I am not lucky enough, or maybe unlucky enough, to be able to make music as my living, so new features are always cool things to me, at least most of the time. I know it is not that way for people who use this software to make their living, but I was wondering if anyone had heard any talk of what Logic 7 may have to offer? Paul

"Paul Stephenson" <pauls@...> wrote: > I was wondering if anyone had heard > any talk of what Logic 7 may have to offer? Apparently there's the new "Hit Wizard". You enter the range of your vocalist, and a percentage scale of how good your singer is, enter a few lyrics (ooh yeah baby and love are automatically selected), and Logic automatically constructs a song using your available VSTi's, inserts Autotune at the correct key settings, and composes the backing, drums, chords and melody for your next hit song. If you have Vocaloid, you can additionally specify male/female vocals, and Vocaloid will sing the melody and bvox, so you don't even need a singer. You can even run the process in batch mode overnight to wake up to your next three albums worth of hits.... Ben Hall www.benhall.co.uk

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, Paul Stephenson wrote: > I am not lucky enough, or maybe unlucky enough, to be able to make music > as my living, so new features are always cool things to me, at least > most of the time. I know it is not that way for people who use this > software to make their living, but I was wondering if anyone had heard > any talk of what Logic 7 may have to offer? I haven't heard of anything. For Logic 7, though, I hope eMagic ports it from Carbon to Cocoa. I *think* this is the reason why Logic cannot handle files over 2GB in size. /ek http://elektronkind.org/ ---------- An event e's being F realizes e's being G just in case (i) e is F, (ii) e is G, (iii) for all e it is (physically) necessary that if e is F then e is G, and (iv) e's being F explains e's being G. - Basis of Multirealizability

> "Paul Stephenson" <pauls@...> wrote: > >> I was wondering if anyone had heard >> any talk of what Logic 7 may have to offer? "Ben Hall" wrote: > > Apparently there's the new "Hit Wizard". > > You enter the range of your vocalist, and a percentage scale of how good > your singer is, enter a few lyrics (ooh yeah baby and love are automatically > selected), and Logic automatically constructs a song using your available > VSTi's, inserts Autotune at the correct key settings, and composes the > backing, drums, chords and melody for your next hit song. > > If you have Vocaloid, you can additionally specify male/female vocals, and > Vocaloid will sing the melody and bvox, so you don't even need a singer. > > You can even run the process in batch mode overnight to wake up to your next > three albums worth of hits.... You left out the "AutoGrammy" checkbox, on the awards preferences page.

> I was wondering if anyone had heard > any talk of what Logic 7 may have to offer? I'm praying BUG FIXES and NO new features... Michel

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, doubleA <doubleA@m...> wrote: > > I was wondering if anyone had heard > > any talk of what Logic 7 may have to offer? > > I'm praying BUG FIXES and NO new features... > Michel I hope that EVERYONE who reads this board will agree that there should NOT be a Logic 7 until ALL of the bugs in 6 a fixed!!! Chris

> I hope that EVERYONE who reads this board will agree that there > should NOT be a Logic 7 until ALL of the bugs in 6 a fixed!!! Absolutely! Peter --- http://www.merlinsound.de

> --- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, doubleA <doubleA@m...> wrote: >>> I was wondering if anyone had heard >>> any talk of what Logic 7 may have to offer? >> >> I'm praying BUG FIXES and NO new features... >> Michel > > I hope that EVERYONE who reads this board will agree that there > should NOT be a Logic 7 until ALL of the bugs in 6 a fixed!!! > Chris Maybe we should start some sort of petition ? I know there -were- always and there -will- always be bugs but I feel at the moment we've reached a point that it really starts to interfere with people's workflow. I don't mind the occasional workaround but essential stuff in the Automation/ grouping/ matrix-editor is broken at the moment. Michel

At 15:50 Uhr +0100 31.10.2003, doubleA wrote: > > I hope that EVERYONE who reads this board will agree that there >> should NOT be a Logic 7 until ALL of the bugs in 6 a fixed!!! >> Chris > >Maybe we should start some sort of petition ? I know there -were- always and >there -will- always be bugs but I feel at the moment we've reached a point >that it really starts to interfere with people's workflow. I don't mind the >occasional workaround but essential stuff in the Automation/ grouping/ >matrix-editor is broken at the moment. >Michel I couldn't agree more. And I wouldn't even mind paying money just to have the bugs fixed. I mean after all: My nerves and my motivations is worth a lot more than 150 Euros (just to throw in a number). And with 12000 people on this list and god knows how many other that makes pretty good resources to sort this thing out. And: From all my colleagues I know, that the most annoying thing is not that there is a feature that's not there. We can all live with that and improvise our way around it. Hell, that's the beauty and that gives the best ideas. But the real problem are the bugs and the things that slow us down. Lets start that petition! Cheers Hans

Sorry, Logic 7 exists, they are on the Apple timeline of updates you know.

"technodork_2000" <technodork_2000@...> writes: > Sorry, Logic 7 exists, they are on the Apple timeline of updates you know. I've been testing Logic7 since May 2004. f-erenc szabo, smarty pants Z+E+R+O+B+E+A+T "NOW POWERED BY THE MIRACLE OF THE TRANSISTOR!"

On a fine day, 31-10-2003, Peter Duemmler wrote: > > I hope that EVERYONE who reads this board will agree that there >> should NOT be a Logic 7 until ALL of the bugs in 6 a fixed!!! > >Absolutely! I would even be willing to pay the usual upgrade fee for 6 -> 7 if 7 would fix all the bugs and added no new features... -- Hendrik Jan Veenstra h @ k n o w a r e . n l Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

> -----Original Message----- > From: f-erenc szabo [mailto:zerobeat@...] >> I've been testing Logic7 since May 2004. Time dilation effect? Rob Yale

> I hope that EVERYONE who reads this board will agree that there > should NOT be a Logic 7 until ALL of the bugs in 6 a fixed!!! Chris Indeed. Because Steinberg refused to do that, is precisely the reason I dumped Nuendo 2.0 in favour of LAM. Make it solid, and win the everlasting gratitude of the Logic client-base. Rob Yale

At 14:12 Uhr +0100 31.10.2003, Peter Duemmler wrote: > > I hope that EVERYONE who reads this board will agree that there > > should NOT be a Logic 7 until ALL of the bugs in 6 a fixed!!! I've created a poll about this here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/logic-users/polls Let's see what happens I will send the results to Emagic. Cheers Hans

> At 14:12 Uhr +0100 31.10.2003, Peter Duemmler wrote: >>> I hope that EVERYONE who reads this board will agree that there >>> should NOT be a Logic 7 until ALL of the bugs in 6 a fixed!!! > > I've created a poll about this here: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/logic-users/polls > Let's see what happens > I will send the results to Emagic. Thanks Hans, Please everyone, put down your vote ! Michel

On the next upgrade would you rather ... have the bugs fixed ... get new features and accept the long existing bugs Please bring out your vote so we can tell Emagic what we think ! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/logic-users/polls

Peter Duemmler wrote: >>> I hope that EVERYONE who reads this board will agree that there >>> should NOT be a Logic 7 until ALL of the bugs in 6 a fixed!!! And Hans Hafner wrote: > > I've created a poll about this here: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/logic-users/polls > > Let's see what happens > > I will send the results to Emagic. The way the poll states this issue is different than the original remark by Peter Duemmler. One option in the poll basically states that you want to pay for bug fixes (a Logic 7) (or is upgrading say from 6.3 to 6.5 included?). The same opinion is expressed by some people on the list here; it is okay for them to pay for bug fixes. Although I agree in my hart that the bug fixes should have priority over new features right now, there is a somewhat strange message going to Emagic. That message is: it is okay to introduce bug rich software, we will pay for the bugs twice (to buy them first, to solve them later). In my opinion Emagic should give priority to bug fixing. Just like others have expressed it is okay for me to pay for that...and yet I am concerned that paying for bug fixes gives a wrong message. When there is so much work to be done that Emagic needs a Logic 7 to do this (is that the case?) than at least Logic 7 should include some new great features. Especially features being regarded as omissions at this moment (latency compensation?!). Kind regards, Merlin Juliard.

> I would even be willing to pay the usual upgrade fee for 6 -> 7 if 7 > would fix all the bugs and added no new features... Hehe, yep, me too in fact, but i fear this is not how marketing works... Christian

At 15:05 Uhr +0100 01.11.2003, Juliard wrote: >Peter Duemmler wrote: > >>>> I hope that EVERYONE who reads this board will agree that there >>>> should NOT be a Logic 7 until ALL of the bugs in 6 a fixed!!! > >And Hans Hafner wrote: >> > > I've created a poll about this here: snip > > I will send the results to Emagic. > >The way the poll states this issue is different than the original remark by >Peter Duemmler. One option in the poll basically states that you want to >pay for bug fixes (a Logic 7) (or is upgrading say from 6.3 to 6.5 >included?). The same opinion is expressed by some people on the list here; >it is okay for them to pay for bug fixes. Ok, to me (!) the difference between an update an an upgrade is: the first is free the second is paid for. If the wording is too misleading I will start a poll on that and take down the first poll. I think (but that's me) that it's pretty clear what this poll means, but if it is the general consensus it's not, let me know, or start another one that's worded right. Though I foresee the danger of a discussion on semantics. Cheers Hans

>> >> The way the poll states this issue is different than the original remark by >> Peter Duemmler. One option in the poll basically states that you want to >> pay for bug fixes (a Logic 7) (or is upgrading say from 6.3 to 6.5 >> included?). The same opinion is expressed by some people on the list here; >> it is okay for them to pay for bug fixes. > > Ok, to me (!) the difference between an update an an upgrade is: the > first is free the second is paid for. So then I am right that this poll states this issue different than the original remark by Peter Duemmler. He did not want to pay; no logic 7 before the bugs are fixed. > If the wording is too misleading I will start a poll on that and take > down the first poll. The wording is clear (sorry for my confusing 'or is upgrading say from 6.3 to 6.5 included?)-question. But since the wording is clear the main issue of my previous posting ('strange message to Emagic: lets pay for bug fixes') still goes. Best, Merlin Juliard.

How about, we, the 12000 members of this list DON'T upgrade to 7 until the major bugs are fixed! If we'd all stand together we'd have more chance of having what we want. But instead, when 7 is out, we'll all be running to pay for the upgrade, and endure the old bugs and the NEW BIGGER AND BETTER bugs. :: akido w: http://www.akido.biz/ e: groups@... :: configuration is : Powerbook G4 1GHZ, OS X Panther, 1GB RAM, Logic Audio Platinum 6, AMT 8, Mobile I/O 2882, Logic Control, and more...

Juliard wrote: > Peter Duemmler wrote: > >>>> I hope that EVERYONE who reads this board will agree that there >>>> should NOT be a Logic 7 until ALL of the bugs in 6 a fixed!!! > The way the poll states this issue is different than the original > remark by Peter Duemmler. Actually I didn´t write the above at all. That was a misquoting. I just replied to this statement (which was from Hans AFAIR) with "absolutely". Peter --- http://www.merlinsound.de

> And: From all my colleagues I know, that the most annoying thing is not that there is a feature that's not there. We can all live with that and improvise our way around it. Hell, that's the beauty and that gives the best ideas. But the real problem are the bugs and the things that slow us down. I'm in the other camp: I prefer to work around bugs and have the features I desire. The worst for me is the total lack of recording offset capabilities. Add to that the inability to simply nudge a selection of regions by a user-determined amount, and the situation is incredibly frustrating for me at times. With my workflow, it tends to be the lack of features that slows me down more than the bugs. It's my perception that Logic is in a place where eMagic would serve both current and potential customers best by taking a balanced approach. There are bugs which are simply too egregious to not fix asap, and there are really basic, major features missing from the picture. I don't believe there's any reason we should have to choose, eMagic is clever and resourceful enough to make it happen. Take care, u b i k

> It's my perception that Logic is in a place where eMagic would serve > both current and potential customers best by taking a balanced > approach. This is pretty much the status quo. The only way eMagic is going to divert resources away from feature development and into to bug fixes is if users make a big stink. I'm not even sure how that would work though. Are people on the development team even qualified squash bugs? i have dream.... I'd like to see a new-feature cease-fire declared amoung all the daw companies for say, six months while they all fix their respective issues.

> > I would even be willing to pay the usual upgrade fee for 6 -> 7 if 7 > > would fix all the bugs and added no new features... <christianobermaier@y...> wrote: > Hehe, yep, me too in fact, but i fear this is not how marketing works... > > Christian I think Christian is right. Imagine the scenerio...... Steinberg and the other competitors announce a new version of their programs with new features that people have always wanted. Their tagline? 'We make our software more powerful. E-Magic just bugfix' E-Magics tagline 'Introducing Logic 7 as a $99 upgrade. There are no new features, but we've fixed the bugs we know about.' The day after release.....people start posting bugs on LUG. No software is or can be bug free. It'd be nice but...... Regards Stephen Bennett. Composer and sound design. (UK) henry fool & The Fire Thieves www.chaosstudios.co.uk Author of 'The Fast Guide To Logic', 'Making Music with E-Magic Logic Audio (Second edition)' and Emagic Logic Virtual Instruments from http://www.pc-publishing.com Also 'Users' Guide to Logic Audio 5' from Muska and Lipman (US) www.muskalipman.com

> > > I would even be willing to pay the usual upgrade fee for 6 -> 7 >if 7 >> > would fix all the bugs and added no new features... > > <christianobermaier@y...> wrote: > >> Hehe, yep, me too in fact, but i fear this is not how marketing >works... >> >> Christian > >I think Christian is right. > >Imagine the scenerio...... > >Steinberg and the other competitors announce a new version of their >programs with new features that people have always wanted. Their >tagline? 'We make our software more powerful. E-Magic just bugfix' > >E-Magics tagline > >'Introducing Logic 7 as a $99 upgrade. There are no new features, but >we've fixed the bugs we know about.' > >The day after release.....people start posting bugs on LUG. > >No software is or can be bug free. > >It'd be nice but...... Your reasoning sounds right on the money. But wait. Digi Design does almost exactly what you are talking about with PT software and nobody complains. In fact everybody says it is the best at what it does. So I think a period of intense conservatism with the feature updates and hardcore attention to the stability and what I call "professionalism" issue might in fact be a highly effective marketing approach. Why? Because it is the most likely way to draw the top pros to the software and that is always the best way to draw everybody else. So basically I don't see a serious debug version as being such an unmarketable thing as a lot of people make it out to be.

> Digi Design does almost exactly what you are talking about with PT > software and nobody complains. In fact everybody says it is the best > at what it does. I don't think that's the case. Just head over to the DUC. You may find a few people complaining there. There are droves of people moving away from PT. Michael

> I don't think that's the case. Just head over to the DUC. You > may find a few people complaining there. > > There are droves of people moving away from PT. > > Michael Impressions of what is happening in a specific market that have been empirically gathered from reading a list, can be very deceptive. For example; suppose you see posts from 10 people who claim that they're bailing on Digi, it's easy to assume that Digi's star is not quite so high. But in practical terms; every recording studio in Toronto still uses Pro Tools workstations or multiple workstations. All the pros still regard Digi as the standard. So what has changed? Not much. Digi is similar to Apple, in that they institute unpopular policies, and pay no attention to customer grumbling. They surprise everyone with something like Pro Tools HD, and everyone scrambles to buy it. I fear that the majority of people who want all the newest toys are not the professional users. The most important thing for the pros, is that the software not fold at crucial moments. It's a question of professional survival. Rob Yale

> > Digi Design does almost exactly what you are talking about with PT >> software and nobody complains. In fact everybody says it is the best >> at what it does. > >I don't think that's the case. Just head over to the DUC. You may find a few >people complaining there. > >There are droves of people moving away from PT. As a PT User I can tell you for 100% certain that it is more stable than anything native. There may be droves of people moving away from it but there are also droves moving to it and at this point if you tried to run a major professional facility without it you would be laughed out of town precisely because it is the most stable predictable compatible best sounding thing going. It is not because I love digi that I say these things. I don't at all. And I actually want very much to see native prevail but that will never happen until the facts are faced that there are major problems with the all native systems currently available, and those problems are appropriately dealt with.

> > It's my perception that Logic is in a place where eMagic would > > serve both current and potential customers best by taking a > > balanced approach. > This is pretty much the status quo. Is it really? I recognise this is an issue of perspective, and from mine it seems as though Emagic is plowing ahead full-steam with new features, meanwhile new bugs are appearing and old ones are still around. That, to me, is not a balanced approach. FWIW, this same scenario was why I switched from DP a few months ago, I was naive to assume things would be different with Logic. If I'm not mistaken, this is the trend with all the big audio sequencers,and I'm thinking that they're doing it this way because, well, because they can. It's an unfortunate reality in the realm of corporate big business, where the bottom line and zealous competition often swallow up more personal considerations of customer care and ethical marketing. In the states, we developed something called the Uniform Commercial Code, a model law regulating the conduct of business in the marketplace. Most states have adopted it, or something very similar. Under the UCC, all products that go to market have an "implied warranty of fitness for purpose," a fancy way of saying that the thing must do what it claims to do. My impression is that somehow, someway, the computer/ software industry is riding a very shaky line in this regard. Yes, at the end of the day Logic does what it claims, it just does so with some major flaws that cannot be ignored, they must be endured and/or worked around. As a consumer I must vote with my dollar, the problem is that every available option suffers from the same malady, and I can think of no compelling reason why consumers should endure an industry that rushes products to market *long* before they can function as advertised, and then continues to develop and market self-same broken products. Emagic, fix your software, okay? Ignore the beancounters, fuck the naysayers, be brave. You won't lose market share, you won't go under, nothing bad will happen; you will generate an enormous amount of goodwill and set an example for others. It's the right thing to do, so please, just do it. respectfully, u b i k cc: Emagic support