> Re: Annoyances with L7 > 40. When you just want to record some keyboard to audio - you can shit select the midi channel and the audio channel - but no matter what order you select, the channel strip only shows the midi channel - so you can't see the meter strip.

> Re: Annoyances with L7 These annoyances are coming from someone who has been using a competing PC product. I'm currently trying out Logic and although I like Logic *a lot*, there are some very basic problems that make learning the program difficult compared to other programs. Apple is supposed to be the "User Friendly" company, so I hope they are monitoring this list as I'm trying to be helpful through constructive criticism. 41. AutoDrop should be named Punch-in. 42. The Matrix Editor should be named Piano Roll Editor. 43. What they heck does "Hyper" mean in the Hyper Editor? A more descriptive name would be helpful. 44. Context sensitive help based on the Macs help system is badly needed. Waiting 15 seconds for a PDF to load and then having to wait another 15 seconds for the search to complete is not exactly a workflow plus. (I am using an 800 MHz iMac and those figures are not to far from fact although I haven't used a stop watch.) 45. The manual's index is so bad as to be virtually useless. Apple needs to spend a few thousand dollars to hire a professional indexer for the next release of the manual. That will help both Apple (through lower support costs) and Logic users (through finding answers to questions quickly and easily). Do you realize that the word Reverb does not exist in the index??? Nor does an entry for metronome settings. The "Punch-in" index entry takes you to the glossary rather than the AutoDrop text. I could go on... 46. The manual, in general, needs more "Step by step" examples of doing common tasks and more screen shots. The manual seems to concentrate more on "what" the program can do rather than on "how" to do it. All of the instructions are written in paragraph style rather than as line-by-line (step-by-step) instructions. Because of this, once you've done step one, you have to scan the paragraph again to find step two and so on. With numbered instructions, you can easily glance back at the page and find "2)" so that you don't have to re-read what you've already read. 47. It seems to me that "Clip" or "Take" would be much better names for Regions. Do people actually use the phrase "Region" in recording studios (that don't have Logic)? I never heard the term used until I bought Logic. 48. For heavens sake... get the bugs out. Most of the annoyances I listed may seem small, but I think they are *very* important. Simple things like naming things appropriately can make all the difference in the world to someone who is trying to learn a program as complex and powerful as Logic. As an aside, I really do like Logic now that I've finally learned all the basics. I find it easy to be productive and really like the way the program "feels" during use.

> >> Re: Annoyances with L7 >> > > 40. When you just want to record some keyboard to audio - you can shit select > the midi channel and the audio channel - but no matter what order you select, > the channel strip only shows the midi channel - so you can't see the meter > strip. If you're shit selecting, how do you see the screen? :)

Op Wednesday 01 December 2004 16:53, schreef Kamm Schreiner: > compared to other programs. Apple is supposed to be the "User Friendly" > company, so I hope they are monitoring this list as I'm trying to be > helpful through constructive criticism. They might but I doubt it; a better way to get feedback to Apple, would be to send feedback to Apple. :o) It might give a very nice releaved feeling to write "for heaven's sake please fix this" and "bring back that" to the Logic _User_ Group but I doubt it will have much effect (other than receiving hints from other users about how to deal with it). Maurits.

> a better way to get feedback to Apple, would be to > send feedback to Apple. :o) And how does one contact the programmers for Logic? Kamm

"Kamm Schreiner" <kamm@s...> wrote: > 45. The manual's index is so bad as to be virtually useless. Apple needs to > spend a few thousand dollars to hire a professional indexer for the next > release of the manual. That will help both Apple (through lower support > costs) and Logic users (through finding answers to questions quickly and > easily). Do you realize that the word Reverb does not exist in the index??? > Nor does an entry for metronome settings. The "Punch-in" index entry takes > you to the glossary rather than the AutoDrop text. I could go on... > > 46. The manual, in general, needs more "Step by step" examples of doing > common tasks and more screen shots. The manual seems to concentrate more on > "what" the program can do rather than on "how" to do it. All of the > instructions are written in paragraph style rather than as line-by-line > (step-by-step) instructions. Because of this, once you've done step one, you > have to scan the paragraph again to find step two and so on. With numbered > instructions, you can easily glance back at the page and find "2)" so that > you don't have to re-read what you've already read. I agree 100%. The manual has been overhauled a couple of times in the last two versions, but the basic problems with the manual remain. Features are still undocumented that preclude continued use of previously useful pages. For example, has anyone figured out how to use the "Choose" feature in the "Numbers & Names" menu in the Score Editor? I can't for the lifeof me find any documentation about this new "Font" window, and I can't seem to change my bar numbers (and Instrument names) from a 'note heads and rests' font to the readable default I've always used. Looking up Score/Font in the Manual Index takes you to a page that tells you that you can use Adobe Sonata. Frustrating! Sonny Keyes SKa Music Toronto www.skamusic.ca

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, "Sonny Keyes" <sonnykeyes@s...> wrote: > > For example, has anyone figured out how to use the "Choose" feature > in the "Numbers & Names" menu in the Score Editor? I can't for the > lifeof me find any documentation about this new "Font" window, and > I can't seem to change my bar numbers (and Instrument names) from > a 'note heads and rests' font to the readable default I've always > used. Looking up Score/Font in the Manual Index takes you to a > page that tells you that you can use Adobe Sonata. Frustrating! > > Sonny Keyes > SKa Music > Toronto > > www.skamusic.ca Sonny, That feature here pretty much works as I guess it would (I have not looked for documentation). It allowed me to select fonts for page and bar numbers from the fonts that I assume reside in my Fonts folder. It did readily apply the changes. May be an issue of what folder your old fonts reside? Doug

> --- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, "Sonny Keyes" <sonnykeyes@s...> > wrote: > > For example, has anyone figured out how to use the "Choose" feature > > in the "Numbers & Names" menu in the Score Editor? I can't for the > > lifeof me find any documentation about this new "Font" window, and > > I can't seem to change my bar numbers (and Instrument names) from > > a 'note heads and rests' font to the readable default I've always > > used. Looking up Score/Font in the Manual Index takes you to a > > page that tells you that you can use Adobe Sonata. Frustrating! --- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, "dougzpro" <zpro@c...> wrote: > That feature here pretty much works as I guess it would (I have not > looked for documentation). It allowed me to select fonts for page > and bar numbers from the fonts that I assume reside in my Fonts > folder. It did readily apply the changes. May be an issue of what > folder your old fonts reside? But that seems to just reflect whatever you put in the text style. For me, trying to change it in numbers and names does nothing, I don't understand why it is there. Even if it does work, which it obviously does for you, isn't it it superfluous as you would expect to set these fonts in the text editor, or am I missing something? Pete Thomas www.petethomas.co.uk - Free Logic Icons, Environments and EXS Instruments

"Kamm Schreiner" <kamm@...> writes: >"Clip" or "Take" would be much better names for >Regions. Do people actually use the phrase "Region" in recording studios >(that don't have Logic)? I never heard the term used until I bought Logic. The term "region" is very standard, and is used by numerous other applications, including ProTools. The word "take" means a very different thing in the world of audio (similar to what it means in film). Two different takes are indeed two different regions, but two different regions are NOT always two different takes. The word "clip" would imply some kind of chop or snip to some people I suppose. "Region" is a good choice. f-erenc szabo, smarty pants Z+E+R+O+B+E+A+T "NOW POWERED BY THE MIRACLE OF THE TRANSISTOR!" <http://home.goodmedia.com/~zerobeat>

> > For example, has anyone figured out how to use the "Choose" feature > > in the "Numbers & Names" menu in the Score Editor? I can't for the > > lifeof me find any documentation about this new "Font" window, and > > I can't seem to change my bar numbers (and Instrument names) from > > a 'note heads and rests' font to the readable default I've always > > used. > > That feature here pretty much works as I guess it would (I have not looked for > documentation). It allowed me to select fonts for page and bar numbers from the fonts > that I assume reside in my Fonts folder. It did readily apply the changes. > May be an issue of what folder your old fonts reside? > > Doug Doug, please tell me how you instruct Logic to apply the selection you make in the "Font" window. Or does it just apply it immediately as soon as you choose one? (Mine doesn't) As to the location of my fonts, the lists in the new Font window seem to be collated out of the contents of all "Fonts" folders in all Library folders on my startup disk. I don't think it's having trouble finding them, just changing them! Sonny Keyes SKa Music Toronto www.skamusic.ca

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, "Pete Thomas" <pt@p...> wrote: > > But that seems to just reflect whatever you put in the text style. For > me, trying to change it in numbers and names does nothing, I don't > understand why it is there. Even if it does work, which it obviously > does for you, isn't it it superfluous as you would expect to set these > fonts in the text editor, or am I missing something? > > Pete Thomas Thanks Pete, you're right - it does change in the text style window. At least now I can use it the way I've always used it, but I'm still baffled by the elaborate yet non-functional 'Font' window in N & N. Sonny Keyes SKa Music Toronto www.skamusic.ca

On Dec 1, 2004, at 16:53, Kamm Schreiner wrote: > 46. The manual, in general, needs more "Step by step" examples of doing > common tasks and more screen shots. The manual seems to concentrate > more on > "what" the program can do rather than on "how" to do it. Very true. Have you ever read the description of the Test Oscillator? A straightforward thingy. The description tells you everything you can see on the screen... and a lot of in-depth information: my german manual explains that 'needle pulse' generates waves in the form of needles... oh, very interesting... and the frequency fader controls the frequency! wow! But what they do not tell is how you get it running - I wanted to send a signal to an external mixer (which I think is a usual action) and put the test oscillator into an output channel. Nothing. There is no "Play" button and there was no tone. I got a coffee and started to try different channels - bus, audio, instrument. I even was silly enough to write some notes, just to see if the plugin needs 'something' to get triggered. Finally I reached an input channel. Peeeep, I was on +6dB, the speakers smashed my coffee cup... This oscillator works in input channels only, at least for me. Why don't they say that? Peter Ostry

Peter wrote: > There is no "Play" > button and there was no tone. I got a coffee and started to > try different channels - bus, audio, instrument. I even was > silly enough to write some notes, just to see if the plugin > needs 'something' to get triggered. Finally I reached an > input channel. Peeeep, I was on +6dB, the speakers smashed my > coffee cup... I literally burst out laughing when I got to the smashed coffee cup! You certainly did give a very good example of non-helpful documentation. Maybe the v8.0 manual will be better. Kamm

Peter Ostry <po@...> writes: >Have you ever read the description of the Test Oscillator? A >straightforward thingy. The description tells you everything you can >see on the screen... and a lot of in-depth information: my german >manual explains that 'needle pulse' generates waves in the form of >needles... oh, very interesting... and the frequency fader controls the >frequency! wow! > >But what they do not tell is how you get it running - I wanted to send >a signal to an external mixer (which I think is a usual action) and put >the test oscillator into an output channel. Nothing. There is no "Play" >button and there was no tone. I got a coffee and started to try >different channels - bus, audio, instrument. I even was silly enough to >write some notes, just to see if the plugin needs 'something' to get >triggered. Finally I reached an input channel. Peeeep, I was on +6dB, >the speakers smashed my coffee cup... This oscillator works in input >channels only, at least for me. > >Why don't they say that? Because this way is funnier. f-erenc szabo, smarty pants Z+E+R+O+B+E+A+T "NOW POWERED BY THE MIRACLE OF THE TRANSISTOR!" <http://home.goodmedia.com/~zerobeat>

On Dec 1, 2004, at 8:44 AM, Maurits van de Kamp wrote: > They might but I doubt it; a better way to get feedback to Apple, > would be to > send feedback to Apple. :o) Yes, however they haven't exactly advertised where they want us to do that..have they? Besides, if Apple has ANY sense, they are monitoring this forum, heavily. Stefan Garr

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, "f-erenc szabo" <zerobeat@g...> wrote: > Peter Ostry <po@o...> writes: > >Have you ever read the description of the Test Oscillator? A > >straightforward thingy. The description tells you everything you can > >see on the screen... and a lot of in-depth information: my german > >manual explains that 'needle pulse' generates waves in the form of > >needles... oh, very interesting... and the frequency fader controls the > >frequency! wow! > > > >But what they do not tell is how you get it running - I wanted to send > >a signal to an external mixer (which I think is a usual action) and put > >the test oscillator into an output channel. Nothing. There is no "Play" > >button and there was no tone. I got a coffee and started to try > >different channels - bus, audio, instrument. I even was silly enough to > >write some notes, just to see if the plugin needs 'something' to get > >triggered. Finally I reached an input channel. Peeeep, I was on +6dB, > >the speakers smashed my coffee cup... This oscillator works in input > >channels only, at least for me. > > > >Why don't they say that? > > Because this way is funnier. > > > > f-erenc szabo, smarty pants > Z+E+R+O+B+E+A+T > "NOW POWERED BY THE MIRACLE OF THE TRANSISTOR!" > <http://home.goodmedia.com/~zerobeat> I've used and enjoyed Logic Express 6 & 7 for around a year now, and I've whined about this before and I realize that Apple likely pays no attention to the LUG, but one more time... Could Apple please--oh please--offer a printed manual to accompany Logic Express? I find the 522 page PDF all but useless. I'd happily pay extra for a printed manual. It used to be possible to purchase the Pro reference manual from Emagic, but so many of those features do not exist in Express that the Pro manual would be of limited use to me. OK. I'll try not to mention this again. Thanks in advance for your patience.

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, "Pete Thomas" <pt@p...> wrote: > > But that seems to just reflect whatever you put in the text style. For > me, trying to change it in numbers and names does nothing, I don't > understand why it is there. Even if it does work, which it obviously > does for you, isn't it it superfluous as you would expect to set these > fonts in the text editor, or am I missing something? > > Pete Thomas > www.petethomas.co.uk > - Free Logic Icons, Environments and EXS Instruments Pete, The windows are interactive - changing the setting in Names and Numbers changes the setting Text Styles window (that is what you mean by the text editor or am I missing something?) and vice versa. Yes, they are redundant features. I didn't really pay attention to the feature in N and N until Sonny mentioned it. I have always changed things in the Text Styles window. Why it works for me and not Sonny I haven't a clue. I will say I like the interface window better in N and N than the Text Styles window. Doug

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, "Sonny Keyes" <sonnykeyes@s...> wrote: > > Doug, please tell me how you instruct Logic to apply the selection > you make in the "Font" window. Or does it just apply it immediately > as soon as you choose one? (Mine doesn't) As to the location of my > fonts, the lists in the new Font window seem to be collated out of > the contents of all "Fonts" folders in all Library folders on my startup > disk. I don't think it's having trouble finding them, just changing > them! > > Sonny Keyes > SKa Music > Toronto > > www.skamusic.ca Sonny, The selection is automatic. I click on the choose button, select a font from the window that opens up, and voila, things change. I tested this with the score and the Text Styles window open. Both update instantly. As I mentioned in a post to Pete, I am new to this function. Your post inspired me to check it out. I wish I could tell you why it works here and not there. Doug

> 41. AutoDrop should be named Punch-in. But auto drop is not the same as a manual punch-in! > 42. The Matrix Editor should be named Piano Roll Editor. I disagree. "Piano Roll editor" would imply that it is for piano parts only, as "drum editor" implies drum parts. The Matrix editor provides a matrix in which you work, hence the name. > 43. What they heck does "Hyper" mean in the Hyper Editor? A more > descriptive > name would be helpful. I agree completely here, especially since there is also "hyper draw" which just adds to the confusion. > 45. The manual's index is so bad as to be virtually useless. Apple > needs to > spend a few thousand dollars to hire a professional indexer for the > next > release of the manual. And the sad, sad thing about this is that they shouldn't have to spend anywhere near that much to accomplish this. IIRC the manual was assembled in FrameMaker, and FM should have a very capable indexing system (as does InDesign) that would make this a fairly easy task for anyone even vaguely familiar with Logic. As it stands I am assuming that they left the index assembly up to the layout artist who was preparing the manual for print, someone who doesn't really know the software. This manual is leagues ahead of the garbage we've been handed in the past (if you got a manual at all, many folks did not), but it's *far* from perfect. And sometimes it seems like they're trying to be confusing... if I see the phrase "put another way" one more time... 8^) > 47. It seems to me that "Clip" or "Take" would be much better names for > Regions. Do people actually use the phrase "Region" in recording > studios > (that don't have Logic)? I never heard the term used until I bought > Logic. "Region" is a very standard term in DAW recording, as well as two-track editing (I first learned the concept using Sound Forge, years before I started with Logic). No need for a change here - it refers to a region of an audio file. A take is a separate recording, not part of an existing recorded part, and "clip" implies a destructive edit, which a region is not. Brian :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Logic Audio Pro 7.0.0 PowerMac G4 933MHz OS X 10.3.6 1 GB RAM MOTU 828mkII - driver v1.09 - CueMix v1.4

"Kamm Schreiner" <kamm@...> writes: >41. AutoDrop should be named Punch-in. No, a punch-in isn't always automatic. And AutoDrop punches in AND out. "AutoPunch" would be more accurate, but that assumes the user knows what "punch" means. The term "drop" is at least generically descriptive of what's going on. > "Kamm Schreiner" <kamm@...> writes: > >42. The Matrix Editor should be named Piano Roll Editor. But that assumes that people know what a piano roll is. When was the last time these were even manufactured? I know what they are, but I've never seen one in my entire life. The term "matrix" is at least generically descriptive of what's going on (rows and columns). f-erenc szabo, smarty pants Z+E+R+O+B+E+A+T "NOW POWERED BY THE MIRACLE OF THE TRANSISTOR!" <http://home.goodmedia.com/~zerobeat>

> Could Apple please--oh please--offer a printed manual > to accompany Logic Express? I find the 522 page PDF all but > useless. I'd happily pay extra for a printed manual. I think that Apple should include the manual for a $300 product. It should not be something you have to purchase separately. However, until that happens (ha ha), printing it yourself isn't that hard and actually has some nice benefits. I downloaded the v7.0 Pro PDF manual from the Apple website and printed it on both sides of the page. I then punched the manual and put it into a VERY large three ring binder. I doubt this is more expensive than buying it from Apple (if they have it for sale), but I admit I really don't know for sure. Anyway, the manual now lays flat open all the time. I don't have to worry about the pages flipping when I take my hands off the manual. Kamm

Alright, here's one for ya. The "Snap" fucntion doesn't make any sense. The manual states: "The Snap pull-down menu provides: Smart, Bar, Beat, Format, Ticks, Frames, and QF (Quarter Frames) options. Any edit or movement of a Region will be "snapped" to the nearest bar, beat tick and so on, as determined by the selected Snap format value". That's not correct at all. Place a region at 13.2.1.41, set the snap value to bar, and drag it. it does not snap it to the nearest bar. It moves it in increments of a bar. There's a big difference. What they've done is make this "snap" function identical to the nudge function. That is, moving the region by a predetermined increment and keeping it's relative position in the measure. We've already got a generous supply of available nudge commands. We need snap to behave like a snap, regardless of the zoom setting. best, Jon

On 2/12/04 6:31 am, "Jonathan Christensen" <jonny9091@...> wrote: > That's not correct at all. Place a region at 13.2.1.41, set the snap value to > bar, and drag it. > it does not snap it to the nearest bar. It moves it in increments of a bar. Personally I prefer this behaviour. I work with a lot of African musicians and those projects always end up with parts starting at strange positions in bars and I want the sequencer to keep these positions but allow me to copy things around the arrange page. Perhaps there should be a key command which changes Snap into the kind of MagneticSnap that you want? Different tools for different jobs. G

> Besides, if Apple has ANY sense, they are monitoring this forum, > heavily. " Apple" is a big word, but if someone on a desicion-making level WAS reading all this after the L7 release, it wouldn't surprise me if he quit after reading all the swearing and the rediculous conspiracy-theories. That's not really a way to be taken seriously. Let's hope they don't read this list, and instead just see George's compilation. :o) Maurits.

Logic manual says: >"The Snap pull-down menu provides: Smart, Bar, Beat, Format, >Ticks, Frames, and QF (Quarter Frames) options. Any edit or >movement of a Region will be "snapped" to the nearest bar, >beat tick and so on, as determined by the selected Snap format value". "Jonathan Christensen" <jonny9091@...> writes: >That's not correct at all. Place a region at 13.2.1.41, set the snap >value to bar, and drag it. it does not snap it to the nearest bar. >It moves it in increments of a bar. There's a big difference. Correct. The manual should instead say "movement of a region will be "snapped" BY an amount of time as dictated by the snap amount ( bar, beat etc....). The way Logic does it is by far the more musically useful. Cubase and ProTools only recently has this method (requested by their users for a decade or more). 99.999% of the time, I want to move a region (or note) BY a certain amount time. So if a region starts at 4.2.3.121 and I want to move it later by 3 bars, I want it at 7.2.3.121. f-erenc szabo, smarty pants Z+E+R+O+B+E+A+T "NOW POWERED BY THE MIRACLE OF THE TRANSISTOR!" <http://home.goodmedia.com/~zerobeat>

> Correct. The manual should instead say "movement of a region > will be "snapped" BY an amount of time as dictated by the snap > amount ( bar, beat etc....). > > The way Logic does it is by far the more musically useful. > Cubase and ProTools only recently has this method (requested > by their users for a decade or more). > > 99.999% of the time, I want to move a region (or note) BY > a certain amount time. So if a region starts at 4.2.3.121 and > I want to move it later by 3 bars, I want it at 7.2.3.121. So, why not use the *nudge* functionality? It's exactly the behavior you want. That's my point. We already have the more musically useful method, and have had it forever. What we don't have is a true snap function that doesn't require zooming in ridiculously tight. They call it "snap" and it behaves no different than what they call "nudge". Snap means snap, nudge means nudge. They've made this very unintuitive and confusing. nudge nudge wink wink. Jon

> Personally I prefer this behaviour. I work with a lot of African musicians > and those projects always end up with parts starting at strange positions in > bars and I want the sequencer to keep these positions but allow me to copy > things around the arrange page. Perhaps there should be a key command which > changes Snap into the kind of MagneticSnap that you want? > > Different tools for different jobs. > > G Please explain to me the difference between Logic's new Snap function, and Logic's old Nudge functions. There isn't any. That's my point. We now have identical functionality with 2 very different names. In this industry, "snap" and "nudge" have very distinct definitions. Either make this new Snap function, snap to the bar, as described in the manual . . . . or change it's name to "nudge" which is what it's really doing. best, Jon

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, Brian Pylant <bappo@b...> wrote: > This manual is leagues ahead of the garbage we've been handed in the > past (if you got a manual at all, many folks did not), but it's *far* > from perfect. And sometimes it seems like they're trying to be > confusing... if I see the phrase "put another way" one more time... > Occasionally the manual shows its German roots with an untranslated typo. Is "put another way" a common staple for tech manuals in the German language..? Sonny Keyes SKa Music Toronto www.skamusic.ca

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, "dougzpro" <zpro@c...> wrote: > Sonny, > > The selection is automatic. I click on the choose button, select a > font from the window > that opens up, and voila, things change. I tested this with the score > and the Text Styles > window open. Both update instantly. As I mentioned in a post to Pete, > I am new to this > function. Your post inspired me to check it out. I wish I could tell > you why it works here > and not there. > > Doug Thanks Doug. I went back after reading Pete's reply and realized that the font I've always used in my scores is an old Postscript font called ITC Tiepolo. The name shows up in my font lists and everything looks like it's working properly except the N & N window. As an experiment, I tried changing all the Tiepolo uses to Times (a TrueType system font from the Fonts folder in my root Library) and voila! the N & N 'Choose' window now works! I guess backwards-compatibility can only go so far! Sonny Keyes SKa Music Toronto www.skamusic.ca

f-erenc writes: >> The manual should instead say "movement of a region >> will be "snapped" BY an amount of time as dictated by >> the snap amount ( bar, beat etc....). >> The way Logic does it is by far the more musically useful. >> Cubase and ProTools only recently has this method (requested >> by their users for a decade or more). >> 99.999% of the time, I want to move a region (or note) BY >> a certain amount time. So if a region starts at 4.2.3.121 and >> I want to move it later by 3 bars, I want it at 7.2.3.121. "Jonathan Christensen" <jonny9091@...> writes: >So, why not use the *nudge* functionality? It's exactly the >behavior you want. That's my point. We already have the >more musically useful method, and have had it forever. >What we don't have is a true snap function that doesn't >require zooming in ridiculously tight. They call it "snap" >and it behaves no different than what they call "nudge". >Snap means snap, nudge means nudge. They've made this >very unintuitive and confusing. The nudge in Logic requires a keycommand. I often just want to grab stuff and move it, and have it constrain timewise to the snap amount. What you want is the ability to put Logic's snap in a "To" mode instead of the current "By" mode. Cubase SX has this feature. So: Snap BY (current Logic behaviour, where region/event is moved by an amount of time) Snap TO (moves the region/event to the snap grid, similar to what quantize might do) Currently, if I actually want the second method (Snap TO), I just move the region/event to the gridline (either graphically in the Arrange or Matrix, or numerically in the Event Editor) and then from that point forward there is no distinction between Snap BY and Snap TO. Many people don't realize that the Event Editor (or Event Float) can also show the numerical data for REGION's placement in the Arrange. Just double-click in the blank space below the Event Editor's data field (or click that tiny square at the upper left corner of the window) and you will go backwards in the hierarchy. So double-clicking on a region's start time that is located, say, at 34.2.3.142 and then typing in just "34" and hitting RETURN will immediately snap the region to 34.1.1.1 It takes way longer to type and read this than to actually do it. f-erenc szabo, smarty pants Z+E+R+O+B+E+A+T "NOW POWERED BY THE MIRACLE OF THE TRANSISTOR!" <http://home.goodmedia.com/~zerobeat>

"Sonny Keyes" <sonnykeyes@s...> wrote: > Thanks Doug. I went back after reading Pete's reply and realized that > the font I've always used in my scores is an old Postscript font > called ITC Tiepolo. The name shows up in my font lists and > everything looks like it's working properly except the N & N window. > As an experiment, I tried changing all the Tiepolo uses to Times > (a TrueType system font from the Fonts folder in my root Library) > and voila! the N & N 'Choose' window now works! I guess > backwards-compatibility can only go so far! Glad it was resolved. Gotta just love spending all this time on "time saving" tools such as computers and software. Doug

> The nudge in Logic requires a keycommand. I often just want to > grab stuff and move it, and have it constrain timewise to the snap > amount. > > What you want is the ability to put Logic's snap in a "To" mode > instead of the current "By" mode. Cubase SX has this feature. "To" and "By" is fine, although I think "relative" and "absolute" is the terminology that I was thinking of. It's also their use of the term "snap" that flat out seems wrong to me. You are nudging by the predetermined increment. > Currently, if I actually want the second method (Snap TO), I > just move the region/event to the gridline (either graphically > in the Arrange or Matrix, or numerically in the Event Editor) > and then from that point forward there is no distinction between > Snap BY and Snap TO. I think we all have our methods for moving regions in this manner. Mine is to move the SPL to the desired location by pressing the period button on the numeric keypad, and then entering the desired start time. Then using pick up clock on the selected region. Kinda messy, but it works. When I saw then new "snap" parameters on early pictures of Logic 7, I immediately thought they had installed a real Arrange page / snap TO functionality. Otherwise, why not put "nudge" on the nomenclature? Ultimately, I guess I'm wishing for a key command that puts the "snap" function in to absolute or relative modes. > Many people don't realize that the Event Editor (or Event Float) > can also show the numerical data for REGION's placement in > the Arrange. I use the Event Float a lot. And this brings up another point. The info line as we knew it was removed. No biggie really, you couldn't edit on it. It was replaced by the floating yellow stickies underneath the selected region. That causes one problem right there. What if you are trying to align to something covered up by the yellow sticky? Second, the Event float does not update it's information dynamically. The numbers don't move until you let go. You still need two separate little floating windows to see real time movement, and to be able to physically type in direct paramaters. I wish they would have incorporated the Info line into the same area that the new Global Tracks live. Visible by user preference. If I choose to view it, it remains visible in all editors. It updates dynamically, and I could enter data directly into it. That would allow me to turn off the stickes. And get rid of the Event float. Two functions covered by one. Jon

At 10:28 am -0500 2/12/04, f-erenc szabo wrote: >99.999% of the time, I want to move a region (or note) BY >a certain amount time. So if a region starts at 4.2.3.121 and >I want to move it later by 3 bars, I want it at 7.2.3.121. yes yes yes and if i want it on a bar I just type the bar # in the event editor. fast and easy. -- Best Regards, Gareth Jones http://www.garethjones.com

At 7:12 am +0000 2/12/04, G.ROSS wrote: >On 2/12/04 6:31 am, "Jonathan Christensen" <jonny9091@...> wrote: >> That's not correct at all. Place a region at 13.2.1.41, set the >>snap value to >> bar, and drag it. >> it does not snap it to the nearest bar. It moves it in increments of a bar. > >Personally I prefer this behaviour absolutely - we *LOVE* this behaviour (it's very musical IMHO) -- Best Regards, Gareth Jones http://www.garethjones.com

At 11:41 pm -0500 1/12/04, f-erenc szabo wrote: > > >No, a punch-in isn't always automatic. exactly > And AutoDrop >punches in AND out. "AutoPunch" would be more accurate, >but that assumes the user knows what "punch" means. The >term "drop" is at least generically descriptive of what's going >on. Also, FWIW, in Blighty we say (or we used to say) "drop-in" whereas our American friends say (or used to say) "punch-in" -- Best Regards, Gareth Jones http://www.garethjones.com

On Dec 4, 2004, at 10:02 AM, Gareth Jones wrote: > Also, FWIW, in Blighty we say (or we used to say) "drop-in" whereas > our American friends say (or used to say) "punch-in" So where Americans punch you drop?

> Also, FWIW, in Blighty we say (or we used to say) "drop-in" > whereas our American friends say (or used to say) "punch-in" Hmmm. Well, that is very interesting. There are actually people from other countries using Logic. Duh! I guess I'm daff. Now I can at least see how AutoDrop got its name. I couldn't for the life of me understand why they called it that. Of course, I really think Apple should go with the American lingo. ;) It's a Joke! Please, no flames. Kamm

> >> That's not correct at all. Place a region at 13.2.1.41, set the > >>snap value to > >> bar, and drag it. > >> it does not snap it to the nearest bar. It moves it in increments of a bar. > > > >Personally I prefer this behaviour > > absolutely - we *LOVE* this behaviour (it's very musical IMHO) > -- > Best Regards, > Gareth Jones Well then don't call it SNAP. And don't repeatedly explain it as it is in the manual as: "Any edit or movement of a Region will be "snapped" to the nearest bar, beat tick and so on, as determined by the selected Snap format value". Here's an idea! Let's have them put in a GRID function, and have it behave exactly like SNAP and NUDGE do now. That way we can have 3 things, labeled 3 different ways, that do the exact same thing! Wooohoo! As Sascha mentioned, Cubase got it right with "relative" and "absolute" variations of Grid mode, right next to the Snap control, which dictates the value. Logic got it wrong. Plain and simple. And there's nothing smart about "smart snap". Try telling a new user that he's gonna have to build a linked screenset, and manually type in the values if he simply wants to take that little rectangle on the screen and slide it right to that big fat line. When's he's done laughing, tell him it's for his own good 'cause it's more musical. By the way, if he's still there, then you can explain the difference between Link and Contents Link. Otherwise he'll be taken inside any midi regions he happens to click on, and won't understand why the region start time isn't also displayed. Errrr. Forget all that. Time to now whip out the Event Float! Wow! They couldn't have made this any more elegent if they tried! Of course, considering the complexity of the task (moving that little rectangle to that big fat line), I'm sure they'll understand :-) best, Jon

At 10:24 am +0900 4/12/04, dennis gunn wrote: > > >So where Americans punch you drop? that's about it :-) -- Best Regards, Gareth Jones http://www.garethjones.com

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, Gareth Jones <g@g...> wrote: > >So where Americans punch you drop? > > > that's about it :-) > > I like the pix of the boxing glove which you clicked on for "punching in" in Atari EditTrack.... <g> Charlie HF Productions Florida