Exactly how do you click on that menu with the window in the background? Once you click on that menu, it is not longer a background window. Right? Kamm