> From: Bob Vandiver <bobv@...> >Ayyeee! Between you and John Pitcairn I have all of "down under" after me. >We are all correct. Yes, it is compression that flattens the dynamics. But >it is normalizing followed by compression followed by aggressive limiting >that completes the flat job. > >Bob Vandiver Bob, normalizing doesn't have to be used to max out a file (although I'm sure it's often used in that manner). You can normalize to -any- level, up or down, further, you can normailze using "peak" or "RMS" values. hw

Now guys, with all this heated discussion breaking loose, I'd be *really* interested if Josh , the original poster, is still on the list and reading this. Possibly not. This might give clues about significance of further efforts of problem solving on this list. Christian ====homepage http://uk.geocities.com/christianobermaier/home.htm ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html

<Admin - please reply privately> Just a quick note to let those who are interested know that I have MOTU's MachFive sampler software for sale on eBay. Hardly used. Only reason I'm selling is because I'm a dyed-in-the-wool LogicTDM user, and MachFive doesn't function as a TDM plug-in with Logic under Mac OS X (it's RTAS). Can still be used as an AU plug-in though. Here's the link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item708729226 Ian ------------------------------ Ian G. Morris - Tonewright ian@... www.igmusic.co.nz

<quotes repositioned and trimmed by admin> christian obermaier <christianobermaier@y...> wrote: > Now guys, with all this heated discussion breaking loose, I'd be > *really* interested if Josh > the original poster, is still on the list and reading this. Possibly not. > > This might give clues about significance of further efforts of >problem solving on this list. Yeah I just did it manually... lots of button clicks but now at least my guitars are all the same relative level across all my songs. By the way, in the marketing literature for "Platinum" when it first came out, the ability to "apply sample edit processes to multpile audio files in a batch" was listed as one of the features. I guess that one never came to reality. J

> Yeah I just did it manually... lots of button clicks but now at least > my guitars are all the same relative level across all my songs. So why didn't you just use a Gainer on the guitar tracks ? Would've been one click to instantiate it and one more to set the gain. Per Song. And, just curious, why did you absolutely need to know within half an hour ? It did sound like an emergency. Christian -- homepage http://uk.geocities.com/christianobermaier/home.htm

> Now guys, with all this heated discussion breaking loose, I'd be *really* > interested if Josh the original poster, is still on the list and reading > this. Possibly not. > This might give clues about significance of further efforts of problem > solving on this list. > > Yeah I just did it manually... lots of button clicks but now at least > > my guitars are all the same relative level across all my songs. > So why didn't you just use a Gainer on the guitar tracks ? Would've been > one click to instantiate it and one more to set the gain. Per Song. > > And, just curious, why did you absolutely need to know within > half an hour ? It did sound like an emergency. Christian, an astute observer might surmise that you're actually rather sheepish over the inaccuracy of your prediction. Paul

Curious about experiences with Logic 6 and Roland VariOs. Preferably on Mac OS 9.2. Thanks. e

<Admin - as this thread has become very OT, please continue privately, or on the OT list> > Christian, an astute observer might surmise that you're actually rather > sheepish over the inaccuracy of your prediction. Yeah, like Konrad Adenauer, who said "Wat kümmert mich mein Jeschwätz von gestern." Which roughly translates into "Why should i care about my blather from yesterday.", but with a thorough Berlin accent. Or would you rather prefer me to stay in grumpy mode forever ? Christian -- homepage http://uk.geocities.com/christianobermaier/home.htm

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, <christianobermaier@y...> wrote: > > Yeah I just did it manually... lots of button clicks but now at least > > my guitars are all the same relative level across all my songs. > > So why didn't you just use a Gainer on the guitar tracks ? Would've been one > click to instantiate it and one more to set the gain. Per Song. Because as I said before, all my "songs" are in one "logic song" so that changes I make to the mix of one song carry over to another song without me having to go through the HELL of importing and transferring environment settings between songs. I could have used automation to just change the track levels between songs, but I was too lazy to do this and the results would have been too subjective. Normalizing is a nice objective way to equalize peak energy levels across multiple sound files. GENERALLY SPEAKING, unless you own a multi-million dollar mastering studio and your tracks were recorded with 10,000 dollar microphones, you will not notice the effect of normalization, especially when it's only by 2-3 db. As a musician in a band, I have many other more important things to worry about. > > And, just curious, why did you absolutely need to know within half an hour ? > It did sound like an emergency. Because I am extremely busy and like to get things done efficiently. I was on my way to mix, and equalizing the track levels across songs was the next item on my list. My car ride to my studio from work is a half hour. Thanks, J

>>> Yeah I just did it manually... lots of button clicks but now >>> at least my guitars are all the same relative level across >>> all my songs. > I could have used automation to just change the track levels > between songs, but I was too lazy to do this I can't link these two statements. Both are from you or aren't they ? > and the results would have been too subjective. Normalizing will make sure each take's loudest click is at 0dBFs. This does not necessarily apply to the rest of the take. Could work with heavily distorted guitar and the like, but then they will be equal in level anyway. > Normalizing is a nice objective way to equalize peak energy levels > across multiple sound files. Peak is not energy. That's the old peak meter vs VU meter debate. Pulling the fader to where it sounds right would be a really fast and subjective (ie. musically right) way. > you will not notice the effect of > normalization, especially when it's only by 2-3 db. When it's only 2-3 dB then why bother normalizing to begin with ? Please explain. > As a musician in > a band, I have many other more important things to worry about. Right. My point exactly. Christian -- homepage http://uk.geocities.com/christianobermaier/home.htm

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, "J" <josh@u...> wrote: > you will not notice the effect of > normalization, especially when it's only by 2-3 db. It's the normalizing (or any resampling process) itself that introduces the quantization error, and so there will be as much error when normalizing by 2-3dB as when normalizing by (say) 20dB. Again, most noticeable in fades, reverb tails, note decays etc. "Safe" normalize amounts in dB, where no quantization error will occur, are 6dB, 12dB, 18dB, 24dB, etc, which are a straight 2x, 4x, 8x (etc) of the sample value, thus there is no problem representing any new sample value at the given resolution. If you avoid the dB scale and look at the actual multiplier, 3x, 5x, 6x, any whole-number value, are also safe (but they don't represent nicely as dB). Not that you care about this of course, but the above information may be useful to anyone searching the list in future. Bonus points for the sensible subject heading... John Pitcairn ------------------------------------------------------------- Logic Control emulation for generic midi controllers: LC Xmu demo: http://www.opuslocus.com/lcxmu/ -------------------------------------------------------------

At 23:19 Uhr +0000 06.03.2004, John Pitcairn wrote: >It's the normalizing (or any resampling process) itself that >introduces the quantization error, and so there will be as much error >when normalizing by 2-3dB as when normalizing by (say) 20dB. Again, >most noticeable in fades, reverb tails, note decays etc. Sorry to resurrect this thread ;-) So, does anyone know at what sampling rate Peak normalizes or applies DSP in general? Also, what would be the best software to do this kind of thing (on the Mac)? From what I understand so far it should: - calculate in 32-bit float - have a good dithering algorithm to save the file to 24-bit - be able to batch process - have good sample rate conversion I am suspecting Barbabatch (http://www.audioease.com) does all that, but at $399 it is rather on the expensive side... I hope this link is correct, as I'm away from the net at the moment but I think I remember them being the ones developing Barbabatch Thanks and cheers Hans