Re: [LAW] Logic Windows 5.5.1 update (longish)

hesse-voormann...

Hendrik Jan Veenstra wrote:

>On a fine day, 01-03-2003, Tony Perretta wrote:

>> > OTOH I think that
>>> Emagic could have decided to stop the entire LAW thing right
here and
>>> now, with the release of LA6 for Mac. The fact that they choose
to
>>> do otherwise is what made me say Emagic is cool.
>
>>I'm not sure what you say is true HJ. As far as I'm aware Emagic are
legally
>>bound to fully support Logic 5 for Windows until Sept 30th 2004 and
I
>>suspect this includes bug fixes. Apparently this is stipulated by
German
>>law.

>That's the 1st time I hear this.

Hi Hendrik Jan, Tony

Well, it has been discussed on the list from time to time. While Emagic have
never gone into any detail as to how they will continue supporting LAW
users, at least they have released 5.3, 5.5 and now 5.5.1 after the 30
September 2002.

>What's the idea? A 2-year support
>period or something? But even then, define "support software".

Unless there is someone on the list with a detailed knowledge of German
contract legislation as applied to the IT industry, I don't know if we will
be able to get a precise definition of support for a product which is
being/has been discontinued. So far, emagic have only issued one statement
referring to "standard productguarantee" on or around the 5 July.
Here is
the statement which appeared on their website at the time.

"An dieser Stelle sei nochmals betont, dass wir über den 30.
September 2002
hinaus den Service und Support für alle Besitzer von Logic Windows
bieten
werden, der der Standard-Produktgarantie entspricht. Das Logic
5.2-Subrelease, das wir jetzt angekündigt haben, ist dafür ein
konkretes
Beispiel. Wir fühlen uns allen Kunden gegenüber sehr
verpflichtet."

translates as:

We wish to emphasize that we will continue to offer service and support for
all users of Logic windows beyond the 30 September in accordance with the
standard product guarantee. The logic 5.2 subrelease, which we have just
announced, is a firm example of this. We feel a deep obligation to all our
cusomers

>Does that mean they have to issue new releases, or does it mean their
>helpdesk may not turn down LAW-costumers, or anything in between...

Certainly, they would run the risk of legal action if their help desk
refused to offer support to a paid-up customer because he/she was still
using a windows version. I believe this is one area where the German 2 year
consumer guarantee laws can be applied. As far as new releases are
concerned, they are most likely not obliged to issue new features which were
never promised to existing customers. In fact, they could create problems
for themselves if they did. By issuing a LAW 6, and charging for it, as they
have done for LAM 6, they would then be extending their guarantee period,
simply by taking money for a new product. I doubt if they could even sell a
LAW 6 update with special conditions like "as is, without any guarantee
of
developer support". I think German law would not allow for any such
clause
in a consumer contract of sale. If, OTOH, they gave Windows users the
features for free which Mac users have had to pay for - well, I can imagine
the response to that on this list alone!

So, I think their obligations lie somewhere in between, and in particular,
believe there may be an obligation to attend to faults in the software - in
other words, when someone discovers abug, they may have to fix it. The
German expression is "Produktpflege".

>I don't believe for a second that any law could force a company to
>produce software for a specific group of people.

Probably not, but please don't forget, the specific group of people in this
case are paid up customers....just because Emagic stops selling the product
version these people bought doesn't meant that they can be treated
differently to the Mac customers as far as customer service is concerned.

>That would bizarre,
>wouldn't it? I mean: what then if Emagic simply issued a 5.5.1 in
>which a minor detail was changed like the cokour of the Play button
>:), and then 6 months later ditto with a 5.5.2... That's
"support"
>right -- new versions of the osftware... Surely this law doesn't say
>which features of the software should be changed or added, right?
>The fact that LA6 is Mac-only sort of proves my point: apparently
>Emagic is not forced, by law or however else, to keep the LAW and LAM
>versions "in sync" until Sept '04. So again: define
"support"...

I think that, at the end of the day, there is always going to some be room
for manouvre as to exactly what they are legally obliged to do. However,
quite another matter, and IMHO, much more relevant, is what they deem to be
a fair and honourable/ethical business practice.

So far I have been quite satisfied that us windows people have, given the
circumstances, been treated fairly (not that I am happy that we are in this
situation in the first place, but that has been discussed ad nauseam, 'nuff
said!). I think they are certainly smart enough to realise that there are
still a lot of LAW users who are just not yet ready or have not yet decided
to make the switch. I cannot imagine that a company in its right state of
mind is going to just turn around and drop over a third of its customer
base, without making some sort of effort to keep them.

At the end of the day, anything that smells remotely like goodwill will be
received as such, and might just cause us to stick with logic and move to
Mac.

Sorry for the length of this reply!

kind regards

Mark Cahill