I love using Mach 5's interface. It has it's strengths over EXS, and it's weaknesses. But I find it right for me. In particular, I like the fact that it is multi-timbral in one instance of the plug in. I have Mach 5 successfully set up my environment to take advantage of it's multi timbral functionality by patching a multi-instrument to Mach-5's instrument object. This works like a charm from a midi point of view. But I am still having problems. What I am not understanding is why the mixer faders of the individual sub channels (from this multi-instrument) are "grouped" (permanently linked) with the overall instrument fader (that which the instrument is inserted onto). Don't the sub channel faders generate MIDI volume data? Shouldn't that midi volume data channelize to the corresponding midi channel only? But instead, moving ANY of the sub channel faders also links to the master instrument fader and adjusts the ENTIRE instruments volume (all channels). Due to this oddity, there is no good way to mix the individual sub channels of a multi timbral instrument within Logic. There are volume "pots" within the Mach 5 interface....but they are not automatable parameters inside of logic. So if I want to automate and mix using Logic Control and Logic's mix automation...I seem to be out of luck for multi-timbral use of a Virtual Instrument. Hope that made sense. Am I missing something? Or is this just another quirk of Logic? Thanks for any help or feedback. Ron

> What I am not understanding is why the mixer faders of the individual > sub channels (from this multi-instrument) are "grouped" (permanently > linked) with the overall instrument fader (that which the instrument > is inserted onto). Don't the sub channel faders generate MIDI volume > data? Shouldn't that midi volume data channelize to the > corresponding midi channel only? But instead, moving ANY of the sub > channel faders also links to the master instrument fader and adjusts > the ENTIRE instruments volume (all channels). Due to this oddity, > there is no good way to mix the individual sub channels of a multi > timbral instrument within Logic. I posted more or less the same question just a few hours ago here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/logic-users/message/158539 There must be some way to automate individual channles in multi-timbral VSTIs. Can somone please clue us in? -tia

>> What I am not understanding is why the mixer faders of the individual >> sub channels (from this multi-instrument) are "grouped" (permanently >> linked) with the overall instrument fader (that which the instrument >> is inserted onto). Don't the sub channel faders generate MIDI volume >> data? Shouldn't that midi volume data channelize to the >> corresponding midi channel only? But instead, moving ANY of the sub >> channel faders also links to the master instrument fader and adjusts >> the ENTIRE instruments volume (all channels). Due to this oddity, >> there is no good way to mix the individual sub channels of a multi >> timbral instrument within Logic. > > I posted more or less the same question just a few hours ago here: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/logic-users/message/158539 > > There must be some way to automate individual channles in > multi-timbral VSTIs. Can somone please clue us in? -tia > This is a bug of the plug-in you are using. Best regards Cyril Blanc Independent Quantum Leap Symphony orchestra forum (QLSO) for Mac http://groups.yahoo.com/group/qlso/"; A6 Andromeda forum : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/A6_andromeda/"; Petition : ³Support of the APPLE LaserWriter 300 in MAC OS X² http://www.PetitionOnline.com/Ap1c1/petition.html

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, Cyril Blanc <blanc.cyril@w...> wrote: > This is a bug of the plug-in you are using. No it isn't. The problem is that Logic responds to CC7 and CC10 for main volume and pan control of all Audio objects. So you'd think "OK, so channels 2-15 should be fine, I'll skip channel 1 and use those", but no, Logic pointlessly hijacks those for control of the main channelstrip too. All other CCs are passed through to the softsynth as expected. Personally I think this is kinda dumb. Sure it's there for "backward compatibility" (cough), but it would be far preferable to have a preference in the "compatibility" section of Song Settings that says "use Fader events for audio Volume and Pan", thus enabling the use of CC7/10 for per-channel control of multitimbral softsynth volume and pan, and Fader 7/10 for audio object volume/pan. Some plugins (VSamp) work around this problem by also responding to CC107 and CC110 for multitimbral volume/pan, or allow the control CCs to be reassignable. But MOTU isn't doing anything wrong - they are merely adhering to a very well-established midi spec... John Pitcairn ------------------------------------------------------------- Logic Control emulation for generic midi controllers: LC Xmu demo: http://www.opuslocus.com/lcxmu/ -------------------------------------------------------------

<quotes trimmed by admin> "John Pitcairn" <johnp@r...> wrote: > The problem is that Logic responds to CC7 and CC10 for > main volume and pan control of all Audio objects. So you'd think "OK, > so channels 2-15 should be fine, I'll skip channel 1 and use those", > but no, Logic pointlessly hijacks those for control of the main > channelstrip too. All other CCs are passed through to the softsynth as > expected. > > Personally I think this is kinda dumb. Sure it's there for "backward > compatibility" (cough), but it would be far preferable to have a > preference in the "compatibility" section of Song Settings that says > "use Fader events for audio Volume and Pan", thus enabling the use of > CC7/10 for per-channel control of multitimbral softsynth volume and > pan, and Fader 7/10 for audio object volume/pan. Kontakt and Kontakt Player behave the same way as Mach5 in Logic - the only way I've found to avoid having any of a multi's midi tracks hijack the multi's automation is to completely eliminate ANY cc7 or cc10 in any of the midi tracks feeding a multi instrument. This poses a real limitation on how one can work with such multi's in Logic - as a consequence, I don't use Logic at all when trying to do any work with the NI multi's. Unfortunately, the NI family plugs have the option to use cc7/cc10 only - not 107 and 110, or the like. John's proposed solution seems to be a good one. Trond

The solution will be when Logic supports multiple out´s from AU VI's. Then you can route each channel to it's own bus and control the volume that way. That's how M5 works in DP and I think Logic will support this in v.7 when the AU support gets updated. Peter

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, Peter Graae <list@p...> wrote: > The solution will be when Logic supports multiple out´s from AU VI's. Multi-out from AU instruments works here - VSamp AU... Anyway, that's not a solution, it's a workaround. What if you don't want the hassle of multi-outs for each midi channel of, say, 5 multitimbral softsynth instances (uh-oh, not enough auxes)? How are you going to conveniently control 64 auxes worth of volume/pan from a midi keyboard anyway? What if the softsynth is multitimbral but doesn't support multiple outputs? What if it only supports 8? John Pitcairn ------------------------------------------------------------- Logic Control emulation for generic midi controllers: LC Xmu demo: http://www.opuslocus.com/lcxmu/ -------------------------------------------------------------

The problem is that Logic responds to CC7 and CC10 for > main volume and pan control of all Audio objects. So you'd think "OK, > so channels 2-15 should be fine, I'll skip channel 1 and use those", > but no, Logic pointlessly hijacks those for control of the main > channelstrip too. All other CCs are passed through to the softsynth as > expected. Wow, that's a HUGE bummer. I can't believe I got this far into Logic before noticing that multi-timbal VIs can't be automated! So I guess I have to instantiate a separate Kontakt/M5 for each instrument or use DP for projects that I want to use multi-timbal VIs (most of them). I'm really starting to get the hang of Logic but the list of things it just can't do is growing pretty long. This is yet another BIG advantage DP has over Logic. Lets hope Logic 7 brings some relief.

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, "strobe_tallbot" <strobe_tallbot@y...> wrote: > Wow, that's a HUGE bummer. I can't believe I got this far into Logic > before noticing that multi-timbal VIs can't be automated! If the plugin presents an actual volume/pan control in the plugin window, that can be automated in the usual way, by moving the control with the mouse, or sending the appropriate Fader events, or using a supported external control surface (or LC Xmu). But not via CC7 or CC10. However, as multitimbral plugins tend to present controls for a single channel at a time for simplicity, for those plugins it's still generally impossible to control multiple channels' volumes/pans at once... John Pitcairn ------------------------------------------------------------- Logic Control emulation for generic midi controllers: LC Xmu demo: http://www.opuslocus.com/lcxmu/ -------------------------------------------------------------

> --- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, Cyril Blanc <blanc.cyril@w...> wrote: >> This is a bug of the plug-in you are using. On 3/2/04 11:20 AM, "John Pitcairn" <johnp@...> wrote: > No it isn't. The problem is that Logic responds to CC7 and CC10 for > main volume and pan control of all Audio objects. So you'd think "OK, > so channels 2-15 should be fine, I'll skip channel 1 and use those", > but no, Logic pointlessly hijacks those for control of the main > channelstrip too. All other CCs are passed through to the softsynth as > expected. Some of the plug-ins of NI like SOSTRING SOWIND are not passing the information to the Multi, so it could be fixed Best regards Cyril Blanc Independent Quantum Leap Symphony orchestra forum (QLSO) for Mac http://groups.yahoo.com/group/qlso/"; A6 Andromeda forum : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/A6_andromeda/"; Petition : ³Support of the APPLE LaserWriter 300 in MAC OS X² http://www.PetitionOnline.com/Ap1c1/petition.html