Can any one tell me how can I record & playback midi in logic with alternative scales? Such scales for example could be a standard scale with the C and B notes playing –/+ 50 semi tones. This feature is available in most of the other programs like Cubase and has been there at least since Cubase VST 3.5 for both MAC and Windows. However I just can't get it in logic. More than half of the world uses alternative or different tunings and scales and for some reason it seems that Emagic just can't get it! Correct me if I am wrong and your help is very much appreciated.

> Can any one tell me how can I record & playback midi in logic with > alternative scales? Such scales for example could be a standard scale > with the C and B notes playing –/+ 50 semi tones. This feature is > available in most of the other programs like Cubase and has been > there at least since Cubase VST 3.5 for both MAC and Windows. However > I just can't get it in logic. More than half of the world uses > alternative or different tunings and scales and for some reason it > seems that Emagic just can't get it! Correct me if I am wrong and > your help is very much appreciated. there are some massive technical issues with this. First, the only way to do this would be to use pitch bend messages as well as note messages. - since all sound modules deal with pitch bend slightly differently (even different programs on the same module can) you would have a lot of out of tune instruments. Even if you could get this to work, pitch bend messages are channel messages, they would effect all notes on the same channel equally, so forget about chords. note that this also includes soft synths. So, why would Emagic even bother with something impossible? What to do? Well, good hardware synthesisers have included different tunings for many many years, using normal MIDI messages of course. Here is a example list of several manufacturers who include multiple tuning tables, as well as user definable tuning table in their instruments: Kurzweil, Korg, Yamaha, Waldorf. Remember MIDI is just a control protocol, it actually has nothing to do with what pitch you are playing, that is up to the sound generator to determine. -Haven eat eat eat eat eat eat eat http://www.cervix.net/

> Can any one tell me how can I record & playback > midi in logic with alternative scales? Several ways to achieve this. The easiest way is outside Logic, when you simply use your sound generators' microtuning abilities. If you can't go that way, then you first should be aware that MIDI does not provide means for note specific tuning information. So you have to use pitch-bend info, which again is active for all notes on a specific channel. This in turn leads you to distinction between either strictly monophonic single lines, which would involve setting up a transformer that maps each note to a specific amount of realtime pitch-bend, or polyphonic parts which would involve redirecting the twelve notes of the keyboard octaves to twelve MIDi channels by using a some transformers' input condition maps and then having those twelve separate streams continuously pitch-bended to the desired amount. You'd then use twelve channels on your sound generator, obviously. Which way are you gonna take ? > has been >there at least since Cubase VST 3.5 How do they do it ? Christian

> If you can't go that way, then you first should be aware that MIDI > does not provide means for note specific tuning information. Actually, it does.... > > has been there at least since Cubase VST 3.5 > > How do they do it ? Maybe they implement MIDI Tuning Standard? Each note can be tuned in 0.0061 cent steps using standardised SysEx messages. Neil -- Neil Johnson :: Computer Laboratory :: University of Cambridge :: http://www.njohnson.co.uk http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~nej22 ---- IEE Cambridge Branch: http://www.iee-cambridge.org.uk ----

> Maybe they implement MIDI Tuning Standard? > Each note can be tuned in > 0.0061 cent steps using standardised SysEx messages. Which sound generators support that ? Christian

> > Maybe they implement MIDI Tuning Standard? > > Which sound generators support that ? The Yamaha SY77 supports micro-tuning, and can do micro tuning updates through SysEx, in a format similar to the tuning standard messages. Neil -- Neil Johnson :: Computer Laboratory :: University of Cambridge :: http://www.njohnson.co.uk http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~nej22 ---- IEE Cambridge Branch: http://www.iee-cambridge.org.uk ----

Thanks to all of those whoe replied. Now it is possible to send the information through Midi "unlike what someone said in his reply"!. You can find the feature in Cubase under functions, transpose where it gives an option for semitones for individual keys. So the question is still the same, how can I do this in logic? Please explain it in a simple non technical lingo, i.e. 1- goto menue 2-, 3-. Just as a reminder. I am using LAM 5 on G4 533, Diggi 001 for audio, midiman sport 2x2, Roland G-1000 & Ensoniq TS-10 keyboards. I look forward for your input. Thanks!

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, "Osama Ali <osama12@y...>" <osama12@y...> wrote: > Thanks to all of those whoe replied. Now it is possible to send the > information through Midi "unlike what someone said in his reply"!. > You can find the feature in Cubase under functions, transpose where > it gives an option for semitones for individual keys. I looked in Nuendo, I think it's the same as Cubase, and it does give you the ability to transpose a range, ie one note if you want, but only by semitones. If you're after playing in alternative scales and tuning, you need at least the ability to tune by cents and ideally fractions of a cent. It's correct that there is no standard modifier to the Note On message that would achieve this, other than playing games with Pitchbend. The good news is that you can pick up a K2000 pretty cheap these days or an old TX81Z for almost nothing, and they'll do the job. Randall PS: Check out, "Tuning In: Microtonality in Electronic Music" by Scott Wilkinson. There's also a healthy presence of Microtonal websites out there.

At 03:57 PM 2/9/2003 +0000, you wrote: >I looked in Nuendo, I think it's the same as Cubase, and it does give >you the ability to transpose a range, ie one note if you want, but >only by semitones. If you're after playing in alternative scales and >tuning, you need at least the ability to tune by cents and ideally >fractions of a cent. I really think this is the job of the sound modules. Even if you could make a way to send pitch bend messages for tunings, how do you know the module is set to the right pitch bend range. If it's set to 12 notes instead of 2, that's gonna have a big affect. I also question how well MIDI could handle doing this on fast/complex passages (I have never tried). And lastly, how could it handle chords? I didn't read every message of this thread so if this was already mentioned, my bad... Colin Miller

> And lastly, how > could it handle chords? > I didn't read every message of this thread so if > this was already mentioned, my bad... It was described in quite some detail here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/logic-users/message/131853 but i assume the original poster didn't even bother to read :o( Christian

Colin Miller wrote: > I really think this is the job of the sound modules. Even if you could > make a way to send pitch bend messages for tunings, how do you know the > module is set to the right pitch bend range. If it's set to 12 notes > instead of 2, that's gonna have a big affect. I guess you _could_ send a MIDI "Pitch Bend Sensitivity" (Registered Parameter Number 00 00) message to define the pitch bend range at the start and work from there. Neil -- Neil Johnson :: Computer Laboratory :: University of Cambridge :: http://www.njohnson.co.uk http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~nej22 ---- IEE Cambridge Branch: http://www.iee-cambridge.org.uk ----

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, "christianobermaier < christianobermaier@y...>" <christianobermaier@y...> wrote: CHRIIS, FIRST I'VE READ YOUR POST! Thank you and couldn't get it to work as of yet. > > Can any one tell me how can I record & playback > > midi in logic with alternative scales? > > Several ways to achieve this. > > The easiest way is outside Logic, when you simply use your > sound generators' microtuning abilities. As mentioned, logic tends to over write any alternative scales once it is running as the controler. > If you can't go that way, then you first should be aware that MIDI > does not provide means for note specific tuning information. I am affraid it does! Check out the external tunning box offered by GEM "General Music" which sends tuning info to any GM sound synth. Yes it is just a midi in/out box! > So you have to use pitch-bend info, which again is active for all > notes on a specific channel. Don't worry about chords, let's talk monophonic now. > This in turn leads you to distinction between either strictly > monophonic single lines, which would involve setting up a > transformer that maps each note to a specific amount of realtime > pitch-bend, or polyphonic parts which would involve redirecting > the twelve notes of the keyboard octaves to twelve MIDi channels > by using a some transformers' input condition maps and then > having those twelve separate streams continuously > pitch-bended to the desired amount. You'd then use twelve > channels on your sound generator, obviously. Some transformers???!!! Can you be specific please? Please tel me how exactly can I do this in logic. i.e. go to environment, new..., connect so and so, ext. > > Which way are you gonna take ? I wold take what ever way that would work. > > has been > >there at least since Cubase VST 3.5 > > How do they do it ? I am not technical, check it out under transpose. you will find there world scales as well as an option to tune each key individually. Thank you, Osama > > Christian

On a fine day, 12-02-2003, Osama Ali <osama12@...> wrote: > > If you can't go that way, then you first should be aware that MIDI >> does not provide means for note specific tuning information. > >I am affraid it does! It doesn't. >Check out the external tunning box offered by GEM "General Music" >which sends tuning info to any GM sound synth. Yes it is just a >midi in/out box! Check out the official midi-specs (e.g. on my website). Remember that General MIDI *is not* MIDI. It is a MIDI-based convention, which _some_ manufacturers adopted. This isn't relevant though. What matters is: does your synth support some sort of "individual note tuning" messages or not? If yes: use them. If no: you're either out of luck or have to resort to using pitchbend messages. -- Hendrik Jan Veenstra <h@...> Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com

Hendrik Jan Veenstra wrote: > On a fine day, 12-02-2003, Osama Ali <osama12@...> wrote: > > > > If you can't go that way, then you first should be aware that MIDI > >> does not provide means for note specific tuning information. > > > >I am affraid it does! > > It doesn't. Oh? What about: http://www.midi.org/about-midi/tuning.shtml "MIDI Tuning Specification" > Check out the official midi-specs (e.g. on my website). Or better still, from the official MIDI Manufacturers website (see above link) > Remember that General MIDI *is not* MIDI. It is a MIDI-based > convention, which _some_ manufacturers adopted. So that fact that it is a joint standard adopted by both the MIDI Manufacturers Association and the Japan MIDI Standards Committee means it is not a standard? Odd. See here: http://www.midi.org/about-midi/gm/gminfo.shtml > This isn't relevant though. What matters is: does your synth support > some sort of "individual note tuning" messages or not? If it is GM2 compatible, then it will support MIDI tuning messages. > If no: you're either out of luck or have to resort to using pitchbend > messages. True :-( Maybe an opportunity to create a transformer of other software package that maps an arbitrary scale onto the "standard" scale + pitch bend data. Quite a challenge though! Cheers, Neil -- Neil Johnson :: Computer Laboratory :: University of Cambridge :: http://www.njohnson.co.uk http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~nej22 ---- IEE Cambridge Branch: http://www.iee-cambridge.org.uk ----

On a fine day, 12-02-2003, Neil Johnson wrote: >Hendrik Jan Veenstra wrote: > >> On a fine day, 12-02-2003, Osama Ali <osama12@...> wrote: >> >> > > If you can't go that way, then you first should be aware that MIDI >> >> does not provide means for note specific tuning information. >> > >> >I am affraid it does! >> >> It doesn't. > >Oh? What about: > > http://www.midi.org/about-midi/tuning.shtml > >"MIDI Tuning Specification" Interesting indeed. However, this is an extension to the original midi-specs. It is therefore not implemented in many midi-conforming machines. Second, when reading things like "Details about implementing these messages can dramatically impact compatibility with other products.", or "The specification does not attempt to dictate how any manufacturer implements microtuning", or "The standard also strongly suggests, but does not enforce, an exponential (constant cents) rather than linear (constant Hertz) tuning resolution across the instrument's frequency range.", one can wonder how much of a standard this "standard" is. Building e.g. a Logic environment to support such a standard would be (next to) impossible, since too much is left to the discretion of the individual manufacturer. That's the problem with such sysex-based extensions to the original standard: too much is dependent on the manufacturer. Hell, even with the original standard this problem is present. A 128-step velocity-curve can vary dramatically from one brand to the next. I've had machines who had an effective velocity range of about 70, since the first 60 values were way belkow pianissimo... So if you rely on cross-machine compatibility w.r.t. something as simple as velocity-to-volume, you're in for a nasty surprise. I don't even want to think of what might happen w.r.t. micro-tunings... :-) > > If no: you're either out of luck or have to resort to using pitchbend >> messages. > >True :-( Maybe an opportunity to create a transformer of other software >package that maps an arbitrary scale onto the "standard" scale + pitch >bend data. Quite a challenge though! Not at all. If a synth supports 14-bit pitchbend data (and if that resolution is sufficient for your purposes), and if monophonic use suffices, then using pitchbend for microtunings is rather trivial. Every value-increase in pitchbend corresponds to an exact change in tuning, etc, etc. Simple mapping. -- Hendrik Jan Veenstra <h@...> Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com

> Neil Johnson wrote: > > http://www.midi.org/about-midi/tuning.shtml > >"MIDI Tuning Specification" Hendrik Jan Veenstra wrote: > Interesting indeed. However, this is an extension to the original > midi-specs. It is therefore not implemented in many midi-conforming > machines. True---but then what standard _is_ fully implemented by all instances of it? Very few that I can think of (VST is a fine example of a "standard" that is not fully implemented, nor even fully documented by the creators, let alone developers). *Sigh* real world strikes again... such is the price of progress. And now there's talk of VST 3... "New standard, move along, sorry sir were you standing on that carpet?" > Second, when reading things like "Details about implementing these > messages can dramatically impact compatibility with other products.", or > [snipped] > ... one can wonder how much of a standard this "standard" is. Here at least technology comes to the rescue---just take a peek under the bonnet of modern synths or any decent-sized DAW and you'll find _plenty_ of processing power more than capable of handling the minor intricacies of controlling digital oscillators. In fact, implementing micro-tonal tables is actually quite simple (done it myself in hardware synthesizers) involving a simple, and fast, table lookup to work out the value to control digital oscillators. (Oops, getting a bit technical here, getting mixed up with the synth-diy list :-) > Building e.g. a Logic environment to support such a standard would be > (next to) impossible, since too much is left to the discretion of the > individual manufacturer. Then again, since you suggest that so few currently implement it as the standard suggests, then it might be a good time to start asking for it. In fact I'll go one step further: to all the soft-synth developers on this list (and there are a few :-) how much effort (roughly) would it be to implement micro-tonal tables in your oscillators? I guess you already have some mapping from MIDI + Pitchbend to some number to control your numerical oscillators, so how much extra effort involved in adding another mapping table? Lets say you have 32 steps per semitone, spread over the full 128 MIDI notes (0-127), then you would need a 4,096-entry table (maybe a bit of linear interpolation to smooth out the steps if needed). And a bit of extra code in the MIDI interpreter to handle a couple of SysEx messages. The default table contents would be the usual equal temperament tuning scale (or some other "default" setting). > That's the problem with such sysex-based extensions to the original > standard: too much is dependent on the manufacturer. What isn't :-) > Hell, even with the original standard this problem is present. A > 128-step velocity-curve can vary dramatically from one brand to the > next. I've had machines who had an effective velocity range of about > 70, since the first 60 values were way belkow pianissimo... I think we're heading off into synthesizer politics here... but I agree with your point. > So if you rely on cross-machine compatibility w.r.t. something as simple > as velocity-to-volume, you're in for a nasty surprise. I don't even > want to think of what might happen w.r.t. micro-tunings... :-) Wendy Carlos is a strong proponent of alternative tuning scales, and a lot of her work has been fed back into the synth designers (notably Yamaha and Kurzweil), so there is hope. > >Maybe an opportunity to create a transformer of other software package > >that maps an arbitrary scale onto the "standard" scale + pitch bend > >data. Quite a challenge though! > > Not at all. If a synth supports 14-bit pitchbend data Careful here---many synths do various nasty tricks, such as only use 7 bits or 10 bits *shudder* ... apply what you said above about "conforming" to standards. > ... and if monophonic use suffices, then using pitchbend for > microtunings is rather trivial. Every value-increase in pitchbend > corresponds to an exact change in tuning, etc, etc. Simple mapping. But an added cost of 1ms latency (3 MIDI bytes for each pitchbend message) for almost every note. Not to mention the potential effect of any portamento might have :-) Then again, might make for some _very_ interesting music indeed! Anyway, I think this is getting a bit technical and OT. MIDI is fun, but its rather like RS232---a standard that is interpreted in so many interesting and varied ways :-) Cheers, Neil -- Neil Johnson :: Computer Laboratory :: University of Cambridge :: http://www.njohnson.co.uk http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~nej22 ---- IEE Cambridge Branch: http://www.iee-cambridge.org.uk ----

>> So you have to use pitch-bend info, which again >> is active for all notes on a specific channel. >Don't worry about chords, let's talk monophonic now. >Can you be specific please? Here you go: - Open the environment and locate the connection between the 'Physical Input' and the 'SequencerIn' - Click on the connection, make sure that nothing else is selected and hit the delete key. The line will disappear. - Create a Monitor object from the New menu. - Name this Monitor "Macro-In" without the quotes. Name it exactly like that, we'll see later why. - Create a copy of this Transformer by option-dragging it to the right. - Name this new transformer "Note > PPress". The exact naming doesn't matter this time, though it's useful to remind you later what it does. - Create one further copy of one Transformer, place it to the right of "Note > PPress" and name it "Pitch > Cha" - Create a Channel Splitter from the New menu and place it to the right of "Pitch > Cha" - Create one further Transformer, name it "Retune C" and place it to the right of the Channel Splitter - Create one further Monitor object from the New menu, place it to the right of "Retune C" and name it exactly "Macro-Out" - Cable those eight objects serially, starting at the 'Physical Input' (make sure you use its topmost 'SUM' outlet) through 'Macro-In', 'Note > PPress, etc to the 'Sequencer In'. Make sure you use the '1' outlet of the Channel Splitter, *not* its 'SUM'. Now when you play some notes, you should see them both at the In and at the Out monitors. - Open the 'Note > PPress' Transformer by double-clicking it. - Set the Transformer's mode by choosing 'Apply Operation - Filter non-matching events' - Set the Conditions' Status to 'Note' and the Vel parameter to 'Unequal 0'. This makes the transformer react to notes only, preferably Note-Ons, to be specific. You want your notes to stay in tune even when you let go of the key, right ? But there is an invisible safety feature in Logic which keeps you from separating the Note-Ons from their matching Note-Offs, since this would normally produce hanging notes. - To get over this, set the Operations' Status to 'Fix' and 'PPress', which will transform incoming notes to poly pressure, thereby releasing that catch and feeding *only* Note-Ons into the process. - Since we want all octaves of one note to be corrected by the same amount, we have to remap all Note Pitches to a recurring pattern of 0-11: - Set the Operations' Pitch parameter to 'Use Map'. The map with its two input fields to the lower left will appear. - Click the 'Init' button if you don't see a black triangle ascending from left to right in the map. - The lowest octave is ok already, so skip it by scrolling the left input field to 12. Set the right 'mapped to' field to 0. - Scroll the left field one value up (13) and set its 'mapped to' value to 1. - Scroll the left field one value up (14) and set its 'mapped to' value to 2. - Keep doing this until you reach the next octave (25); remap the following octave to 0-11 again. - Remap all octaves like that to 0-11. This is the most tedious part, but you'll only do it once. - Close the Transformer when you're finished. - Open the 'Pitch > Cha' transformer. - Click on the leftmost of the three black vertical lines so that it connects the upper -1- field with the lower 'Cha' field. This will reroute the twelve different pitches the twelve MIDI channels we'll use in a moment. - Close the Transformer when you're finished. - Open the 'Retune C' Transformer. - Set all four operations to 'Fix'. - Set Operations' Status to PitchBend - Set Operations' Cha to 1 - Set Operations' -1- to 0 (this is Pitchbend LSB ie.fine) - Set Operations' -2- to 64 (this is Pitchbend MSB ie.coarse; 64 is pitch wheel in center position, ie. no detuning) - Close the Transformer when you're finished. - Make 11 copies of that transformer, lined up right below and name them "Retune C#, Retune D" and so on. Note that the output cables got copied as well, which is good. All those cables go to the Macro-Out monitor, right ? - Cable outlets 2-12 of the channel splitter into those 11 copied Transformers (that's why you lined them up in a vertical row, see ?). - The Channel Splitter divides the MIDI stream by channels, that's why we converted Notes to Channels up ahead. - Now for the tasty bit. Adjust each Note's pitch by setting the coarse (-2-) and the fine (-1-) detuning in their respective 'Retune X' Transformers. The exact values depend on your new scale and on the instrument's pitchbend range (this is usually pre-set to 2 semitones, but don't take anything for granted) - Until now we have only converted Notes to PitchBend info, but no actual notes remain after this process, obviously. - Drag one further cable from the Macro-In directly into the Macro-Out. This will take care of all other MIDI events as well. You're done. Why we named the Monitors like we did, how this setup could be made even more adjustable, why we purposefully didn't make the through connection until the end and how this patch can be applied not only to live input are issues we can deal with at another time. Christian

On a fine day, 13-02-2003, christianobermaier <christianobermaier@...> wrote: >- Open the environment and locate the connection between the >'Physical Input' and the 'SequencerIn' >- Click on the connection, make sure that nothing else is >selected and hit the delete key. The line will disappear. > >- Create a Monitor object from the New menu. Make that a transformer, right? Since 2 steps later you have to make a copy of this transformer. Just helping environment-newbies to not get confused... >- Name this Monitor "Macro-In" without the quotes. Name it >exactly like that, we'll see later why. >- Create a copy of this Transformer by option-dragging it to the >right. See ^^^^. There it is :-). [very long and detailed description deleted] Man... making this patch and sending it to the original poster would have been less work than typing in this description, I suppose:-) -- Hendrik Jan Veenstra <h@...> Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com

> Make that a transformer, right? Ahh. Shite. It was ! I changed it later to a Monitor to illustrate things. > Since 2 steps later you have to make > a copy of this transformer. That's what you get when engineering environments at 3:00 am. > Just helping environment-newbies to not > get confused... Which was my goal intitially, an i have failed here. Mea culpa. > Man... making this patch and sending it to the original poster would > have been less work than typing in this description, I suppose:-) Spot on, but then i suppose the educational aspect might well have been like zero, as would have been the net effect of reaching other LUGers interested in the matter. Christian

Thanks to all of you who tried answering this question. I appreciate the time and effort, but I have to tell you that till now I am unable to get it done! "specially that I am new to the environment, though I've been using Logic for a year or so". I found this "tuner" at www.dancetools.com http://www.dancetools.com/download/MicroTon%201.0.zip It claims that it can do the job. though I don't know how to set it up in my system. here is my setup: G4 533, OS 9.2, LAM 5.5, Digi 001 for Audio, Midiman sport 2x2, Roland G-1000 synth & Ensoniq TS-10. Any help with setting up and using this batch is very much appreciated. Thanks!

"Osama Ali <osama12@y...>" <osama12@y...> wrote: > Thanks to all of you who tried answering this question. I appreciate > the time and effort, but I have to tell you that till now I am unable > to get it done! "specially that I am new to the environment, though > I've been using Logic for a year or so". > I found this "tuner" at www.dancetools.com > http://www.dancetools.com/download/MicroTon%201.0.zip > It claims that it can do the job. though I don't know how to set it > up in my system. here is my setup: > G4 533, OS 9.2, LAM 5.5, Digi 001 for Audio, Midiman sport 2x2, > Roland G-1000 synth & Ensoniq TS-10. > Any help with setting up and using this batch is very much appreciated. I checked it out, basically when you enable each note it changes the Status Byte from Hex 90 (Note On) to Hex 91 (don't know what that is). It also strips Hex 80 (Note Off) and replaces it with a 90 or 91 velocity 0. You'd have to check your Roland and Ensoniq MIDI implementation to see how they respond to these messages. I've never seen them. Randall

> I have to tell you that till now I am unable > to get it done! "specially that I am new to the environment, though > I've been using Logic for a year or so". I'm sorry, that i couldn't have been of any actual help for you. As far as my description goes, this is as simple as it gets. I can't teach you how to click or how to use pulldown menus. Christian

On a fine day, 25-02-2003, randallbennett <rt2k@...> wrote: >"Osama Ali <osama12@y...>" <osama12@y...> wrote: >> Thanks to all of you who tried answering this question. I appreciate >> the time and effort, but I have to tell you that till now I am unable >> to get it done! "specially that I am new to the environment, though >> I've been using Logic for a year or so". >> I found this "tuner" at www.dancetools.com >> http://www.dancetools.com/download/MicroTon%201.0.zip >> It claims that it can do the job. though I don't know how to set it >> up in my system. here is my setup: >> G4 533, OS 9.2, LAM 5.5, Digi 001 for Audio, Midiman sport 2x2, >> Roland G-1000 synth & Ensoniq TS-10. >> Any help with setting up and using this batch is very much appreciated. > > >I checked it out, basically when you enable each note it changes the >Status Byte from Hex 90 (Note On) to Hex 91 (don't know what that >is). 90 = note on, channel 1; 91 = note on, channel 2. >It also strips Hex 80 (Note Off) and replaces it with a 90 or >91 velocity 0. This is legal: a note-on with velo=0 is treated as a note-off. The reason why you'd want a note on, velo=0 instead of a proper note-off, is that you're allowed to use runing status then. I.e. leave out the status byte if the next msg has the same status -- thus alternating note ons/offs would require the status byte for each event, whereas a sequence of note-ons only (with velo = zero or non-zero) would allow software to skip the status byte after the 1st note. And less bytes = more msgs per second = less latency. >You'd have to check your Roland and Ensoniq MIDI implementation to >see how they respond to these messages. I've never seen them. You've never used a channel beyond 1 then, obviously :-). -- Hendrik Jan Veenstra <h@...> Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com

> basically when you enable each note it changes the > Status Byte from Hex 90 (Note On) to Hex 91 (don't know > what that is). Um, it's a Note On on MIDI channel 2 rather than channel 1 > It also strips Hex 80 (Note Off) and replaces it with a 90 or > 91 velocity 0. That's NoteOn velocity 0, also acting as a NoteOff What i don't get from the orange readme is why you should detune channel 2 by 40-50 cent. 's this some strange eastern scale or what ? Laurent ? Christian

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, Hendrik Jan Veenstra <h@k...> > This is legal: a note-on with velo=0 is treated as a note-off. The > reason why you'd want a note on, velo=0 instead of a proper note-off, > is that you're allowed to use runing status then. I.e. leave out the > status byte if the next msg has the same status -- thus alternating > note ons/offs would require the status byte for each event, whereas a > sequence of note-ons only (with velo = zero or non-zero) would allow > software to skip the status byte after the 1st note. And less bytes > = more msgs per second = less latency. And that is a good thing.... > >You'd have to check your Roland and Ensoniq MIDI implementation to > >see how they respond to these messages. I've never seen them. > > You've never used a channel beyond 1 then, obviously :-). Good God! Stamp me an idiot! That's embarrassing. That's what age does to you... and beer too. You know, the funny thing is that I spend so much time rendering to audio "track by track" that I haven't used much more than channel 1! Those brain cells must have died. Man, I better brush up and get my head back on straight. Randall