Greetings, The chronology of how this whole OS X/emagic development is becoming very frustrating! Apple buys emagic, and Apple's agenda is to push users away from OS9 and into OS X. So emagic abandons vst in Logic6 for OS X, prompting everyone to scream "when will all my plug-ins be available in AU format, so I can finally make the switch to OS X once and for all"? So finally it looks like most plug-in developers are getting on board, and there might even be a vst-->AU wrapper for those few that won't make the switch. Everything is looking positive, and migrating to OS X is starting to look like a real possibililty in the not-to-distant future. But meanwhile, there is one disappointing straggler; one important piece of software that you'd think would've been adapted for OS X early on; one title that would still prevent many users from taking the final step and say goodbye to OS9, despite the willingness of vsti developers to get on board: ***Emagic, what are your intentions regarding SoundDiver for OS X??*** It's time to officially state your intentions, and inform your loyal user base about SoundDiver's future or lack thereof. I have to assume that you realize that if you announce your willinginess to release it under OS X, that customers would still buy it under OS9, assured that the value of their investment will carry over into the future. We're tiring of responses like, "Please understand that I can't disclose info on future Emagic releases." Please state your intentions as soon as possible. (Michael, I realize that you can't respond to this. Please just forward this to the appropriate emagic executive.) Regards, -Mark

[Note from admin: guys, please remember anything that's OSX specific is LAM nto GEN, thanks.. And please remember we do have a dedicated SoundDiver list at SoundDiver-Users@yahoogroups.com] > migrating to OS X is starting to look like a real > possibililty in the not-to-distant future. But meanwhile, there is one > disappointing straggler; one important piece of software that you'd think > would've been adapted for OS X early on; one title that would still prevent > many users from taking the final step and say goodbye to OS9, despite the > willingness of vsti developers to get on board: > ***Emagic, what are your intentions regarding SoundDiver for OS X??*** It's > time to officially state your intentions, and inform your loyal user base > about SoundDiver's future or lack thereof. I have to assume that you realize > that if you announce your willinginess to release it under OS X, that > customers would still buy it under OS9, assured that the value of their > investment will carry over into the future. > We're tiring of responses like, "Please understand that I can't disclose > info on future Emagic releases." Please state your intentions as soon as > possible. (Michael, I realize that you can't respond to this. Please just > forward this to the appropriate emagic executive.) I agree 100% with you. Moreover, I think it is absolutely outrageous that a software company (Emagic) owned by Apple has failed to issue all of its products for OSX. It is my understanding that one of the reasons that all the new Macs cannot be booted with OS9 is to encourage/insist that all software manufacturers that make software for Macs develop versions that will work on OSX. If this is the case, it is very hypocritcal for Apple to own a company (Emagic) that has FAILED TO MEET THEIR OWN MANDATE. Additionally, owing to the fact that the transistion from OS9 to OSX for many of the products that we are using to make music has been complicated by the fact that so many of the products we use (Sound Diver etc) are not compatible with OSX, I think that Apple has made a VERY BIG MISTAKE in selling new Macs that will only boot OSX. I would have bought a new Mac (1.42) this winter if I could boot into 9 with it, but because I cannot, Apple is losing a sale (and probably lots of sales from other persons who are in the same position as I ) Finally, although the Emagic moderators have stated that the reason they have not been able to provide Sound Diver users with an answer on this issue is because of Apple Policy which precludes the disclosure of products in development until they are 30 days away from release, I am of the opinion that there are situations (such as the status of Sound Diver) in which it is appropriated to deviate from standard policy. It is very unprofessional to keep loyal users of your products in the dark with regards to its development for OSX especially in light of the fact that Apple no longer manufactures computers that boot OS9. Instead of falling back on the "I'm just following orders/policy" standpoint, perhaps someone at Emagic should have a discussion with the powers that be at Apple and explain to them why Apple's policy is inappropriate in this situation, and request permission to deviate from the status quo. daviscremar@...

>***Emagic, what are your intentions regarding SoundDiver for OS X??*** <WildSpeculation> I personally wouldn't be surprised to see this rolled into MIDI Setup Assistant. SoundDiver fits more of an iApp niche than a ProApp one. Could be announced at WWDC in June as a part of Panther? </WildSpeculation> Cheers, -Josh Emmons

At 05:48 PM 3/27/2003 -0500, you wrote: >SoundDiver fits more of an iApp niche than a ProApp one. You're kidding right? If anything it's too pro to have a big enough marketplace. That's probably the hold up, not big enough user base to put a big priority on it. Unfortunately that makes it hard on a lot of hardcore programmers. Colin Miller

>>***Emagic, what are your intentions regarding SoundDiver for OS X??*** Joshua S Emmons wrote: > <WildSpeculation> > I personally wouldn't be surprised to see this rolled into MIDI Setup > Assistant. SoundDiver fits more of an iApp niche than a ProApp one. > Could be announced at WWDC in June as a part of Panther? > </WildSpeculation> An iApp?? I hardly think so! Sounddiver in my opinion is definately a pro type of app. Especially when one has an ungodly large synth collection and keeps the multitudes of patches and whatnot organized this way. Although it would be nice if it were to become part of the Midi Setup Assistant, id be kinda mad since everyone and myself paid about $150 for it, and now all of sudden its a free downloadable iApp. The scope of Sounddiver is way beyond the everyday home users needs.

Joshua S Emmons <skia@...> writes: >I personally wouldn't be surprised to see this rolled into MIDI Setup >Assistant. SoundDiver fits more of an iApp niche than a ProApp one. >Could be announced at WWDC in June as a part of Panther? I think 100% the opposite is likely. SoundDiver is probably more "pro" than Logic itself, in terms of market. In other words, I'd estimate that a higher proportion of SoundDiver users are professionals compared to that ratio with Logic users. It's just a much more specialized application, which doesn't appeal as much to the hobbyist (who tend not to have lots of MIDI gear that would merit SoundDiver in the first place). f-erenc szabo, smarty pants Z+E+R+O+B+E+A+T "NOW POWERED BY THE MIRACLE OF THE TRANSISTOR!"

[Note from admin: If anyone wishes to continue this thread please do so in our dedicated SoundDiver list, SoundDiver-Users@yahoogroups.com ... Thanks] > An iApp?? I hardly think so! Sounddiver in my opinion is definately a > pro type of app. <snip> > The scope of Sounddiver is way beyond the everyday home users needs. Except that Apple is trying to change what "everyday home users" need. A very capable DV editing and effects package is hardly what I would have called something your everyday user needs. And yet, now your average joe is plopping out DVDs of the family vacation. iDVD would have been considered a pro app a few years ago, but with so many people making movies (with iMovie) a niche opened up for it. In the same way, the moment that Apple releases any sort of audio/MIDI iApp for making music, something like SoundDiver will be required or else all these new music neophytes will be unable to manage their hardware. At any rate, whether an iApp music program is released or not, SoundDiver is an app that supports something (and does a great job at it!) but doesn't really DO anything itself. Apple products are all geared toward PRODUCING something (I can't think of any exceptions, but I welcome them if anyone can think of one). What do you produce with SoundDiver? Consumer, prosumer, or whatever, Apple will have a hard time positioning SoundDiver as a stand-alone product and thus, I predict, will roll it into something else. Maybe Panther... or maybe Logic6.5! :) Cheers, -Josh Emmons

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, "daviscremar" <daviscremar@h...> wrote: > > ***Emagic, what are your intentions regarding SoundDiver for OS X??*** > snip > I agree 100% with you. Moreover, I think it is absolutely > outrageous that a software company (Emagic) owned by Apple > has failed to issue all of its products for OSX. It is my > understanding that one of the reasons that all the new Macs > cannot be booted with OS9 is to encourage/insist that all > software manufacturers that make software for Macs develop > versions that will work on OSX. If this is the case, it is very > hypocritcal for Apple to own a company (Emagic) that has > FAILED TO MEET THEIR OWN MANDATE. > snip I've got a new FW800 DP 1.25 GHz that boots OS X only. I can run SoundDiver in classic mode, but not at the same time as Logic. This makes it very difficult to edit patches, and compose music as I have to keep shutting down either app to access the other. Then sometimes, I have to reboot to get either one to work! I called Emagic, and asked when SoundDiver will be released for OS X and the guy said, "That's one of 2 products I wouldn't suggest buying right now; I don't have any information on SoundDiver for OS X". This won't do. I feel very betrayed that I finally made the switch, and now my studio is gimped. Why can't we get a straight answer on their intentions for this? It's not like there is some other competing product here... JB

Jake B wrote: > I've got a new FW800 DP 1.25 GHz that boots OS X only. I can run > SoundDiver in classic mode, but not at the same time as Logic. > This won't do. I feel very betrayed that I finally made the switch, > and now my studio is gimped. Why can't we get a straight answer on > their intentions for this? It's not like there is some other > competing product here... True. In the meantime you might us an older Mac - if you've got one - for Sounddiver, and other apps that work under OS9. Gert

> This won't do. I feel very betrayed that I finally made the switch, > and now my studio is gimped. Why can't we get a straight answer on > their intentions for this? It's not like there is some other > competing product here... > > JB For what it's worth, I'm surprised that you're surprised. This is a corporation. Apple has a long history of backwards non-compatibility. Now that they've taken over Emagic, brace yourself for more of the same. I just bought one of the remaining few Dual 1.25gig Powermacs that boot into OS9 because I love Sound Diver, use it regularly, and I have a big investment in VST plugs. I love OSX, but not that much. My MOTU PCI-324 setup does not work reliably in OSX yet, but OS9 is working great. I'm staying right here until the smoke clears. I would strongly advise the same to anyone who's thinking of buying a new Mac. JR

At 20:50 Uhr -0500 14.04.2003, James Ryan wrote: >For what it's worth, I'm surprised that you're surprised. This is a >corporation. Apple has a long history of backwards non-compatibility. Now I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing but as you mention later, if you have big investments, then it can be quite annoying. However I was always happier with the new technology and therefore liked working more. >because I love Sound Diver, use it regularly, and I have a big investment in >VST plugs. I love OSX, but not that much. My MOTU PCI-324 setup does not >work reliably in OSX yet, but OS9 is working great. I'm staying right here I do everything in OSX now even if it means I haven't used Absynth in a couple of month or the Spectral Delay, but the fact, that I can work all day (!!) without crashes, makes this all the worth while. And I am just finishing a DVD of some Spots that I made and I usually have Final Cut Pro, Photoshop and Logic open all at the same time and guess what: no big problems for a week! Yes occasionally Final Cut Pro will just quit so I have to hit save every now and then, but then again, hitting save has become like breathing to me. BTW: I use the same setup (also the PCI-324) and since they released the updated driver (you might want to check that) it's such a pleasure working and I can do what I do: just be creative and make some sound instead of restarting my machine every half hour, like I had to in OS 9. Then again, maybe Apple wanted to make sure with OS9 that I take regular breaks :-) Sorry I'm rambling... Cheers Hans

>>This won't do. I feel very betrayed that I finally made the switch, >>and now my studio is gimped. > > For what it's worth, I'm surprised that you're surprised. This is a > corporation. Apple has a long history of backwards non-compatibility. <snipped by admin> The more important thing to note about eMagic being an Apple company is that Apple has a policy of not discussing products under development unless they are ready to ship within a month. Think how close the announcement of Logic6 was to it's ship date. Compare that the the announcement of Logic5. Notice also that Apple has no policy about not announcing discontinued products. They usually come right out and say it. Read between the lines a little and you'll see that eMagic has no reason not to tell us if SD has been cut, but have very strong reasons not to tell us if it's still under development. Their silence on the subject is a sign. Cheers, -Josh Emmons

"Joshua S Emmons" <skia@...> wrote: > Read between the lines a little and you'll see that eMagic has no reason > not to tell us if SD has been cut, but have very strong reasons not to > tell us if it's still under development. > > Their silence on the subject is a sign. I tend to agree. <Complete speculation mode: ON> Remember the "Studio Description Language" that was going to be included originally with Logic 5? I would imagine a fair amount of work has gone into this, but it has never seen the light of day. I'm guessing that core components of this (in one shape or form) will end up becoming part of OSX, and a new version of SoundDiver will be subsequently released that takes advantage of this. Obviously, it can't happen until the version of OSX is released and available. Let's face it, Emagic are committed to OSX, and their core tools are the various flavours of Logic, SoundDiver, Waveburner and their hardware. Now the Windows line is cut, and they'll probably also be putting some development effort into other areas (Apple related audio stuff) it makes sense to make these tools available for their platform of choice. I'm guessing with the expertise they have, it wouldn't be a terribly difficult task to recompile and test SoundDiver for OSX as is (certainly an easier task than Logic), so why are they waiting, potentially causing problems for Logic/SoundDiver uses who are still caught between OSX/OS9? There must be a reason, and I'm guessing it has something to do with new features in OSX, relating to MIDI setup in general and/or SDL (or whatever it will end up being called). Michael has already stated many times that the core autolink/interoperability and setup in SoundDiver is potentially complex and really needs to be redesigned to be a bit easier to work with, and we haven't seen any major new versions of SoundDiver for quite some time - I doubt he's that busy he's been leaving the main SD code alone for a long time. So, I reckon we'll see SoundDiver 4 for OSX with some reworked core functionality at it's heart, which will work great with Logic and OSX. Now when that will be, I dunno... Of course, all this means nothing to me, a humble PC user... Ben Hall www.benhall.co.uk

Yesterday, I received an email from Emagic, informing me I could get the upgrade from either a dealer or the Apple Store. Today, my dealer sent me an email today saying "Nothing is shipping yet. My distributor is just sitting around scratching his head waiting. He expects it soon, however just when is uncertain..." So I went to purchase the the Logic Pro Upgrade from the Apple Store, but I couldn't find it. I knew other people had purchased it there, so I called them to complain about their half-assed search implementation and order it over the phone. I was informed that the upgrade was removed from the store yesterday. They couldn't give me an explanation, and suggested I call Emagic. I called Dave Smith and left a message, but he's a busy guy. Does anyone know what's up?? THANX!! :)

On 6 Feb 2004 at 16:57, Mark wrote: > > I called Dave Smith and left a message, but he's a busy guy. > > Does anyone know what's up?? > > THANX!! :) > I tried too upgrade via the web today, not there (the upgrade was just there last night). I called and they told me you had to buy the full blown version ($1000) So i called dave @ emagic. He said he could take my order, but he pretty much insisted that i go to a dealer- i called audiomidi.com and they hooked me up. i double checked with this cat Stan at audiomidi, and he said it would be available within a week or so (or by the end of the month at least) for sure. Who knows whats going on ??? what is actually up with these cats, dave told me he was the last guy left in sales @ emagic and that tech support had been "reduced". yikes !!!!

> On 6 Feb 2004 at 16:57, Mark wrote: > > I called Dave Smith and left a message, but he's a busy guy. > > Does anyone know what's up?? > > THANX!! :) --- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, "Bigg John" <biggjohn@n...> wrote: > I tried too upgrade via the web today, not there (the upgrade was > just there last night). I called and they told me you had to buy > the full blown version ($1000) So i called dave @ emagic. He said > he could take my order, but he pretty much insisted that i go to > a dealer- i called audiomidi.com and they hooked me up. i double > checked with this cat Stan at audiomidi, and he said it would be > available within a week or so (or by the end of the month at > least) for sure. Who knows whats going on ??? The Logic Pro 5>6 upgrade is also posted at NovaMusik.com as well as AudioMIDI.com Wonder why it was removed from the Apple Store? Jon

I reconfigured my system, added a couple of MIDI devices, tried a few things, and succeeded in wrecking my environment. So I figured I'd start from stratch. The Setup Assistant doesn't work. Choosing it from Preferences only makes Logic quit. So I trashed the Logic preferences, relogged, repaired permisions using DiskUtility, rebooted, and restarted Logic. It brings up a message stating that there are no preferences, and suggests I run the Setup Assistant. When I do that, the program quits, and nothing more happens. There doesn't seem to be anything about the Logic Setup Assistant in any of the documentation (printed manuals, pdf, or help files). Any ideas?? -- my DAW setup: Macintosh TiG4 1GHz 1G RAM OS 10.2.6 (2) LaCie D2 80G Metric Halo 2882+DSP Emagic AMT8 Logic Platinum 6.3.3 SparkLE Plus 2.80

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, Mark <yahoogroups@p...> wrote: > The Setup Assistant doesn't work. Choosing it from Preferences > only makes Logic quit. So I trashed the Logic preferences, > relogged, repaired permisions using DiskUtility, rebooted, and > restarted Logic. It brings up a message stating that there are no > preferences, and suggests I run the Setup Assistant. When I do > that, the program quits, and nothing more happens. > There doesn't seem to be anything about the Logic Setup Assistant > in any of the documentation (printed manuals, pdf, or help files). You might try re-downloading and re-installing that version of Logic. I think someone recently mentioned that there was a problem with the installer breaking the setup assistant, but they released a new version of the installer that fixed this issue (posted on Emagic's InfoWeb).

In the Arrange window, there is a selection for Track Instrument under the category Click & Ports called Input Notes. I searched the Infoweb. I searched the Logic 6 Guide OS X.pdf. I tried looking it up in the printed _Logic Platinum 6 - Reference Manual_ I didn't find anything. Any idea what it does?? THANX!!

> Input Notes. > Any idea what it does?? Um, nothing really. It just sits there. It's the on screen keyboard of your autoload. If its presence in the Track instrument list bothers you, then tick off its icon in the Instrument Parameter Box. Christian -- homepage http://uk.geocities.com/christianobermaier/home.htm

On 2/9/04, christianobermaier@... put forth: > > Input Notes. > > Any idea what it does?? > >Um, nothing really. It just sits there. I find that it does nothing a bit hard to believe. It has Channel, Velocity, and Lowest settings, a check box, and Mute and Record buttons. Surely, these must have some effect on something somewhere. >It's the on screen keyboard of your autoload. If I delete the track in the Arrange window, the onscreen Keyboard window still works. >If its presence in the Track instrument list bothers you, then >tick off its icon in the Instrument Parameter Box. What bothers me is it's lack of presence in any of the documentation. I searched the Logic 6 Guide OS X.pdf and Infoweb, and tried looking it up in the printed _Logic Platinum 6 - Reference Manual_ , but I couldn't didn't find it mentioned anywhere.

> I find that it does nothing a bit hard to believe. Well, then...click on it. >> It's the on screen keyboard of your autoload. > If I delete the track in the Arrange window, the onscreen Keyboard > window still works. Yes, but that's not the one you selected in the Arrangement. It's the keyboard on the Click and ports layer, as the menu suggested. Besides, the existence or non-existence of Arrangement Tracks has no influence whatsoever on the existence of objects in the Environment. > What bothers me is it's lack of presence in any of the documentation. Type in 'keyboard' Christian -- homepage http://uk.geocities.com/christianobermaier/home.htm

On a fine day, 10-02-2004, Mark wrote: >I find that it does nothing a bit hard to believe. It has Channel, >Velocity, and Lowest settings, a check box, and Mute and Record >buttons. Surely, these must have some effect on something somewhere. It's a midi keyboard. Send notes into it and you'll see keys light up. Click on keys, and it'll send out midi notes. Not very interesting really. >What bothers me is it's lack of presence in any of the documentation. Version 4 manual (the paper doorstop), page 5-40 -- that's the "The Environment" chapter. -- Hendrik Jan Veenstra h @ k n o w a r e . n l Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

I have an Apple Pro Keyboard, and imho, it's a piece of junk. Still, I don't type that much text when using a DAW, and having specifically-labeled key caps could make it easier to use Logic. So I'm thinking of converting it. http://www.logickeyboard.com/shop/productlist.asp?Id5 Does anyone else offer a similar product?? A bag of plastic keys for $90 seems a bit expensive. THANX!! :)

Mark <yahoogroups@p...> wrote: > http://www.logickeyboard.com/shop/productlist.asp?Id5 > > Does anyone else offer a similar product?? A bag of plastic keys for > $90 seems a bit expensive. Hey Mark! Thanks for sharing this... Even though the price is a *little* high, I might get one of those babies!!! THANKS! Only other thing out there that I know of is..... http://www.powerkeys.com/powerkeys.html PowerKeys Kit: The kit consists of a color-coded keyboard overlay for any extended keyboard along with 400 pre- programmed shortcuts that addresses the Audio, Midi and Score sections of Logic Audio. ------------------------------- This one is $30 bucks!!!!! Chris M.

>Mark <yahoogroups@p...> wrote: > > http://www.logickeyboard.com/shop/productlist.asp?Id5 > > Does anyone else offer a similar product?? A bag of plastic keys for > > $90 seems a bit expensive. On 2/12/04, Chris M. put forth: >Hey Mark! >Thanks for sharing this... Even though the price is a *little* high, >I might get one of those babies!!! THANKS! >Only other thing out there that I know of is..... >http://www.powerkeys.com/powerkeys.html >PowerKeys Kit: >The kit consists of a color-coded keyboard overlay for any extended >keyboard along with 400 pre- programmed shortcuts that addresses the >Audio, Midi and Score sections of Logic Audio. >This one is $30 bucks!!!!! According to their website, the "iKey from Macally" is the only USB keyboard it fits, so if you don't already have one of those, you would have to buy one. Otoh, the replacement keys from logickeyboard only work with an Apple Pro Keyboard. So the real price would depend on what you already have. Then again, perhaps you could print your own custom keyboard overlay, and have it laminated by a print shop. That would probably cost less, and could be made to fit whichever keyboard you already own. Since already have an Aple Proo Keyboarrd, any modification could only be an improvement. So I'm considering the set from logickeys.

I'm trying to get a bit more intensive with sequencing in LAP -- to use it as more than just a multitrack recorder, but I'm finding it a bit lacking in the MIDI department. For almost a decade, I ran Cubase under System 7. When I purchased my G4, I switched to Logic and OS X. While Logic has superior audio capability, I find it's MIDI capability inferior. MIDI is extremely slow low-bandwidth data in comparison to audio. It uses very little CPU. So I wonder why there aren't more advanced MIDI features in today's software. Then again, I'm no expert at using Logic. However it seems to be missing some features that many would consider basic, for example: 1) Transpose with scale correction. Yes, Logic has a Transform function that can increase or decrease a sequence by a number of MIDI note values, but it's not as musically useful. 2) Modulate or trigger MIDI sequences with other MIDI sequences or "MIDI LFO's" (like the Interactive Phrase Processor in Cubase). 3) Loop individual MIDI tracks (like Dr. T on an Atari). 4) An accent mode for drum editing. While Logic doesn't have a "drum editor" like many other programs, its Hyper Editor seems to be lacking this feature. 5) Odd time signatures (eg. 5/5, 7/7, etc.) Is there anyway to do these things in Logic?? THANX!! :) -- my DAW setup: Macintosh TiG4 1GHz 1G RAM OS 10.2.6 (2) LaCie D2 80G Metric Halo 2882+DSP Emagic AMT8 Logic Platinum 6.3.2 SparkLE Plus 2.80

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, Mark <yahoogroups@p...> wrote: > > I'm trying to get a bit more intensive with sequencing in LAP -- to > use it as more than just a multitrack recorder, but I'm finding it a > bit lacking in the MIDI department. > > 3) Loop individual MIDI tracks (like Dr. T on an Atari). Geez, I remember having Dr. T on Atari, I just don't remember exactly what it did..! I do know that you can loop MIDI on Logic easily by selecting "ON" in the Parameter box in the upper left corner of the Arrange page. If you only want to loop for a specific period (say 8 bars e.g.) then copy the looped object at the 8th bar and switch the Loop box "OFF" for that object. > > 5) Odd time signatures (eg. 5/5, 7/7, etc.) > OK Franz Liszt, I can see 5/4 or 7/8 but I'm going to draw the line at 7th notes! ; ) Logic handles odd time signatures right in the transport. If you want to play in 5/4 time, scroll the 4 in "4/4" up to 5. If you want to change to 4/4 for one bar at bar 12, go to bar 12, change the 5 to 4, then go to bar 13 and change the 4 to 5 again. There have been grumblings over the years that there should be a Time Signature Window where you can edit this more easily, but it's always been like this and it works pretty well. Sonny Keyes SKa Music Toronto

Mark wrote: > I'm trying to get a bit more intensive with sequencing in LAP -- to > use it as more than just a multitrack recorder, but I'm finding it a > bit lacking in the MIDI department. Hmmm, first time I've ever heard that...! > 1) Transpose with scale correction. Yes, Logic has a Transform > function that can increase or decrease a sequence by a number of MIDI > note values, but it's not as musically useful. Do-able using a Chord Memorizer in the Environment. Probably not as simple a solution as you'd like, but it's extremely flexible. You could also use the map available in Transformers. BTW, there are several easier ways to do simple transpositions. > 2) Modulate or trigger MIDI sequences with other MIDI sequences or > "MIDI LFO's" Not sure exactly what you're wanting to do, but MIDI sequences can certainly be triggered using Touch Tracks in the Environment. Speaking of the Environment (again), it's an extremely flexible and powerful tool for all sorts of MIDI processing, so it's pretty likely that it can enable you to do most of the things you want. > (like the Interactive Phrase Processor in Cubase). Dunno anything about it, sorry. > 3) Loop individual MIDI tracks (like Dr. T on an Atari). In the Sequence Parameter Box there's a checkbox for Loop. (Dunno how Dr.T implements it...) > 4) An accent mode for drum editing. While Logic doesn't have a "drum > editor" like many other programs, its Hyper Editor seems to be > lacking this feature. I generally don't use the Hyper Editor, so I can't help you there, but for the Score Editor you can set velocity and length offsets for 16 different symbols, in Song Setting->Score: MIDI Meaning. Is this the sort of thing you're after? > 5) Odd time signatures (eg. 5/5, 7/7, etc.) If you mean 5/4, 7/4, etc. then... Move to the point in the song where you want the new time signature and simply change it in the Transport window. Or drag a time signature into the score from the part box on the left. Or use the Signature/Key Change List Editor. If you really mean "5/5, 7/7, etc." then I don't know.

> 1) Transpose with scale correction. Yes, Logic has a > Transform function that can increase or decrease a sequence > by a number of MIDI note values, but it's not as musically useful. I'm still learning logic myself, so forgive me if I get these wrong. I think I have seen enivornment objects floating around that can do these kinds of things through semi-complex environments using Transformer in conjunction with other things to do these kinds of transpositions. Check that one environment website...can't remember what its called now. I agree though..it shouldn't be that difficult to do such a useful and musical technique. That oughta be a built-in like it was in Cubase and in other sequencers such as DP. Perhaps someone else will point out that it is though..I'm still learning logic.. > > 2) Modulate or trigger MIDI sequences with other MIDI > sequences or "MIDI LFO's" (like the Interactive Phrase > Processor in Cubase). This is DEFINITELY something that would be cool...something I am extremely interested in pursuing myself also. Depending on what you want to do, you may be able to accomplish it with the environment. Check that website I mentioned and get all the tutorials. > > 3) Loop individual MIDI tracks (like Dr. T on an Atari). I agree. Maybe Apple will add this. > 5) Odd time signatures (eg. 5/5, 7/7, etc.) Really we can't do that? I never tried it yet..but sheez..oughta be able to.

> 5) Odd time signatures (eg. 5/5, 7/7, etc.) mr. schillinger notwithstanding, these time signatures are meaningless. logic certainly allows any meaningful time sigs. steve parker

On Friday, February 13, 2004, at 02:07 PM, steve parker wrote: >> 5) Odd time signatures (eg. 5/5, 7/7, etc.) > > mr. schillinger notwithstanding, > these time signatures are meaningless. > logic certainly allows any meaningful time sigs. ...though polyrhythmic signatures would be nice, as in one sequence in 5/4 over another sequence of 4/4 etc. Take care Jesse Widener

Hello, I hope that I am simply missing the obvious solution, but how does one access the lower parameters in the Score parameters window, as these run right off the bottom of a screen of any normal size? Thank you. 3

>Hello, > >I hope that I am simply missing the obvious solution, but how does >one access the lower parameters in the Score parameters window, as >these run right off the bottom of a screen of any normal size? > >Thank you. > >3 > > Never mind, figured it out. Obvious indeed: the silly select buttons in said window. Best, 3

On a fine day, 13-02-2004, Mark wrote: >1) Transpose with scale correction. Yes, Logic has a Transform >function that can increase or decrease a sequence by a number of MIDI >note values, but it's not as musically useful. Use a transformer in the environment with the proper map ('Use Map') set up. If you e.g. set Conditions to select only Notes, and then use a map in the Operations part for the 'pitch' byte, you could e.g. transform all 'black keys' to 'white keys' (i.e. key of C major/A minor) and leave the whites alone. This is more flexible than pre-packaged tunings, but more work to set up initially. If you make stuff like this once, you can always import such a patch later, or save it in your Autoload. More work to set up, but way more flexibility than any other approach. >2) Modulate or trigger MIDI sequences with other MIDI sequences or >"MIDI LFO's" (like the Interactive Phrase Processor in Cubase). Environment again. Check Len Sasso's www.swiftkick.com, or my own website (see sig). There are plenty midi lfo's out there. >3) Loop individual MIDI tracks (like Dr. T on an Atari). Not sure what you mean. You can switch on 'loop' for every midi sequence...? >4) An accent mode for drum editing. While Logic doesn't have a "drum >editor" like many other programs, its Hyper Editor seems to be >lacking this feature. Or maybe you have to get used to another way of working... >5) Odd time signatures (eg. 5/5, 7/7, etc.) What on earth is an x/5 signature??? And what would be the difference between a 5/4 and a 5/5? >Is there anyway to do these things in Logic?? Yes. There's no sequencer that comes close to Logic's midi capabilities. The biggest problem for new users is not the _lack_ of midi features, but the abundance. Most features are not simply "plug & play" though -- you often have to create your own environment patches to achieve something that might be straightforward in another program. That's difficult if you're new to Logic, but at the same time allows for far greater flexibility in the long run. -- Hendrik Jan Veenstra h @ k n o w a r e . n l Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

On a fine day, 13-02-2004, methinked@... wrote: >On Friday, February 13, 2004, at 02:07 PM, steve parker wrote: > >>> 5) Odd time signatures (eg. 5/5, 7/7, etc.) >> >> mr. schillinger notwithstanding, >> these time signatures are meaningless. >> logic certainly allows any meaningful time sigs. > >...though polyrhythmic signatures would be nice, as in one sequence in >5/4 over another sequence of 4/4 etc. YES! And while we're at it, how about dedicated tempo tracks (plural) with a kind of hyperdraw-like editing functionality? Lack of these must have been my 1st complaint when I switched to Logic 4.1... -- Hendrik Jan Veenstra h @ k n o w a r e . n l Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

On 04-02-14 11.20, "Hendrik Jan Veenstra" <h@...> wrote: > YES! And while we're at it, how about dedicated tempo tracks > (plural) with a kind of hyperdraw-like editing functionality? > Lack of these must have been my 1st complaint when I switched to Logic 4.1... Hmmm... Do you mean we had that in Logic pre 4.1? I can't recall that. Or are you saying that you were another sequencer before starting with Logic 4.1? No matter what, I fully support the wish for tempo tracks. Best regards Per Boysen -- http://www.boysen.se Public Music Beta Testing http://www.looproom.com/p2p/

On a fine day, 14-02-2004, Per Boysen wrote: >On 04-02-14 11.20, "Hendrik Jan Veenstra" <h@...> wrote: > >> YES! And while we're at it, how about dedicated tempo tracks >> (plural) with a kind of hyperdraw-like editing functionality? > > Lack of these must have been my 1st complaint when I switched to >Logic 4.1... > >Hmmm... Do you mean we had that in Logic pre 4.1? No. >I can't recall that. Or are you saying that you were another >sequencer before starting with Logic 4.1? Well, I can't say I *was* another sequencer :-). But I did _use_ another sequencer indeed, supposing that's what you meant... > No matter what, I fully support the wish for tempo tracks. Hey! Another weird nut with the same wish :). I always have the feeling I'm the only one who wants tempo tracks (and hates the current tempo-alternative-list way of doing things). Oh, and while we're fixing things: an environment tempo fader with adjustable range and resolution, please... So you could have a fader with a 90-110 range and 0.2-bpm resolution for example, allowing you to record smooth accel/rit 'after the fact' (and no, hyperdrawing tempo curves is *no* feasible alternative for being able to 'intuitively' drag a tempo fader 'by ear'). As a matter of fact, I started with HybridArts' SMPTEtrack on an Atari. In 1988 (!) this app already allowed multiple tempo- and meter-tracks, and had a hi-res, adjustable-range recordable tempo fader. I'm still amazed that such obvious things are still missing from Logic. -- Hendrik Jan Veenstra h @ k n o w a r e . n l Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

Hendrik Jan Veenstra wrote: > > What on earth is an x/5 signature??? And what would be the > difference between a 5/4 and a 5/5? > Hi HJ, I probably shouldn't, but I'll give it a go: 5/4 means 5 quarter notes, 5/5 means 5 fifth notes to the bar, respectively. While such a thing as a 5th note is not exactly an everyday occurrence, think of it in terms of, if I play a bass drum on all the quarters 4/4 at 150 BPM, an equivalent would be 4 beats of 5/5 at 120 BPM - the 5ths are 80% as long as the quarters at a given tempo. So, you have to think in terms of dividing the bar into fifths instead of quarters. It is common enough to hear 4/4 and 6/8 being superimposed on each other, x/5 is obviously much more exotic! One of the best examples I know of this type of "metric modulation" is drummer Vinnie Colaiuta playing with Frank Zappa - the song "Catholic Girls" on Joe's Garage, for example ... hope this explanation makes some sense ...you as a mathematician should probably grasp it and come back with a more lucid explanation ;-) kind regards Mark Cahill

On 2/13/04, Steve Schow put forth: > > 1) Transpose with scale correction. Yes, Logic has a > > Transform function that can increase or decrease a sequence > > by a number of MIDI note values, but it's not as musically useful. > >I'm still learning logic myself, so forgive me if I get these wrong. Is there anyone who is not still learning Logic?? :) >I think I have seen enivornment objects floating around that can do these >kinds of things through semi-complex environments using Transformer in >conjunction with other things to do these kinds of transpositions. Check >that one environment website...can't remember what its called now. > >I agree though..it shouldn't be that difficult to do such a useful and >musical technique. That oughta be a built-in like it was in Cubase and in >other sequencers such as DP. Perhaps someone else will point out that it is >though..I'm still learning logic.. Thanks :) I also hope someone else points to where it is built into Logic, because it seems like quite an oversight. I looked at some of the environment objects at swiftkick.com, but they are very limited (Cubase could transpose to dozens of different scales, with numerous options), but more importantly they are input/output processors. So it's not like they can be easily applied to a selected group of notes in an editor. > > > 2) Modulate or trigger MIDI sequences with other MIDI > > sequences or "MIDI LFO's" (like the Interactive Phrase > > Processor in Cubase). > >This is DEFINITELY something that would be cool...something I am extremely >interested in pursuing myself also. Depending on what you want to do, you >may be able to accomplish it with the environment. Check that website I >mentioned and get all the tutorials. I looked, but couldn't find anything like it. Someone mention Touch Tracks, which seems like a set of macros for note events set up in the Environment. Again, this removes it from the compositional process in the Arrange window and various editors. > > 5) Odd time signatures (eg. 5/5, 7/7, etc.) > >Really we can't do that? I never tried it yet..but sheez..oughta be able >to. You would think, but most software MIDI sequencers can't. Cubase could't do it either. Although I don't know why. It is something that can be done with many non-MIDI hardware sequencers. I should probably spend more time with Numerology (a hardware-styled OS X sequencer) and Ritmo (an AU drum sampler), then see if I can import the results into Logic. On 2/14/04, Bill Canty put forth: > > 4) An accent mode for drum editing. While Logic doesn't have a "drum > > editor" like many other programs, its Hyper Editor seems to be > > lacking this feature. > >I generally don't use the Hyper Editor, so I can't help you there, but >for the Score Editor you can set velocity and length offsets for 16 >different symbols, in Song Setting->Score: MIDI Meaning. Is this the >sort of thing you're after? d00D, if I wanted to be confused, I'd take mushrooms ;) Imho, that's no way to write drums. I meant something like this: On 2/13/04, Per Boysen put forth: >Speaking of Cubase, another cool feature I miss in Logic is the option of >four diffent verlocity values when writing notes directly into an edit >window. Each velocity value should have its own key combination to modify a >mouse click with the pen tool. Speeding up drum programming a bunch! Exactly :) That way you can easily emulate the accent feature of many drum machines -- a mouse click is a regular hit, and a shift-click is with accent. The regular and accented sounds could then be mapped to different velocity zones in a sampler. Is there anyway to do that in the Hyper Editor?? Apple announced "UltraBeat" -- a percussion synthesizer for future versions of Logic. Let's hope it also includes a better drum editor.

On 04-02-14 13.53, "Hendrik Jan Veenstra" <h@...> wrote: > Well, I can't say I *was* another sequencer :-) Oh, really! I always thought you were one. ;-) >> No matter what, I fully support the wish for tempo tracks. > > Hey! Another weird nut with the same wish :). Back on Cubase/Atari I used to "tempo" lock tracks. That feature was very interesting; the track went on to play back the old tempo while you could change the tempo for the rest of the arrangement. I'm doing that now with pre-mixed audio files. > So you could have a fader > with a 90-110 range and 0.2-bpm resolution for example, allowing you > to record smooth accel/rit 'after the fact' (and no, hyperdrawing > tempo curves is *no* feasible alternative for being able to > 'intuitively' drag a tempo fader 'by ear'). Yes, the human musical instinct is an incredible method. I can't say how but it saved my butt many times ;-) This scenario you are giving (above) is possible right now if you bounce parts from Logic and mix them in Ableton Live. Live has midi learn so it will take you approximately one second to set up a midi knob for "playing the tempo by ear". BTW did you know God is a DJ? > As a matter of fact, I started with HybridArts' SMPTEtrack on an > Atari. In 1988 (!) this app already allowed multiple tempo- and > meter-tracks, and had a hi-res, adjustable-range recordable tempo > fader. I'm still amazed that such obvious things are still missing > from Logic. I'm actually beginning to think that it might not be such a good idea to wish for everything in one single application. With the new faster Macs and OSX we can simply hook up different software to each other on the system level. Logic is totally sufficient for some tasks while it might fail in a different scenario. Best regards Per Boysen -- http://www.boysen.se Public Music Beta Testing http://www.looproom.com/p2p/

On a fine day, 14-02-2004, Per Boysen wrote: >> No matter what, I fully support the wish for tempo tracks. Am 14.02.2004 um 13:53 schrieb Hendrik Jan Veenstra: > Hey! Another weird nut with the same wish :). I always have the > feeling I'm the only one who wants tempo tracks (and hates the > current tempo-alternative-list way of doing things). What do you mean with tempo tracks? Isn't it possible to record tempo changes? Or do you mean to have multiple parallel tracks each with its own tempo curve? This would be weird indeed --- nothing for straight four to the floor compositions... But hey, I would vote for this. ;-) > Oh, and while we're fixing things: an environment tempo fader with > adjustable range and resolution, please... So you could have a fader > with a 90-110 range and 0.2-bpm resolution for example, allowing you > to record smooth accel/rit 'after the fact' (and no, hyperdrawing > tempo curves is *no* feasible alternative for being able to > 'intuitively' drag a tempo fader 'by ear'). Again: Isn't this already possible by the aid of meta-events and a transformer? (Or don't you get the required resolution?) Thomas

On Saturday, February 14, 2004, at 02:20 AM, Hendrik Jan Veenstra wrote: > On a fine day, 13-02-2004, methinked@... wrote: > >> ...though polyrhythmic signatures would be nice, as in one sequence in >> 5/4 over another sequence of 4/4 etc. > > YES! And while we're at it, how about dedicated tempo tracks > (plural) with a kind of hyperdraw-like editing functionality? Yep. Take care Jesse Widener

Per Boysen wrote: > > Back on Cubase/Atari I used to "tempo" lock tracks. That feature was very > interesting; the track went on to play back the old tempo while you could > change the tempo for the rest of the arrangement. I'm doing that now with > pre-mixed audio files. AFAIK you can do that in Logic with "(Un)Lock SMPTE Position"

On 04-02-14 23.01, "Bill Canty" <bill@...> wrote: > Per Boysen wrote: >> >> Back on Cubase/Atari I used to "tempo" lock tracks. That feature was very >> interesting; the track went on to play back the old tempo while you could >> change the tempo for the rest of the arrangement. I'm doing that now with >> pre-mixed audio files. > > AFAIK you can do that in Logic with "(Un)Lock SMPTE Position" Hey - you're right! Somehow I though that feature is for locking single events start/anchor point to a certain cue point (smpte - absolute time position). Now I checked it out and it's also working perfectly well for a track with looped midi parts. If you lock the original midi part all the loops keep up the old tempo when you change the overall song tempo. And you can see the polyrhythmic relations graphically, that's cool! This means that if I Lock SMPTE Position for all midi parts in an arrangement I can use Logic's Tempo Operation window to create acc- and ritardando for audio tracks ReWire slaved from Ableton Live. Holy shit - I'm going to have some fun with this!!! Logic midi and audio parts will stay on a firm tempo while elastic Live audio tracks together with Logic effects drift up and down in tempo. What a powerful trick! Thanks a lot for the hint, Bill! :-D Best regards Per Boysen -- http://www.boysen.se Public Music Beta Testing http://www.looproom.com/p2p/

Mark wrote: > > Thanks :) I also hope someone else points to where it is built into > Logic, because it seems like quite an oversight. > > I looked at some of > the environment objects at swiftkick.com, but they are very limited > (Cubase could transpose to dozens of different scales, with numerous > options), but more importantly they are input/output processors. So > it's not like they can be easily applied to a selected group of notes > in an editor. No, it's not built in, and yes, it'd be heaps easier t'do in an editor as you suggest. The only way I can think of would be to make a set of user presets in the Transform window, one for every scale type in every key (!) Have a large bottle of double-strength headache tablets handy! Huge disruption to workflow, I know, but you can also re-record the output of an Environment patch. As Hendrik pointed out, Logic's MIDI capabilities are FAR from "very limited". Unfortunately, in many cases you need to roll your own, or spend just as long figuring out how the hell the downloaded environment patch works so you can modify it. But it IS an absolute wonderland for MIDI processing! >> > > 2) Modulate or trigger MIDI sequences with other MIDI >> > sequences or "MIDI LFO's" (like the Interactive Phrase >> > Processor in Cubase). > > I looked, but couldn't find anything like it. Someone mention Touch > Tracks, which seems like a set of macros for note events set up in > the Environment. Again, this removes it from the compositional > process in the Arrange window and various editors. Not sure exactly what you're wanting to do, probably cos I know nothing about Cubases's Interactive Phrase Processor. But if it helps at all: notes that are used to trigger Touch Tracks can be freely adjusted in the Arrange window and various editors, and sequences triggered by Touch Tracks can contain anything (e.g. controller data for MIDI LFO's), not just notes. And there are various trigger modes, groups, etc. And, as already mentioned, the output of all this can be re-recorded so it becomes a normal MIDI sequence. >> > 4) An accent mode for drum editing. [snip] > >>Speaking of Cubase, another cool feature I miss in Logic is the option of >>four diffent verlocity values when writing notes directly into an edit >>window. Each velocity value should have its own key combination to modify a >>mouse click with the pen tool. Speeding up drum programming a bunch! > > Exactly :) That way you can easily emulate the accent feature of > many drum machines -- a mouse click is a regular hit, and a > shift-click is with accent. The regular and accented sounds could > then be mapped to different velocity zones in a sampler. > > Is there anyway to do that in the Hyper Editor?? K - now I get it. :-) AFAIK, no you can't do that in the Hyper Editor, not without some serious assistance from the Environment anyway. Sorry... But... there are some very flexible and useful ways to get the same outcome, using the other editors, step-time recording, the Keyboard window and/or some home-made Environment patches.