Just installed Panther on G4/400 TiBook and G4DP867. Did the simple follow the prompts install over 10.2. D/Loaded Mobile I/O Public beta for OSX (http://www.spectrafoo.com/MIO/). Had to D/Load most recent OSX software for Unitor8MKII. The upgraded OS did override the Stuffit Expander (freebie version) driver so D/L and re-installed that before I could open a couple of things. Apart from that it appears to be plain sailing. All the plug ins are there (Spectrasonics/Plugsound/Powercore) and seems much "snappier", particularly on the laptop. I'm heading to London for a month with the laptop and will crank it daily so I will endeavour to post any arising issues. PS Expose is fantastically useful and I love the new finder. Mucheasier to navigate. Cheers from the bleeding edge Clive Young LAMP 6.3.1 DPG4 867 1.25 GB DDR SDRAM IBM Deskstar Internal ATA HD Lacie EXT FW 80GB HD Mobile I/O 2882 Unitor8MKII LAMP 6.3.1 G4/400 Tibook 512MB RAM Lacie EXT FW 80GB HD Mobile I/O 2882 Unitor8MKII

Hi everyone, Look out for the Glitch in Panther! http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,61031,00.html/wn_ascii "After upgrading to Mac OS X 10.3, better known as Panther, they are finding external FireWire drives are no longer recognized by the host machine. In many cases, all the data the drives stores are also gone." -- Best wishes Per Boysen www.boysen.se

At 21:56 Uhr +0100 31.10.2003, Per Boysen wrote: >Look out for the Glitch in Panther! > >http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,61031,00.html/wn_ascii > >"After upgrading to Mac OS X 10.3, better known as Panther, they are finding >external FireWire drives are no longer recognized by the host machine. In >many cases, all the data the drives stores are also gone." Great... we'll see what happens with my stuff here next week. But I checked this out while I was there http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,61005,00.html?tw=wn_story_related and now I'm drooling..... :-) Cheers Hans

On Friday, October 31, 2003, at 12:56 PM, Per Boysen wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Look out for the Glitch in Panther! > > http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,61031,00.html/wn_ascii > > "After upgrading to Mac OS X 10.3, better known as Panther, they are > finding > external FireWire drives are no longer recognized by the host machine. > In > many cases, all the data the drives stores are also gone." If I recall, Apple has narrowed it down to Oxford 912 chipsets which are FireWire 800, so FireWire 400 drives should be unaffected. Double check though. Take care Jesse Widener

I believe it's only Firewire 800 Drives that are are affected. This from Apple: http://www.apple.com/macosx/firewire800specialmessage.html Cheers Clive Young

On 10/31/03 4:37 PM, "Clive Young" <witsend@...> wrote: > I believe it's only Firewire 800 Drives that are are affected. > Unfortunately my drive falls in that category. Here is an extensive read and workaround. http://www.macfixit.com/index.php CWB

Per Boysen wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Look out for the Glitch in Panther! > > http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,61031,00.html/wn_ascii > > "After upgrading to Mac OS X 10.3, better known as Panther, they are finding > external FireWire drives are no longer recognized by the host machine. In > many cases, all the data the drives stores are also gone." I've got an external FW drive with Panther and its working fine...rock solid since the upgrade on Friday. What host machine are we talking about here? Mine's a dual boot, dual 1.25 G4, 2 gig memory, Atto card with two cheetahs and the LaCie 200 gig FW drive. JR

> From: Clive Young <witsend@...> > I believe it's only Firewire 800 Drives that are are affected. > > This from > Apple: http://www.apple.com/macosx/firewire800specialmessage.html > > Cheers > Clive Young Some people seem to be having problems with 400 drives as well. I have a LaCie d2 fw800 drive that has has no problems, on two different machines. More info http://www.lacie.com/news/news.htm?id059 Also my drive does not fall within the serial number range that they show problems with, 0133xxxxx -andy

On Friday, October 31, 2003, at 01:18 PM, methinked@... wrote: > If I recall, Apple has narrowed it down to Oxford 912 chipsets which are > FireWire 800, so FireWire 400 drives should be unaffected. Double check > though. Pardon me...Oxford 922 chipsets...and several drive manufacturer's have already released a firmware update. Take care Jesse Widener

<discussion of Panther vs> Firewire headache snipped> > > In > > many cases, all the data the drives stores are also gone." > > If I recall, Apple has narrowed it down to Oxford 912 chipsets which are > FireWire 800, so FireWire 400 drives should be unaffected. Double check > though. Actually it is the Oxford 922 chipsets and I believe the 1.0.2 firmware. More than one manufacturer has the problem, not just LaCie. Bob Vandiver

On 03-10-31 22.37, "Clive Young" <witsend@...> wrote: > I believe it's only Firewire 800 Drives that are are affected. > > This from > Apple: http://www.apple.com/macosx/firewire800specialmessage.html Thanks, Clive. Great and informative link! I'm using a Firewire 800 drive for recording audio, but I don't know if it has "Oxford 922 bridge chip-set with firmware version 1.02". Anyway, I'll back up everything from the Firewire drive to dvd before upgrading to Panther to see what happens. -- Best wishes Per Boysen www.boysen.se

[Admin - while it is of great interest to many members to discuss issues involving Panther since its release, please let's not get too off topic - issues regarding Panther which have at least some relevance to Logic are OK, otherwise, we have the OT list for exactly this type of thing] > Thanks, Clive. Great and informative link! I'm using a Firewire 800 > drive > for recording audio, but I don't know if it has "Oxford 922 bridge > chip-set > with firmware version 1.02". Anyway, I'll back up everything from the > Firewire drive to dvd before upgrading to Panther to see what happens. If you're using a Firewire 800 drive, it has an Oxford 922 chip in it as far as I can tell. Two FW 800 drives I recently got from OWC both have version 1.02. It turns out 1.05 is the current release, but it had just come out in September and I doubt most manufacturers rolled it into their production yet. I've had no trouble myself, but... 1. I made sure the FW 800 drive was off and disconnected while doing the upgrade. 2. The trouble evidently starts at boot time, so as long as you don't boot with it connected, you should be fine. (I've rebooted many times and not had a problem. I still think it has to do with the reboots during the Panther upgrade.) 3. Several manufacturers have patches for the drive's firmware on their sites. This should fix the problem entirely. (Unfortunately, the patches use Java and the Panther upgrade doesn't upgrade Java properly so I can't apply the patch yet. Apple's working on it.)

<subject header added by admin - please use a subject header> Running Logic Platinum 6.3.1, MacOS X 10.3 (though the bug also happened in 10.2). I've had two oddities with virtual instrument playback: 1. Sometimes a note will not playback at all unless: a) I start playback sufficiently far ahead of the sequence that contains it, or b) if the sequence is being played back with Logic in loop mode, the note will not play back the first time through the loop, but will when it comes back around. The problematic notes are NOT the first notes in the sequence. In fact, the sequences usually start with a 2- or 3-note chord, then the problem note plays 2-3 beats into the sequence. 2. EXSP24 does not play notes consistently. I can play back once and the string part has places where new notes jump in, then I play it back again and the string part flows as expected. It also seems that if I'm looping over a part, it often gets worse the more times it loops around. Anyone else see this? Any suggestions?

Is anyone keeping a compendium of suggestions and bug fixes? I'd add: 1. File name lengths. How many times have I edited a sample file and it asked me if I want to make a backup and I said yes, but then it croaks because the base file name is "too long" so it "aborts" the rename process but doesn't abort the sample edit process? I just read in the EXS forum that EXS also has problems with files with names longer than 20 characters or so. 2. Drag-n-drop copying of plugins (complete with settings) in and among mixer channel strips. 3. Reworking of MIDI plumbing so that the I/O insert trick is no longer needed, nor being in play mode. (Possibly have preference or channel strip switch if for some reason the I/O trick is wanted by some.) 4. A "clippings" area where pre-configured channels can be saved/dropped to/from. (I.e. instruments setup complete with effects.) 5. Nameable buses, etc. We can rename most everything, with some glaring exceptions and some inconsistencies. Why not be able to have a bus called "Rhythm Reverb" and referred to that way everywhere? (Maybe you can do this, but I haven't figured out how.) By "inconsistencies" I mean there are some objects that are renameable but some windows/menus refer to them by the new name and some refer to them by the generic name. 6. Allow grab-n-drag to adjust the relative heights of the label/tick area of the measure ruler versus the time/loop area. How many times have I clicked on the ruler meaning to jump in the song when instead I end up turning on looping and then hit play and end up jumping way far away to the last-set loop? 7. Option to zoom centered on the current song position.

On Nov 3, 2003, at 5:00 PM, Wayne Folta wrote: > Is anyone keeping a compendium of suggestions and bug fixes? I'd add: > > 1. File name lengths. How many times have I edited a sample file and it > asked me if I want to make a backup and I said yes, but then it croaks > because the base file name is "too long" so it "aborts" the rename > process but doesn't abort the sample edit process? I just read in the > EXS forum that EXS also has problems with files with names longer than > 20 characters or so. This not really a bug in Logic per se. The actual limit is 31 characters, and the reason for this is that Logic, to retain it's OS9 (Classic) compatibility still uses the Carbon api and not OSX's native GUI api, Cocoa. Converting Logic from Carbon to Cocoa is a fairly laborious task I'd imagine, and doing so may spur eMagic to drop OS9 support in Logic altogether, since they would then have to deal with two different code-bases for the same app: the original Carbon derivative of OS9 and new Cocoa-based one for OSX. But, if we had a Cocoa-ized Logic, we would then have file name limits of 255 characters AND the ability to natively handle file sizes greater than 2GB. Frankly, I wouldn't expect to see this in any 6.x upgrade. /ek http://elektronkind.org/ ---------- An event e's being F realizes e's being G just in case (i) e is F, (ii) e is G, (iii) for all e it is (physically) necessary that if e is F then e is G, and (iv) e's being F explains e's being G. - Basis of Multirealizability

On 3/11/03 23:00, "Wayne Folta" <wfolta@...> wrote: > Is anyone keeping a compendium of suggestions and bug fixes? I'd add: > > 5. Nameable buses, etc. We can rename most everything, with some > glaring exceptions and some inconsistencies. Why not be able to have a > bus called "Rhythm Reverb" and referred to that way everywhere? (Maybe > you can do this, but I haven't figured out how.) By "inconsistencies" I > mean there are some objects that are renameable but some windows/menus > refer to them by the new name and some refer to them by the generic > name. > You can do this in the IO/label menu ! (top audio drop bar - audio configuration - view - IO/label) You can add in the list of bug : - In OS X : give a rank to your serial and USB midi interfaces like in the "Midi setup" menu of Logic OS 9 Best regards Cyril Blanc France Please sign the petition ³Apple to support APPLE LaserWriter 300 in MAC OSX² http://www.PetitionOnline.com/Ap1c1/petition.html If you want to be sure I read your answer leave my name in it ! Spam mails are directly going to trash

>> Is anyone keeping a compendium of suggestions and bug fixes? I'd add: May I add to that: - Fix 'smart snapping' and make it act like it did in Logic 5.x when switched off ! - Fix automation. When dragging multiple chunks in arrange, sometimes the automation moves with it but ends up a few beats earlier or later. - Fix matrix window. When copy- dragging multiple midi channels in one matrix window, I often get a 'cyclic/deep architecture error'. - Fix track grouping. If a number of tracks is grouped and you select the upper track, not all groups are selected with it Michel

On Nov 3, 2003, at 11:04 PM, Cyril Blanc wrote: > You can do this in the IO/label menu ! (top audio drop bar - audio > configuration - view - IO/label) I hadn't noticed this menu, so I went and tried it. Thanks! I found that it does change some things but not others. For example, an instrument's sends now have the label, but if you go to set a track to a bus, you see no name, only "Bus 1". Similarly, the Audio Configuration... listing itself indicates only "Bus 1". A quick look around gives me the impression that only about 20% of the places you see a bus's name actually honor the name change. Basically, they need to rewrite everything, I guess, so when you rename something you see that name everywhere.

On 4/11/03 18:58, "Wayne Folta" <wfolta@...> wrote: > > On Nov 3, 2003, at 11:04 PM, Cyril Blanc wrote: > >> You can do this in the IO/label menu ! (top audio drop bar - audio >> configuration - view - IO/label) > > I hadn't noticed this menu, so I went and tried it. Thanks! > > I found that it does change some things but not others. For example, an > instrument's sends now have the label, but if you go to set a track to > a bus, you see no name, only "Bus 1". Similarly, the Audio > Configuration... listing itself indicates only "Bus 1". A quick look > around gives me the impression that only about 20% of the places you > see a bus's name actually honor the name change. > > Basically, they need to rewrite everything, I guess, so when you rename > something you see that name everywhere. This I/O label menu has a column for the Hardware name of the input. Does not work with my Motu system in 10.2.8. ! I will see before the end of this week if that is due to Jaguar or to Panther on a G5 ! Thanks in advance. Best regards Cyril Blanc France Please sign the petition ³Apple to support APPLE LaserWriter 300 in MAC OS X² http://www.PetitionOnline.com/Ap1c1/petition.html If you want to be sure I read your answer leave my name in it ! Spam mails are directly going to trash

>On Nov 3, 2003, at 11:04 PM, Cyril Blanc wrote: > >> You can do this in the IO/label menu ! (top audio drop bar - audio >> configuration - view - IO/label) > >I hadn't noticed this menu, so I went and tried it. Thanks! > >I found that it does change some things but not others. For example, an >instrument's sends now have the label, but if you go to set a track to >a bus, you see no name, only "Bus 1". Similarly, the Audio >Configuration... listing itself indicates only "Bus 1". A quick look >around gives me the impression that only about 20% of the places you >see a bus's name actually honor the name change. You are right. IMO there should not be even the possibility of two names for a given audio channel or buss, it only causes grief. When you name an object that name should appear on the object itself (not the label below) and it should also appear in all lists that refer to that object. The current system just causes environmental disaster grief confusion, pestilence, and plague. It should also not be possible to have two objects with different names represent the same audio channel or buss. Somebody out there might have a use for it but I have never seen it and for the most part it just screws everyone up. >Basically, they need to rewrite everything, I guess, so when you rename >something you see that name everywhere. Absolutely.

On a fine day, 05-11-2003, Dennis Gunn wrote: >The current system just causes environmental disaster >grief confusion, pestilence, and plague. Hmm.. according to my v4 manual it's only supposed to cause venereal diseases. But I guess that too got wrecked with the v6 upgrade then... -- Hendrik Jan Veenstra h @ k n o w a r e . n l Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, Wayne Folta wrote: > > I found that it does change some things but not others. For > example, an instrument's sends now have the label, but if > you go to set a track to a bus, you see no name, only "Bus 1". > Similarly, the Audio Configuration... listing itself indicates > only "Bus 1". Yep, it's a pain that when you have a few instruments or effects to move about, and have to go to the audio configuration window to do it, all you see are the anonymous channel numbers. So you are thinking, was the bass I wanted to copy that effect to sitting on instrument seventeen or eighteen? 'Cos I don;t normally see the number on the environment mixer channel, 'cos I've given it a nice friendly name like "bass" specifically so I /don't/ have to try to remember channel numbers ... so with AC I end up flipping back and forth between windows just to double-check the numbers. I actually keep a pen and clipboard to hand for this sort of thing (low-tech workaround!). It's especially daft because the AC window (on 5.5.1 at least) has plenty of convenient unused blank space to the left of the instrument numbers where the names could be displayed. I guess they just never got around to doing it. Or figured that instead of finishing that part of the program their time would be more profitably spent on coming up with new products that generate new money. (add it to the list) ========================> Basically, they need to rewrite everything, I guess, so when > you rename something you see that name everywhere. Or, put another way, when they start to implement a new feature they should make some attempt to finish it properly, or at least smooth out some of the gremlins the next time there's a major revision, not just abandon it and move on to the next shiny new project. Since we're now on v5 or 6, by now logic ought to be a smoothed, debugged, highly-polished authoring tool that one could recommend to friends unreservedly, with all the major quirks ironed out. Instead it seems to be picking up new bugs and problems like a snowball rolling down a slope. Maybe v7 will sort out all the old legacy problems, but I actually thought that v6 was supposed to do that. If they are not very careful, some super-bright computery teenager is liable to absorb the OSX techhie manuals and throw together a quick OSX/AU-specific sequencer program that actually has a proper working front end that's not fifteen years out of date, and performs a limited range of basic functions simply and easily and reliably, and new users will probably be better off buying that instead of logic. There's probably lots of sequencer code floating about, its not difficult to write a better sample editor than logic's and most Windows shareware seems to have a better WIMP system. Logic's environment mixer idea is great, but it would be easy to replicate that in a program designed from scratch (which might even implement the idea better). Previously logic wasn't easily "catchable" because a brand new program couldn't hope to compete with logic's support for multiple platforms and multiple formats, but now all that's gone, and if OSX/AU really is as stable and easy to write for as claimed ... well, emagic better be careful. Synth and effects plugins can be bought from third parties, if emagic can't get their basic shell right, eventually people's patience is going to wear out.

Let me add a few more: 1. When I drag-duplicate groups of sounds in a track, it extends the length of the arrangement by that many measures. I then have to go back and drag the right edge back again. 2. When in an audio instrument's notes window (whatever it's called) working on individual notes, if you try to drag the left edge of the sequence from within the window, it gets a funny jerky motion when you're trying to stop on a measure boundary, jittering left and right and making it impossible to hit what you want. It takes several tries usually. 3. Implement contextual menus. 4. A real surround sound system with choices of panners, higher-precision panners, and surround versions of fundamental plugins (compression, reverb, delay). See Digital Performer for an example.

--- Wayne Folta <wfolta@...> wrote: > <subject header added by admin - please use a > subject header> > > Running Logic Platinum 6.3.1, MacOS X 10.3 (though > the bug also > happened in 10.2). > > I've had two oddities with virtual instrument > playback: > > 1. Sometimes a note will not playback at all unless: > a) I start > playback sufficiently far ahead of the sequence that > contains it, or b) > if the sequence is being played back with Logic in > loop mode, the note > will not play back the first time through the loop, > but will when it > comes back around. > > The problematic notes are NOT the first notes in the > sequence. In fact, > the sequences usually start with a 2- or 3-note > chord, then the problem > note plays 2-3 beats into the sequence. > > 2. EXSP24 does not play notes consistently. I can > play back once and > the string part has places where new notes jump in, > then I play it back > again and the string part flows as expected. It also > seems that if I'm > looping over a part, it often gets worse the more > times it loops > around. > I have this problem with looping in Logic 6.1.1, OS 9.2.1 regardless of use of audio instruments or my midi keyboards/modules. -Michele Hobbs __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree

In addition to the long and growing list that's been given so far, I had a disaster tonight, partially caused by Logic's ridiculous, laughable, amateurish surround-sound implementation. This brings two bugs freshly to my mind: 1. Logic can't seem to figure out that it can't save previews to certain file formats. It will bug you every stinking time you open the project as it dutifully runs through every stinking sample and informs you that you don't have permissions (yeah, right) and returns an error -5000. (Fixed this by wading through the dozens of "OK" warnings and then doing a copy/convert of all audio files.) 2. The current surround sound capabilities should be classified as a large set of related bugs. The workarounds required to accomplish anything, the poor quality of tools (thinking panners here,) and the total lack of surround-capable effects leaves me with no choice but to call it a bug instead of a 10%-implemented "feature".

At 19:59 Uhr -0500 on 09.11.2003 Wayne Folta wrote: >1. Logic can't seem to figure out that it can't save previews to >certain file formats. It will bug you every stinking time you open the >project as it dutifully runs through every stinking sample and informs >you that you don't have permissions (yeah, right) and returns an error >-5000. (Fixed this by wading through the dozens of "OK" warnings and >then doing a copy/convert of all audio files.) When you make a finder copy from an audio CD (say a sampling CD) the files will be "read only". If you go to the Finder and do a Get Info on the folder holding these files, you can change all their permissions at once. -- ...peep peep peep peep bleep bleep bleep blib... Canine ----------------------------------------------------------------------- canine_at_waf80_dot_de good night europe. <your name here> http://www.waf80.de/canine -----------------------------------------------------------------------

On Nov 10, 2003, at 9:55 AM, K9 Kai Niggemann wrote: > When you make a finder copy from an audio CD (say a sampling CD) the > files will be "read only". > > If you go to the Finder and do a Get Info on the folder holding these > files, you can change all their permissions at once. That's the first thing I checked, since it referred to permissions. I must've not read the info correctly because as far as I could tell from looking at it, the files were read/write and owned by me. I even tried using the sample editor's copy function in case that would make a difference. The thing that finally worked was a copy-n-convert. In any case, maybe I don't want a program automatically writing to my files for whatever reason. (Recently, for example, I lost six samples because the Phatmatik Pro demo got confused with Apple's Soundtrack files and wrote garbage to them, destroying them.) Everything works even when it can't write the preview. And it's always an option to have a dialog come up saying, "This file is apparently write-protected and a preview cannot be written. This will slow down loading next time. Do you want me to: a) attempt to change the file's permission then write, b) make a copy of the file and use the copy instead, c) save the preview in the current project (making it larger), or d) regenerate the file's preview every time the project's opened (slower)."

On Nov 10, 2003, at 9:55 AM, K9 Kai Niggemann wrote: > When you make a finder copy from an audio CD (say a sampling CD) the > files will be "read only". > > If you go to the Finder and do a Get Info on the folder holding these > files, you can change all their permissions at once. That's the first thing I checked, since it referred to permissions. I must've not read the info correctly because as far as I could tell from looking at it, the files were read/write and owned by me. I even tried using the sample editor's copy function in case that would make a difference. The thing that finally worked was a copy-n-convert. In any case, maybe I don't want a program automatically writing to my files for whatever reason. (Recently, for example, I lost six samples because the Phatmatik Pro demo got confused with Apple's Soundtrack files and wrote garbage to them, destroying them.) Everything works even when it can't write the preview. And it's always an option to have a dialog come up saying, "This file is apparently write-protected and a preview cannot be written. This will slow down loading next time. Do you want me to: a) attempt to change the file's permission then write, b) make a copy of the file and use the copy instead, c) save the preview in the current project (making it larger), or d) regenerate the file's preview every time the project's opened (slower)."