From: gpiccolini [mailto:gpiccolini@...] From: Jason Kelton <Jason.Kelton@...> > Hello list : >> I begun to notice somelittle time deviation . I start to wonder why >> reason seems to have better groove than logic ( to my ears ), so I >> linked them via rewire , and play a 4/4 kick with both EXS24 and >> reason´s redrum , and I discovered both were not consistent with the >> timing . can someone explain me why ? > Most all propellerheads products have timing issues. Well its not actually > an issue but an observation I noticed with Rebirth many years ago. What > Rebirth seems to do is 'groove' the beats by -+ 50 samples and randomly. > The EXS is sample accurate, so what you will find is a small float for any > redrum stuff in reason, in comparison to the EXS. What you can do, is > create a groove template from the bounced reason loop and then apply that > midi file to the EXS which will give you the same groove timing then. This is true. I've done extensive testing and there is a definite "groove template" thing happening with Reason and ReBirth. If you want to create a matching template in Logic, be aware that Reason's"groove" operates over an 8-bar period. I've also found that the timing under ReWire is much worse compared to Reason in stand-alone mode. While the groove template still applies, there are large variations in the first beat of each bar. Also, if using Reason's sequencer, the timing of drum parts is tighter if dumped to the sequencer as opposed to running in pattern mode off of the ReDrum. I have not been able to test the timing of Reason when triggered from Logic's sequencer as this no longer works correctly since version 4.7. Mars

From: Jason Kelton <Jason.Kelton@i...> > > Hello list : > >> I begun to notice somelittle time deviation . I start to wonder why > >> reason seems to have better groove than logic ( to my ears ), so I > >> linked them via rewire , and play a 4/4 kick with both EXS24 and > >> reason´s redrum , and I discovered both were not consistent with the > >> timing . can someone explain me why ? From: gpiccolini [mailto:gpiccolini@h...] > > Most all propellerheads products have timing issues. Well its not actually > > an issue but an observation I noticed with Rebirth many years ago. What > > Rebirth seems to do is 'groove' the beats by -+ 50 samples and randomly. > > The EXS is sample accurate, so what you will find is a small float for any > > redrum stuff in reason, in comparison to the EXS. What you can do, is > > create a groove template from the bounced reason loop and then apply that > > midi file to the EXS which will give you the same groove timing then. mars2002@t... wrote: This is true. I've done extensive testing and there is a definite "groove template" thing happening with Reason and ReBirth. If you want to create a matching template in Logic, be aware that Reason's"groove" operates over an 8-bar period. I've also found that the timing under ReWire is much worse compared to Reason in stand- alone mode. While the groove template still applies, there are large variations in the first beat of each bar. Also, if using Reason's sequencer, the timing of drum parts is tighter if dumped to the sequencer as opposed to running in pattern mode off of the ReDrum. I have not been able to test the timing of Reason when triggered from Logic's sequencer as this no longer works correctly since version 4.7. Ok : So : Logic´s groove seems to be the accurate one . So if I like reason´s way I have to make a groove template . Thanks for the replies :-) Now I really miss rewire 2 in windows . Any chance emagic ? :-(

> Ok : > So : Logic´s groove seems to be the accurate one . So if I like > reason´s way I have to make a groove template . Thanks for the > replies :-) > Now I really miss rewire 2 in windows . Any chance emagic ? :-( It might be the easiest to just try out the humanize parameter in the transform window, which actually randomizes grooves to an adjustable amount. I´ve always found this very useful and easy when trying to make things sound a bit more "biological". Also works great on quantized Pianos and Organs. Cheers, Patrick

From: Jason Kelton <Jason.Kelton@i...> > > > Hello list : > > >> I begun to notice somelittle time deviation . I start to wonder why > > >> reason seems to have better groove than logic ( to my ears ), so I > > >> linked them via rewire , and play a 4/4 kick with both EXS24 and > > >> reason´s redrum , and I discovered both were not consistent with the > > >> timing . can someone explain me why ? From: gpiccolini [mailto:gpiccolini@h...] > > > Most all propellerheads products have timing issues. Well its not acctually > > > an issue but an observation I noticed with Rebirth many years ago. What > > > Rebirth seems to do is 'groove' the beats by -+ 50 samples and randomly. > > > The EXS is sample accurate, so what you will find is a small float for any > > > redrum stuff in reason, in comparison to the EXS. What you can do, is > > > create a groove template from the bounced reason loop and then apply that > > > midi file to the EXS which will give you the same groove timing then. > mars2002@t... wrote: > > This is true. I've done extensive testing and there is a > definite "groove template" thing happening with Reason and ReBirth. > If you want to create a matching template in Logic, be aware that > Reason's"groove" operates over an 8-bar period. I've also found that > the timing under ReWire is much worse compared to Reason in stand- > alone mode. While the groove template still applies, there are large > variations in the first beat of each bar. Also, if using Reason's > sequencer, the timing of drum parts is tighter if dumped to the > sequencer as opposed to running in pattern mode off of the ReDrum. I > have not been able to test the timing of Reason when triggered from > Logic's sequencer as this no longer works correctly since version 4.7. > Ok : > So : Logic´s groove seems to be the accurate one . So if I like > reason´s way I have to make a groove template . Thanks for the replies :-) > Now I really miss rewire 2 in windows . Any chance emagic ? :-( TO GET A NICE GROOVE midi timing in Logic, is it a "recommended" requierment to have a emagic midi interface like unitor ? I have a midi time piece, and now only using Logic, (USB), any thoughts?

>> Ok : >> So : Logic´s groove seems to be the accurate one . So if I like >> reason´s way I have to make a groove template . Thanks for the >> replies :-) >> Now I really miss rewire 2 in windows . Any chance emagic ? :-( From: "patcox1960" <patcox@...> > It might be the easiest to just try out the humanize parameter in the > transform window, which actually randomizes grooves to an adjustable > amount. I´ve always found this very useful and easy when trying to > make things sound a bit more "biological". Also works great on > quantized Pianos and Organs. i'm not trying to be sarcastic at all, not a bit, but - to me, the best way to humanize stuff is to put a human on the job. just play it urself and fool around with stronger or looser quantize values. <disclaimer> i came into this thread on this post, so i have'nt been following the discussion at all, sorry if i misunderstood the whole thing. </disclaimer> peace, nassau

--- In logic-users@y..., "ferisella" <ferisella@y...> wrote: > TO GET A NICE GROOVE midi timing in Logic, is it a > "recommended" requierment to have a emagic midi interface > like unitor ? I have a midi time piece, and now only using > Logic, (USB), any thoughts? I can't speak for the situation on Windows. If you're on Mac OS 9, not using OMS will improve timing jitter by 50% or more. My MT4 is a shitload tighter than my MTP AV USB, which must use OMS. Presumably an AMT8 or Unitor8, which have midi timestamping ability, would be tighter still. In OS X, the situation may be different, since CoreMidi supposedly supports timestamping at the OS level. Thus in OS X, the MTP may well be tighter than the MT4, but I haven't tested this yet, since Logic on OS X has a fair way to go before it can match Logic on OS 9 for performance and functionality. John Pitcairn ------------------------------------------------------------------ Midi controller learn in Logic. Soft takeover. Lots of memories. Tracks remember control assignments. Write track automation. Fadermapper demo: http://www.revolver.co.nz/fadermapper/ ------------------------------------------------------------------

> --- In logic-users@y..., "ferisella" <ferisella@y...> wrote: > > TO GET A NICE GROOVE midi timing in Logic, is it a > > "recommended" requierment to have a emagic midi interface > > like unitor ? I have a midi time piece, and now only using > > Logic, (USB), any thoughts? From: "John Pitcairn" <johnp@...> > I can't speak for the situation on Windows. > If you're on Mac OS 9, not using OMS will improve timing jitter by > 50% or more. My MT4 is a shitload tighter than my MTP AV USB, > which must use OMS. Presumably an AMT8 or Unitor8, which > have midi timestamping ability, would be tighter still. > In OS X, the situation may be different, since CoreMidi > supposedly supports timestamping at the OS level. Thus in OS > X, the MTP may well be tighter than the MT4, but I haven't tested > this yet, since Logic on OS X has a fair way to go before it can > match Logic on OS 9 for performance and functionality. I've been having my head done in by a little timing prob too. Y'see I've got this loop. It's only little: 1bar in fact. Made by mixing down some of the beat. Then I'm dropping all sorts of bits over it mainly from the DR008 v1.1 and Kontakt v1,2. Sometimes the whole thing is as tight as the proverbial Nun but other times the Kick from the DR008 and the one in the loop are phasing each other out of existence. The claps would be good for a bunch six-year olds in a music lesson but for a "pro sequencer" they're a mess. Now here's the bit that took some working out. When I first start up Logic it plays perfect but just the first time! Hit 'stop' 'start' and it's out again: even playing from the top, things are flamming and phasing all over the place. Reload the tune: no improvement BUT change a parameter re the audio driver causing Logic(5.3) to 'Relaunch' and I get my 1 perfect play again. This was not a prob in 5.1 and I don't think it was in 5.2 Any clues??? Any one else getting this?

> It might be the easiest to just try out the humanize parameter in the > transform window, which actually randomizes grooves to an adjustable > amount. I´ve always found this very useful and easy when trying to > make things sound a bit more "biological". Also works great on > quantized Pianos and Organs. > Cheers, > Patrick Thanks , but I´m trying to get a machine groove . My human side is still working ( most of the time... ) :-)