Hi, Many thanks for the several fast and clear replies to my confusion about matching MIDI tracks to a 'human' (heart) beating input. It appears though that there are at least three different methods within Logic: In Logic 6: 1. "write in the tempi by ear/hand into Logic's tempo list." (Per) 2. "Logic's reclock function... by tapping" (Pete) In Logic 7 only: 3. "Global Tracks - Beat Mapping...for quickly adjusting the tempo" (Stephen) I'd like to get opinions if I can on what the relative differences are. For instance, I've heard earlier that the 'tap' function is 'rubbish' (if I remember the comment correctly). Has anyone had experience with all three, and is there one clearly easier to use? I'm in Logic 6 Pro currently (OS9). So for the present, in Logic 6, I'd also like to ask whether I should try tap, or just resign myself to manually adjusting the tempo like Per suggests. steven rowat

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, steven_rowat@s... wrote: > Many thanks for the several fast and clear replies to my confusion about > matching MIDI tracks to a 'human' (heart) beating input. > > It appears though that there are at least three different methods within Logic: > > In Logic 6: > 1. "write in the tempi by ear/hand into Logic's tempo list." (Per) > 2. "Logic's reclock function... by tapping" (Pete) > > In Logic 7 only: > 3. "Global Tracks - Beat Mapping...for quickly adjusting the tempo" (Stephen) > > I'd like to get opinions if I can on what the relative differences are. For > instance, I've heard earlier that the 'tap' function is 'rubbish' (if I > remember the comment correctly). Has anyone had experience with all three, > and is there one clearly easier to use? I have tried writing tempo changes but found it slower than tapping and then a bit of editing. Tapping has always been fine for me (which also answers peter Ostry's post), I'm no drummer either so often I will edit one or more rogue notes of the tapped track afterwards. Seems to be easier with a non weighted keyboard, and it helps to have a good four bars of steady count in (ideally program this before the first "human" take. If the tempo is fast tap in half time, in fact it often works to just tap the first beat of each bar unless the music is exteremely rubato. Pete Thomas www.petethomas.co.uk

On 03 Nov 2004, at 17:02, steven_rowat@... wrote: > In Logic 6: > 1. "write in the tempi by ear/hand into Logic's tempo list." (Per) > 2. "Logic's reclock function... by tapping" (Pete) > > In Logic 7 only: > 3. "Global Tracks - Beat Mapping...for quickly adjusting the tempo" > (Stephen) > > I'd like to get opinions if I can on what the relative differences > are. For > instance, I've heard earlier that the 'tap' function is 'rubbish' (if I > remember the comment correctly). Has anyone had experience with all > three, > and is there one clearly easier to use? Let's not get confused here. Tap Tempo is a FOURTH function which you have not listed above. What you are calling the 'tap' function, which is actually called Reclocking, is a way of syncing Logic to your performance AFTER you have made the performance. Tap tempo is a way of syncing Logic to your tempo WHILE you are doing your performance. It was Tap Tempo that I said was rubbish because I've never used it with any degree of success and that's why I was recommending InTime. What's more, Reclocking and Beat Mapping are in fact the same thing! Beat Mapping in Logic 7 is a more visual way of of reclocking a song and replaces Logic 6's Reclock function. > can I somehow *later* instruct Logic 6 > or 7 (or InTime) to make that original MIDI track the guide tempo, > complete > with tempo changes? Yes! In Logic 7 you can have multiple tempo maps and switch between them easily in the Global Tempo Track. So, for example, if you make your initial performance with InTime as the Master Clock make sure you've got "record tempo changes" enabled in the preferences and you can keep that version of the tempo map to come back to later. However, if you simply want to sync Logic to your performance after you have recorded it there is no need to be investing in InTime as Logic's Reclock (6) or Beat Mapping (7) functions will see you good. Cheers, Stephen. ________________ www.stephband.info

> > can I somehow *later* instruct Logic 6 > > or 7 (or InTime) to make that original MIDI track the guide > > tempo, complete with tempo changes? > > Yes! In Logic 7 you can have multiple tempo maps and switch > between them easily in the Global Tempo Track. So, for example, > if you make your initial performance with InTime as the Master > Clock make sure you've got "record tempo changes" enabled in the > preferences and you can keep that version of the tempo map to come > back to later. > However, if you simply want to sync Logic to your performance after > you have recorded it there is no need to be investing in InTime as > Logic's Reclock (6) or Beat Mapping (7) functions will see you good. Hi again, This is Michael from Circular Logic, developers of InTime. We're working on another program that will work offline to analyze the changing tempo of *recorded* MIDI and digital audio files, and give you a detailed tempo map for reclocking and timing correction. This is different than our current InTime app, because InTime is meant for live performers, for interactive tempo-tracking/beat-matching (although it can be used to a limited degree for offline reclocking/beat-matching). With all this talk of reclocking here, and the various manual methods, I'm wondering how our program might fit in. You'll be able to record without a click and then do two main things: 1) analyze MIDI files and get out a timing-corrected file for correct notation, along with a tempo track of your tempo changes; 2) analyze recorded audio (including non-percussive tracks like violin and horns, and polyphonic tracks), and get a tempo map for any kind of reclocking/beat-matching. This will (at least as we plan it) allow you to reclock tracks more quickly, and work much more easily with longer recordings, and recordings with non-percussive tracks. We're imagining that it will be first available as a standalone app, in which you analyze your track, possibly make corrections and refinements in beat placement, and then import the results into your sequencer. If anyone's interested in letting us know what kind of features this kind of software would need, or what kind of scenarios you imaging using it in, we're very eager to know. Sorry if this might be an innappropriate post, just let me know. Cheers, Michael michael at circular-logic dot com

On 9/11/04 6:59 pm, "mgstauffer" <mstauff@...> wrote: > This is Michael from Circular Logic, developers of InTime. > With all this talk of reclocking here, and the various manual methods, > I'm wondering how our program might fit in. > You'll be able to record without a click and then do two main things: > 1) analyze MIDI files and get out a timing-corrected file for correct > notation, along with a tempo track of your tempo changes; 2) analyze > recorded audio (including non-percussive tracks like violin and > horns, and polyphonic tracks), and get a tempo map for any kind of > reclocking/beat-matching. <snip> > Sorry if this might be an innappropriate post, just let me know. > Cheers, > Michael > michael at circular-logic dot com Well hopefully no one is gonna tell you it's an inappropriate post Michael, cause I for one think this would be a very valuable add on for Logic users that record live musicians. I do both programmed and live band work and although the best drummers I know all love click tracks and tell me what beats they want, where they are to be accented or speed up etc, many other drummers hate using clicks or don't actually know when they are pushing the tempo so can't use a click. Your software would be ideal for working with these kind of bands as I could analyse the drum take and put an tempo map into logic that would then allow the whole track to be "in time" with the clock so that looping for overdubs or programming midi/virtual instrument parts was easy. If your software is gonna work really well then I would need very few features, but in case of problems, a manual "Tap Tempo" override would be useful. If you are gonna try for a "correction" ability then all I would suggest is that you find the best possible algorithms and license them as pitch and time stretching is notoriously detectable. Looking forward to news of your software release - please add me to your mailing list! Gareth

Gareth Henderson <gareth@h...> wrote: > If your software is gonna work really well then I would need very few > features, but in case of problems, a manual "Tap Tempo" override would be > useful. > If you are gonna try for a "correction" ability then all I would suggest is > that you find the best possible algorithms and license them as pitch and > time stretching is notoriously detectable. > Looking forward to news of your software release - please add me to your > mailing list! Hi Gareth, thanks for your interest. Actually, what I meant by "corrections" is the ability to edit the beat placements, ala BeatMapper or ReCycle, if the automatic detection misses something. Having time-strechting capabilities built-in would be useful, but I don't think we'll get to that for the first round. I agree there's a great range in quality of time-stretching algorithms - we'll be sure to try and get the best! I'll put you on our mailing list and we'll be in touch. Cheers, Michael