Greetings, I need you guys help, Once I've recorded a midi track in Logic, is it possible afterwards to change only the velocity of a note via my midi keyboard without affecting its pitch? The ideal situation would be for me to select the first note I want to edit and then by pressing a key on my midi keyboard, the note on the track will take the velocity of the key I've just pressed (the pitch would remain unchanged!). The program would then select and point to the next note for me to edit and so on, so forth... That way I could apply my own velocity values via keyboard to the recorded track without erasing the original pitches. I'm aware that it's possible to create a new track just below the recorded selected one and record the modulation wheel, pitchbend changes and other controllers and then merge (glue) the 2 tracks together. But I did find anything for changing the velocity of notes without affecting its pitches via a midi keyboard. I've tried to fool around w/ this by inserting a transformer but to no avail… I'm using LAP 5.5. Any clues? Thank you in advance for your help. JHanks.

On a fine day, 31-03-2003, jhanks007 wrote: >Once I've recorded a midi track in Logic, is it possible afterwards >to change only the velocity of a note via my midi keyboard without >affecting its pitch? > >The ideal situation would be for me to select the first note I want >to edit and then by pressing a key on my midi keyboard, the note on >the track will take the velocity of the key I've just pressed (the >pitch would remain unchanged!). No, this can't be done. If you would use some environment patch, it needs to get the note as input, and simply selecting the note will not do that. Besides, an environment patch can't tell a track something like "remove this note and replace it by that one with another velocity". >I've tried to fool around w/ this by inserting a transformer but to >no avail… Correct, since a transformer needs to get actual input. I.e. if you assign the track to a transformer, and then hit play, the transformer gets the ntoes as input, You can then have a patch that outputs the same notes with a different velocity for example. But just clicking a note and have it replaced by the smae one with different velocity is impossible. To be honest, I can't think of any way you could get this happening.... -- Hendrik Jan Veenstra <h@...> Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

>No, this can't be done. If you would use some environment patch, it >needs to get the note as input, and simply selecting the note will >not do that. Besides, an environment patch can't tell a track >something like "remove this note and replace it by that one with >another velocity". >>I've tried to fool around w/ this by inserting a transformer but to >>no avail. >Correct, since a transformer needs to get actual input. I.e. if you >assign the track to a transformer, and then hit play, the transformer >gets the ntoes as input, You can then have a patch that outputs the >same notes with a different velocity for example. But just clicking >a note and have it replaced by the smae one with different velocity >is impossible. To be honest, I can't think of any way you could get >this happening.... There could be a workaround (but not what orig. poster wants exactly) by routing the recorded track to the transformer.. route incoming information from the keyboard too, trasnsform note vel. info into something else (like Mod.Wheel) so that you have coming as a different info to transformer, and apply mod.wheel value to Vel. value.. and somehow record the output of transformer... It's not a step-by-step guide, sorry, can't try and make it all in Logic now, but you could somehow figure it up .. or Hendrik will see a way with this info ;-) But IMHO I wouldn't mess with all that and just either record it right at first (your keyboard is velocity-sens., right ?).. Or/and edit the velocity in Matrix afterwards to correct some notes.. Doing it in several steps somehow gets it all further from "music"... Ray. DIGITAL ILLUSIONS.

On a fine day, 01-04-2003, RayMaxer wrote: > >No, this can't be done. If you would use some environment patch, it >>needs to get the note as input, and simply selecting the note will >>not do that. Besides, an environment patch can't tell a track >>something like "remove this note and replace it by that one with > >another velocity". >[...] > >There could be a workaround (but not what orig. poster wants exactly) by >routing the recorded track to the transformer.. >route incoming information from the keyboard too, trasnsform note vel. info >into something else (like Mod.Wheel) so that you have coming as a different >info to transformer, and apply mod.wheel value to Vel. value.. and somehow >record the output of transformer... Yeah, I'd been thinking along these lines as well, but there's a big drawback to this approach: if you play back the track, the new velocity info has to be present right at the moment a note starts. That means that you have to play the "velocity controller" just a bit ahead of the notes whose velocity you want to change. Now I don't know about you, but I would surely mess things up if I had to play the keyboard just to control velocity, and had to play it a fraction ahead of the notes... >It's not a step-by-step guide, sorry, can't try and make it all in Logic >now, but you could somehow figure it up .. or Hendrik will see a way with >this info ;-) Right, yeah :-). Actually it would be extremely easy to make, but not something you'd like to actually use probably. >But IMHO I wouldn't mess with all that and just either record it right at >first (your keyboard is velocity-sens., right ?).. >Or/and edit the velocity in Matrix afterwards to correct some notes.. >Doing it in several steps somehow gets it all further from "music"... Agreed. -- Hendrik Jan Veenstra <h@...> Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, Hendrik Jan Veenstra <h@k...> wrote: > Yeah, I'd been thinking along these lines as well, but there's a big > drawback to this approach: if you play back the track, the new > velocity info has to be present right at the moment a note starts. Lurching off into insane workaround land here ... playback the sequence on a transformer track ... convert note # to meta 127 ... route to another transformer & store the note # playback as transformer operation -1- ... also copy note to a meta 52 event to stop the sequencer ... now play a note at correct velocity on your keyboard while stopped ... store that as transformer operation -2- ... when velocity is correct (route to instrument object for audible feedback), play a designated "trigger" note ... copy that, convert to midi remote command for "record toggle", route back to Physical Input ... also route trigger note through transformers to convert to note # & velocity as stored ... route to sequencer input & record to separate (selected) track ... hit play ... repeat for next note ... phew ... John Pitcairn ------------------------------------------------------------------ Midi controller learn in Logic. Soft takeover. Lots of memories. Tracks remember control assignments. Write track automation. Fadermapper environment demo: http://www.revolver.co.nz/fadermapper/ ------------------------------------------------------------------

On a fine day, 01-04-2003, John Pitcairn wrote: >--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, Hendrik Jan Veenstra <h@k...> wrote: >> Yeah, I'd been thinking along these lines as well, but there's a big >> drawback to this approach: if you play back the track, the new >> velocity info has to be present right at the moment a note starts. > >Lurching off into insane workaround land here ... playback the >sequence on a transformer track ... convert note # to meta 127 ... >route to another transformer & store the note # playback as >transformer operation -1- ... also copy note to a meta 52 event to >stop the sequencer ... now play a note at correct velocity on your >keyboard while stopped ... store that as transformer operation -2- ... >when velocity is correct (route to instrument object for audible >feedback), play a designated "trigger" note ... copy that, convert to >midi remote command for "record toggle", route back to Physical Input >... also route trigger note through transformers to convert to note # >& velocity as stored ... route to sequencer input & record to separate >(selected) track ... hit play ... repeat for next note ... phew ... ROTFL!!!!! This is f'ing wonderful :-) Better than stand-up comedy... OK John, you get today's prize for "absolutely most brilliant yet completely insane idea of the day". And todays prize is <drum roll>... a pack of not one, not two... not even three, but four (yes, four!) free transformers... and not only that, but because today is Tuesday, you get a bag with one hundred extra long environment cables as well!!! One drawback though: by the time you got this patch set-up, you could probably have hand-edited velocities for quite a couple of tracks :-). -- Hendrik Jan Veenstra <h@...> Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

On a fine day, 01-04-2003, John Pitcairn wrote: >midi remote command for "record toggle", route back to Physical Input Uhm, one more remark: this didn't work anymore since LA5.5, did it? -- Hendrik Jan Veenstra <h@...> Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

I used to use a little Roland MC500 as my sequencer. It had a really cool feature in which one could in real time change note velocities for a sequence (one track at a time) by the instantaneous position of the modulation wheel. This made kettle drum crescendos a snap, for example. Can something like this be done in Logic? Bob Vandiver

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, Hendrik Jan Veenstra <h@k...> wrote: > Uhm, one more remark: this didn't work anymore since LA5.5, did it? It does if there's a real midi message arriving at the same time which eventually generates the remote command - ie the played note which is copied to record toggle. But it no longer works for messages which are solely internally generated - thus the need to copy the track playback note to meta 52 to stop playback, instead of using the midi remote for "stop". Seems like it might be a useful patch - I'd build it, except the house has just been painted & half my gear is at a friend's place, the rest is piled up in the spare room, so no midi here for a few days yet... John Pitcairn ------------------------------------------------------------------ Midi controller learn in Logic. Soft takeover. Lots of memories. Tracks remember control assignments. Write track automation. Fadermapper environment demo: http://www.revolver.co.nz/fadermapper/ ------------------------------------------------------------------

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, Hendrik Jan Veenstra <h@k...> wrote: > ROTFL!!!!! This is f'ing wonderful :-) Better than stand-up > comedy... OK John, you get today's prize for "absolutely most > brilliant yet completely insane idea of the day". And todays prize > is <drum roll>... a pack of not one, not two... not even three, but > four (yes, four!) free transformers... and not only that, but because > today is Tuesday, you get a bag with one hundred extra long > environment cables as well!!! What makes me a bit sad about this thread is that the abilty to edit velocity via midi without affecting the note pitch is built right into Cubase.. no muss.. no fuss.....right there in the editor. Exactly how the person who asked the question wanted to do it Very handy for drum editing. This is NOT a Cubase Vs. Logic comment.... I'm just wondering why this ability isn't included in Logic... Danny

> a really cool feature in which one could in > real time change note velocities > for a sequence (one track at a time) > by the instantaneous position of > the modulation wheel. Can something > like this be done in Logic? Have a look at http://www.swiftkick.com/lugenv/midi/expressr.zip Christian

I simply can't believe this can't be done in Logic!!! The reason why I've brought up this because I was doing a work for a client that is using Cubase SX as his sequencer. (Although I'm a Logic user, I've also purchased a copy of SX that I've running in one of my wintel machine in my studio for some of my clients. It makes easier for us to communicate, at times...) In the score editor in SX w/ 1 simple click of the mouse we could trigger a function that allowed us to alter only the velocity via midi keyboard and then w/ another click we could easily edit the pitch only without affecting the velocity this time as I've described in this thread. This simple function makes midi editing a breathe w/ a keyboard! Of course, it's much better to record in real time, I do this all the time, in Logic, it's obvious! but for quick editing or for a very difficult passage/ or drums, it's very quick and very easy to humanize. Thks John for your proposed work around..., gulp! Eli, I've tried as well what you've suggested, but as you've said it does alter both pitch and velocity. It's very close though! we're almost there. I think that a similar function needs to be implemented in a future version of Logic IMHO. What do you guys think? Thanks all of you for taking the time to reply. If any of you, have a new revelation about this, by any means, please share. Like I've said, I've hard time believing that this can't be done in Logic. Not "my" Logic! C'mon!!! lol! Anyway, I'm going to hit the transformers one more time in the next few days, we'll see... Best regards, JHanks.

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, "christianobermaier" <christianobermaier@y...> wrote: > > a really cool feature in which one could in > > real time change note velocities > > for a sequence (one track at a time) > > by the instantaneous position of > > the modulation wheel. Can something > > like this be done in Logic? > > Have a look at > > http://www.swiftkick.com/lugenv/midi/expressr.zip > > Christian Thanks! Bob

On a fine day, 01-04-2003, jhanks007 wrote: >Eli, I've tried as well what you've suggested, but as you've said it >does alter both pitch and velocity. It's very close though! we're >almost there. Now that Eli has revealed the mysteries of the MIDI-in button, it's possible to have a simpler patch (compared to John's... uhm... "solution... :-) as a workaround. Whenever you click a note in Matrix (or Event list), the note is played... So you could feed that note back into an environment patch that stores either the pitch or velocity info (depending on what you want). A new note arriving at the Physical Input (i.e. being played by you) is then set to use the correct pitch (or velo) and then forwarded it the To Sequencer object. Pretty simple to make probably. The only drawback is that it requires some cabling -- probably involving having to assign the drum track to the patch instead of the drum machine directly, etc. Not completely straightforward, but do-able imo. >I think that a similar function needs to be implemented in a future >version of Logic IMHO. What do you guys think? Never felt the need to have such a function, but that could be me... -- Hendrik Jan Veenstra <h@...> Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

On a fine day, 01-04-2003, John Pitcairn wrote: >--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, Hendrik Jan Veenstra <h@k...> wrote: >> Uhm, one more remark: this didn't work anymore since LA5.5, did it? > >It does if there's a real midi message arriving at the same time which >eventually generates the remote command - ie the played note which is >copied to record toggle. Not sure if I get this... You have the note-on coming in, convert it to record-toggle, and send it back into the PhysIn. That's not "at the same time" is it? I don't understand why this would work... Probably should try it myself, if only I had them time... -- Hendrik Jan Veenstra <h@...> Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

> > > a really cool feature in which one could in > > > real time change note velocities > > > for a sequence (one track at a time) > > > by the instantaneous position of > > > the modulation wheel. Can something > > > like this be done in Logic? > > > > Have a look at > > http://www.swiftkick.com/lugenv/midi/expressr.zip > > Christian The only other thing I could think of that would come close (but still not the solution the person who originally posted was looking for) is too draw the velocities in the hyperdraw of the arrange window.

At 10:11 AM +0200 4/2/03, Hendrik Jan Veenstra wrote: >Now that Eli has revealed the mysteries of the MIDI-in button, it's >possible to have a simpler patch (compared to John's... uhm... >"solution... :-) as a workaround. Whenever you click a note in >Matrix (or Event list), the note is played... So you could feed that >note back into an environment patch that stores either the pitch or >velocity info (depending on what you want). A new note arriving at >the Physical Input (i.e. being played by you) is then set to use the >correct pitch (or velo) and then forwarded it the To Sequencer object. >Pretty simple to make probably. The only drawback is that it requires >some cabling -- probably involving having to assign the drum track to >the patch instead of the drum machine directly, etc. Not completely >straightforward, but do-able imo. I don't think that will work (at least I've never been able to get it to) because the MIDI edit input comes directly from the Physical Input and is not accessible for processing before it affects the target note. Actually, I've been wanting this feature for years - including the automatic-step feature - and I've never found a satisfactory way around it. Len www.Swiftkick.com

> > > http://www.swiftkick.com/lugenv/midi/expressr.zip > still not the solution the person who > originally posted was looking for Why would Expressor not be exactly what he wanted ? Christian

On a fine day, 02-04-2003, Len Sasso wrote: >At 10:11 AM +0200 4/2/03, Hendrik Jan Veenstra wrote: >>Now that Eli has revealed the mysteries of the MIDI-in button, it's >>possible to have a simpler patch (compared to John's... uhm... >>"solution... :-) as a workaround. Whenever you click a note in >>Matrix (or Event list), the note is played... So you could feed that > >note back into an environment patch that stores either the pitch or >[...] > >I don't think that will work (at least I've never been able to get it >to) because the MIDI edit input comes directly from the Physical >Input and is not accessible for processing before it affects the >target note. Ai, bummer... That's my second good idea in a week down the drain :-( Anyway, on;y later I realised that even if it were possible, it would stil be a hassle since you'd need 2 inputs to distinguish between notes from the matrix being played and external notes that should determine velo/pitch. So either stuff has to be on specific channels and then you could build a macro that distinguishes note-source by channel, or you'd have to use an un-macro-ized patch with 2 inputs. Both not very neat... >Actually, I've been wanting this feature for years - including the >automatic-step feature - and I've never found a satisfactory way >around it. Well, that's one less problem to solve then :-) -- Hendrik Jan Veenstra <h@...> Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/