le 2/04/04 6:41, logic-users@yahoogroups.com à logic-users@...m a écrit : > Just keep asking Apple to add something > similar. Its way overdue. Pretty much essential for film scoring. agreed - the 'chunks' thing, despite its ridiculous name (and bad on-screen aesthetics) is one of the only features of DP that was useful, in the case of working with film. basically all logic would need is a more flexible concept for it's timeline, rather than the single timeline it has per song, now. I disagree that it's essential for film scoring though.. you can just work on separate logic song for each music cue, which is mostly OK to work. the only annoying thing is when you want to watch the film through and see how the cues are working against each other.. in this case, what I do is the same as stephane deschamps said - make a logic 'master song', do a quick offline bounce of your cues and stick them in, then you can see the whole work in progress. sure it some people might find this a drag but it doesn't hinder my process at all, I find that having to load a new song to then sit back and watch the all the cues is a good psychological break for me. the _only_ other thing in DP that logic should have is... mute and record buttons in the arrange that you can click-slide the mouse across to enable.. just like sliding your finger across the mute buttons on a big console. lovely, intuitive, _better_ than logic. sure, ok, you can assign groups and then mute and solo with one click.. but assigning groups itself is cumbersome. it would be so great to be able to group select tracks, and then assign them to a group with one click. or something like that.. oh yeah, and fix all the bugs. regards, antonio gambale

On 04-04-02 11.59, "tonester" <tonester@...> wrote: > the _only_ other thing in DP that logic should have is... mute and record > buttons in the arrange that you can click-slide the mouse across to enable.. > just like sliding your finger across the mute buttons on a big console. > lovely, intuitive, _better_ than logic. sure, ok, you can assign groups and > then mute and solo with one click.. but assigning groups itself is > cumbersome. it would be so great to be able to group select tracks, and > then assign them to a group with one click. or something like that.. > > antonio gambale Here's fully supporting that wish. It's been up for years, BTW. Best wishes Per Boysen -- www.boysen.se www.looproom.com

> the _only_ other thing in DP that logic should have is... mute and record > buttons in the arrange that you can click-slide the mouse across to enable.. > just like sliding your finger across the mute buttons on a big console. > lovely, intuitive, _better_ than logic. Now I remember why my mousing arm has been aching lately... It's little touches of intuition like one that made me procrastinate my move to Logic from DP. Don't get me wrong, I'm addicted to the raw power of Logic, and won't go back, but every day I use Logic, I find something nagging issue that shows the signs of years of neglect. So much of Logic's interface and usability has an "arcane" feel to it - like software I used over a decade ago. Only back then, the inconvenience was somewhat more tolerable, because what the software did was cutting edge - so you could swallow the rough parts because you were grateful the program did the other amazing things it did. Now, after many years of innovation, and so many competitors raising the bar, it gets harder to stomach the crusty, moldy parts of Logic (even if the meat in the sandwich is so lip-smacking good). More things I miss (and wish Logic would adopt so I wouldn't have to): Dragging a plugin from one insert slot to another right on my mixer. Soundbites - though DP can't hold a candle to the audio engine efficiency of Logic when it comes to softsynths and plugins, I still use DP for projects where I'm only tracking audio. I find it so much easier to keep a handle on the hundreds of audio files that spawn from multiple takes and multiple edits. DP's soundfile management and editing is clean, smart, and modern. Logic's is seriously dated - it feels like 1990 every time I have to deal with the audio window or sample editor. Renaming stuff - in DP I can rename 100 tracks in the time it takes me to rename 10 in Logic. Option-click once, and from there on, all you need is to hit enter and the next name in the list is highlighted for you to type. This should be obvious. Matrix Editing - nothing makes my joints ache like playing in the matrix window. I have to do a lot of tweaking to my midi, and most of the time it feels like Logic is fighting my efforts to do so. Clicking the objects in that window is a crapshoot. Sometimes you get what you intended, but not as often as I'd like. This goes for both the midi notes and the hyperdraw data. Doing the same work in DP, you feel like the person who programmed the software was someone who actually had to deal with midi editing himself, and decided to make it smarter. Clippings! - those of you who have used DP know what I mean. This has got to be the secret power of DP for creation. Imagine a magic window that you can drag anything into (and I mean anything you can do in DP - tracks, plugins [with everything tweaked just right], sound files, midi, even entire sequences) and have it at your disposal to place anywhere else. Got a guitar lick you're going to use throughout a project, but not necessarily just within that sequence? Stash it in the clippings window, along with the pile of plugins on its track, and retrieve it later by just dragging it from the window list to wherever you want it - presto, a perfect clone without the annoying "copy plugin settings" or specialized plugin preset banks and formats. Got a band doing 12 songs and every one needs the same drum treatment? Drag it to the clippings window! This one feature spared me from RSI pain countless times. Since moving to Logic, my arm's been hurting a lot more. That's a good sign that my tools are making me work harder than I should have to. The argument for intuitive interfaces isn't just about eye candy and pet peeves. There are real drawbacks to having a program work against you, instead of for you. If it takes me 50 mouse moves to do what takes 3 in another program, then not only am I losing money and time, but I'm going to be sore by the end of the day... (Note - I am NOT trying to starting a DP vs. Logic flame war, I'm just sharing some things that would make me love Logic more than I do already) - Israel Curtis

> agreed - the 'chunks' thing, despite its ridiculous name (and bad on-screen > aesthetics) is one of the only features of DP that was > useful, in the case of working with film. Please. Dp has a lot of really great features the logic lacks. And visa versa. I'd love to see one or the other of them pick up the slack and have everything. And whomever does will end up with my business. It's a long list on each side. Not just one or two things.

>Since moving to Logic, my arm's been hurting a lot more. That's a good sign that my tools >are making me work harder than I should have to. The argument for intuitive interfaces >isn't just about eye candy and pet peeves. There are real drawbacks to having a program >work against you, instead of for you. If it takes me 50 mouse moves to do what takes 3 in >another program, then not only am I losing money and time, but I'm going to be sore by >the end of the day... > It sounds like DP is a nice program. Why switch to Logic? What does Logic do that makes it so attractive. I am not being argumentative here. I am a dedicated Logic user, but have heard mostly great things about DP (I even used it for a short time, but couldn't get it to synch with my workflow). So, what does Logic have that DP doesn't (except the obvious backing of Apple). Kind regards, Dave

> It's little touches of intuition like one that made me procrastinate > my move to Logic from > DP. Don't get me wrong, I'm addicted to the raw power of Logic, and > won't go back, but > every day I use Logic, I find something nagging issue that shows the > signs of years of > neglect. So much of Logic's interface and usability has an "arcane" > feel to it - like software > I used over a decade ago. Amen! I'm totally addicted to logic now too but I sorely miss all the things you mentioned about DP. clippings moving/copying inserts in mixing window fast mixing desk-like soloing and muting take implementation the stereo delay plug and multimode filter! Logics stereo delay doesn't half as good. audio importing, organization Although with Logic I have gained unparalleled stability and speed which I wouldn't trade for anything. at the end of the day I'm much speedier in Logic now because of key commands and the snappy UI. Judson > _________________ Judson Crane Composer . Fluid NYC www.fluidny.com

The way of dealing with "chunks" that I use is to have a "buffer bar" between the various chunks. By adjusting the tempo of this bar I can get the following "chunk" of music to align to the correct time code point, and the bars and beats still line up. It's very clunky and fiddly and inelegant, but it's the only way I can do it without having each "chunk" as a separate song. Ian ------------------------------ Ian G. Morris - Tonewright ian@... www.igmusic.co.nz

Hi Everyone, A while back I posted about my problems with automating third party software synths, like the Arturia Moog Modular and Albino 2. This morning I found out how to do; by recorded midi controller data to midi tracks. But first I had to prepare Logic by opening the midi environment and create a duplicate audio object for each audio object used to host a third party soft synth. Then I cabled the midi instrument to that audio object and opened the midi instrument as arrange tracks to record controller data. With an autoload set up this way the workflow goes like this: 1 Open the synthy plug-in. 2 Click a synth parameter for "midi learn". 3 Move some real-world fader (I'm using a UC-33) to map that controller to the synth. For each synth I then have two tracks in the arrange window. On for recording the notes and another for recording the UC-33 controller data for filters etc. Very handy! I like this set-up because it allows me to cut and loop filter controlling date apart from the musical performance (midi notes). It's kind of funny that it took so much effort to come up with this simple solution that in fact is exactly what we were all doing some five years ago to control outboard midi modules ;-) But with the cool midi learn interfaces of Arturia and Linplug it's so much quicker and more fun today! Best wishes Per Boysen -- www.boysen.se www.looproom.com

My apologies if this has been covered. I did a yahoo search, with no results. Searched the FAQ. Can I simply take a project made in Logic 4.8 and open it in Logic Pro 6? (both in OS9). That is, will all of the softsynths, plugins (and settings), audio region locations, fades, automation, etc open exactly as they were in 4.8? My objective is to open a 4.8 song in 6 and have to do no more! Wishful thinking? Thank you, Dave G4 867MHz, 1.5GB RAM, OS9

> Can I simply take a project made in Logic 4.8 and open it in Logic Pro > 6? (both in OS9). That is, will all of the softsynths, plugins (and > settings), audio region locations, fades, automation, etc open exactly > as they were in 4.8? My objective is to open a 4.8 song in 6 and have > to do no more! Wishful thinking? > G4 867MHz, 1.5GB RAM, OS9 No problem. I'm doing exactly this on the very same machine and config you use. There's one edge to it though. Since the limit for the size of environment macros is fairly low, they changed it somewhere between 4 and 5. Now, i remember the phone line being quite noisy when i told them what to do, and it seems they got me wrong and thus put it even lower ! So some more ambitious macros won't get across and you will be told so when opening the song in v6. Other than that, all is fine. Christian -- homepage http://uk.geocities.com/christianobermaier/home.htm

On Apr 3, 2004, at 6:54 AM, amgshaffer wrote: > My apologies if this has been covered. I did a yahoo search, with no > results. Searched the FAQ. > > Can I simply take a project made in Logic 4.8 and open it in Logic Pro > 6? (both in OS9). That is, will all of the softsynths, plugins (and > settings), audio region locations, fades, automation, etc open exactly > as they were in 4.8? My objective is to open a 4.8 song in 6 and have > to do no more! Wishful thinking? > > Thank you, > Dave > G4 867MHz, 1.5GB RAM, OS9 > > It should be fine. Same OS? G3 www.utopiaparkwaymusic.com Now both Mac OSX and Windows XP... the only way to fly ;-)

On Apr 3, 2004, at 9:59 AM, George Leger III wrote: > > On Apr 3, 2004, at 6:54 AM, amgshaffer wrote: > >> My apologies if this has been covered. I did a yahoo search, with no >> results. Searched the FAQ. >> >> Can I simply take a project made in Logic 4.8 and open it in Logic Pro >> 6? (both in OS9). That is, will all of the softsynths, plugins (and >> settings), audio region locations, fades, automation, etc open exactly >> as they were in 4.8? My objective is to open a 4.8 song in 6 and have >> to do no more! Wishful thinking? >> >> Thank you, >> Dave >> G4 867MHz, 1.5GB RAM, OS9 >> >> > > It should be fine. Same OS? > G3 > I guess I should read better before I fire off and email... YES it should be fine, especially if it's the same OS, and you have all the same plugins... G3 (Just waking up) ww.utopiaparkwaymusic.com Now both Mac OSX and Windows XP... the only way to fly ;-)

amgshaffer <amgshaffer@...> writes: > Can I simply take a project made in Logic 4.8 and > open it in Logic Pro 6? (both in OS9) Yes. The problem is when you go from OS9 to OSX. Logic for OS9 supports VST but Logic for OSX supports AudioUnits, so the 3rd party plugins end up being a pain. Also, in some rare cases, a Macro within Logic 4.x's environment might be too large to exist in Logic5/6 (something as of Logic5 changed, causing the maximum macro size to shrink a bit). f-erenc szabo, smarty pants Z+E+R+O+B+E+A+T "NOW POWERED BY THE MIRACLE OF THE TRANSISTOR!" <http://home.goodmedia.com/~zerobeat>

> It sounds like DP is a nice program. Why switch to Logic? What does > Logic do that makes it so attractive. I switched to Logic because: 1 - I needed better support of my TDM hardware 2 - the UI is WAY faster 3- better support of virtual instruments at the time 4 - more stable (I was getting at least 2-3 crashes a day in DP and I hardly crash at all in Logic. I know some people have crash free DP systems but mine was not. In all honesty if MOTU were to address all of these issues I'd probably switch back, but I don't see any of these things changing except for the virtual instrument thing maybe. Judson _________________ Judson Crane Composer . Fluid NYC www.fluidny.com

Why did I switch from DP? 1. Stability. DP was not -- for me -- as stable as Logic. Logic has bugs, even annoying bugs, but no crashing bugs that I've encountered. 2. OS X. I do everything else (graphics, video, effects, etc) in OS X and don't want to use a program that requires OS 9. Yes, Logic may perform better in OS 9, from what I hear here, but it works fine for me in OS X, so that's what I want. (DP now runs under OS X, but it was the last audio program to make it over and it wasn't rock-solid.) 3. Virtual Instruments. DP includes none and only recently added the ability to support (DP-native) virtual instruments at all. With Logic Pro, the gap widens. 4. Customizability and speed of operation. It may simply be that I never dug deeply into DP, but my experience is that Logic is customizable in every area from appearance of tracks and their content to keystrokes, screensets, etc. Screensets alone are worth the price of admission once you start using them. And many other fast-use navigation features like setting the loop points, various zoom modes, etc. 5. "Momentum" and focus. Before OS X, DP had reasonable updates that each seemed to be worth the cost. Then there was this huge lag. Apple bought emagic and it appears to me that they intend to do the same thing with it that they did with Final Cut Pro in the video arena: drive it hard to provide a Best In Class example program to show off Macs. So I get an impression of MOTU sulking for a while and sitting on their laurels, somewhat as Adobe did with Premier. Final Cut won that battle hands down and I would also bet on Logic in the Audio arena. ("Momentum" would also include, for me, other users switching. My office-mate switched to Logic and having seen what it can do, it made sense for me to switch as well.) 6. Better Arrange window with nicer access to automation (separate tracks for each parameter, etc). I'm sure there are techier reasons for switching, but these are mine. (Favorites I miss from DP would include clippings, the Masterworks tools (3-band compressor, limiter, etc), MIDI channel effect inserts, and the drum editing mode.)

Trying to get a long, audio-only song over. Removed all inserts/plugs-- down to critical vol, Angle, and Radius data from 0S9 surround version. I'd prefer to remain in OBA because I know hyperdraw much better but when I click to move a node in hyperdraw OBA, Logic Pro 6.4.1 quits. Tried moving all track to object automation in a fresh song, turned sample accurate on/off, OSX10.2.8. Maybe I have to go to TBA? Or maybe install OS9/6.4.1 and convert there first? Rob Danielson --