So for those of us who refuse to to be bullied into getting a mac, is it time for us PC Logic users to start our own forum? I mean, how long will it be before any questions asked will be responded with, "Well, since your not using a mac, I dont know how to help you." Yes, some of us will stay with the windows version of Logic because we know the program and/or have invested a lot of time/money/equipment regardless of the fact that we wont have support from Emagic. Us PC Logic holdouts need to stick together, so we have some sort of support system. Opinions? Ideas? Suggestions? What do you think? ~Poor Lizard

"poor_lizard" <poor_lizard@y...> wrote: > So for those of us who refuse to to be bullied into getting a mac, is > it time for us PC Logic users to start our own forum? I could not agree with you more. I think the reality of the situation is that maybe five or ten percent will switch to Mac and the rest of us will use Logic for as long as we can in it's present form and then move on to another program when one becomes viable. We could use another forum for the issues we will all be facing in the months/years to come. And we could also have an honest discussion about where we see things headed in PC music production. Unix anyone?

> > So for those of us who refuse to to be bullied into getting a mac, is > > it time for us PC Logic users to start our own forum? "poor_lizard" <poor_lizard@y...> wrote: > I could not agree with you more. I think the reality of the > situation is that maybe five or ten percent will switch to Mac and > the rest of us will use Logic for as long as we can in it's present > form and then move on to another program when one becomes viable. We > could use another forum for the issues we will all be facing in the > months/years to come. And we could also have an honest discussion > about where we see things headed in PC music production. Unix > anyone? So why move?? If there are plenty of pc users here, and we use the [LAW] tags: all should co-exist in harmony. We don't have to act like rival gangs-This ain't mac turf yet (envisioning west side story with users battling, swinging mice and keyboards at each other =) sam

> So why move?? If there are plenty of pc users here, and we use > the [LAW] tags: all should co-exist in harmony. We don't have to act Agreed. There is a wealth of info here and the power and support comes with numbers. Split the list and you are merely left with half the resources. There will be good cross platform info on this list for years to come. Not to mention the great people I have met over the years. You may also want to know how Logic looks on a Mac as it continues to develop. best, Nathan ___ Nathan Rosenberg Music Production www.doghouseNYC.com The Doghouse NYC www.pianoVOX.com

> So why move?? If there are plenty of pc users here, and we use > the [LAW] tags: all should co-exist in harmony. We don't have to act > like rival gangs-This ain't mac turf yet (envisioning west side story > with users battling, swinging mice and keyboards at each other =) > sam I don't think we really NEED to move, it would just make things a little easier. I could be wrong but it seems that the last two months the list has become increasingly Mac-centric. It would seem to be just a further and even more specific classification of a group that has already been divided by an outside force (Apple). I don't think a lot of people wanted this to happen but it has come to pass and the divergent needs of the users will become more and more apparent. Do we really need to read 90 posts a day to see the 15 [LAW] headers that apply to us? Do Mac users care about our soon to be lengthy discussions of Unix/PC developments. As time goes on more and more people will buy the Mac version of Logic. More new users will enter the group. Those users will be Mac users. Do you see where this is headed? We could all stay but it seems that the growing environment of Mac sided posts could make the environment seem less hospitable to PC users and our specific needs. Human nature would suggest that people react to what they see going on around them, and an environment that does not reflect your perspective is not going to be conducive to open dialogue. I just remember a year or two ago when there was so much useful information and dialogue in this group that almost every day I would learn something new or at least hear about a feature or practice that was new to me. I don't really see that anymore on the PC side.

--- In logic-users@y..., "Sam Greene" <sagreene@n...> wrote: > So why move?? If there are plenty of pc users here, and we use > the [LAW] tags: all should co-exist in harmony. We don't have to > act like rival gangs-This ain't mac turf yet (envisioning west side > story with users battling, swinging mice and keyboards at each > other =) I agree as well. Although many people mark their posts LAM or LAW, a surprising number of them could be GEN instead, as right now Logic still is very much the same on both platforms. I try to convert threads to GEN whenever possible, but we admins don't always have enough spare time to do that. Until Logic becomes vastly different on both platforms, I don't mind having to waid through a few LAM posts talking about OMS etc to get great GEN Logic tips that happen to be marked as LAM. For what its worth, at least half and maybe more of the 8 admins use Windows.. Another thing: I at least have been posting less techie LAW hardware stuff here, after finding a few other great Windows hardware lists, such as PCDAW (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PCDAW/join ) and the RME Newsgroup (newserver news.x-networks.de username "rme" password "forum" I believe, might be audio for the passwd but I think its "forum", the paritcular newsgroup is rme-audio.forum but it should be the only one visible using that username/password). All the best, Jeremy Martin; sadus@... http://www.carrollsweb.com/sadus

Thanks to all who responded. This is exactly the reason I posted this. I admit I'm trying to light a fire under peoples asses and ignite more discussions (you might see similar posts from me on different logic boards on the net.) I definately see all the points made. I suppose it's best to take a wait and see attitude. But as time rolls on and as the gap between versions and features widens, we should revisit this question periodically. PC tech support from emagic will naturally cease to exist, but I'm not even really worried about that. My hope is that PC users of Logic will have solidarity and share information. If we network together we can keep our versions of the software viable for many years to come. After the initial furor over the apple acquisition, lately there seems to be a bit of a lull in the discussions about it. Many of the initial posts (not only in here, obviously) have been of the flavor, "Well, that sucks. I'm gonna go look at Cakewalk and Steinberg's offerings!", instead of "Ok. That really does suck. What are we gonna do about it?" Logic works NOW and we dont want to switch to another program in the course of a short few weeks. Other than acts of god (Flood, fire, hurricane), there isnt any pressing reason for me to switch or even upgrade at this point. Furthermore, in these troubled economic times, there is no way I'm making a platform switch now. Not to groan, but I've already put many hours of "research" (actual production hours) in almost every popular midi/audio package for pcs (and macs btw) - Sonar(PC), Cubase, and Logic. In my observation, Logic has always been more stable (less crashes) and this is exactly the reason that so many of us have gravitated towards it. This comes from using many different machines, but always top of the line audio-dedicated-only PC's with boat loads of ram and pro-quality sound cards. But mind you, all three aint perfect in terms of system crashes. Logic simply tends to be the "less guiltiest." ~Poor Lizard

From: "poor_lizard" <poor_lizard@...> > Thanks to all who responded. This is exactly the reason I posted this. I admit I'm trying to light a fire under peoples asses and ignite more discussions (you might see similar posts from me on different logic boards on the net.) [Admin: Excessive re-quoting removed.] ----------------------------------------- I'm with you on this I have no resources to go throwing more money at a new system or software alternatives I just don't like Cubase - I've tried a few crackz over the years - and it's like a toy to me - hate it. Logic has always been the program - I know - spent hours with etc etc Logic 5.3 is working quite nicely here - now I got my asio drivers sorted with my delta 1010 I'll stick with what I've got - I'm sure there'll be upgrades to the Mac side which we won't get - which will piss me off bigtime- but until technology moves on far enuff for me to feel somewhat prehistoric with my Logic 5 - I won't spend another cent.

Jeremy Martin wrote: > I agree as well. Although many people mark their posts LAM or LAW, a > surprising number of them could be GEN instead, as right now Logic > still is very much the same on both platforms. I set up a filter which sends all LAM messages to the trash. Maybe I'll do the same for the GEN. Question : Does anyone know how to enter midi data manually and SIMPLY ? That is one reason why I still use Notator for its ease of operation. Vance Lendich *** Doghouse Studio *** Brisbane

> From: idieudie [mailto:idieudie@...] > > Do we really need to read 90 posts a day to see the 15 > [LAW] headers that apply to us? Perhaps you should opt for individual emails, instead of the digest. Then use an email client with decent filters/views, and get up to speed with using those features. The thought of regularly perusing through a digest of anything that has more than a handful of items... life is too short ;) > I just > remember a year or two ago when there was so much useful information > and dialogue in this group that almost every day I would learn > something new or at least hear about a feature or practice that was > new to me. I don't really see that anymore on the PC side. This might be a function of you using and learning the program over time. And given that the product (LAW) is now virtually unchanging, learning the existing functions will be a finite task. Personally, I did the Cubase SX crossgrade, but missed too much in LAW 4 Gold. There are things I loved about SX, but I would pay hundreds of dollars for the singular ability to double click on a MIDI sequence within SX, and edit the data within Logic's editors. But that's not an option. So, I bit the bullet and took advantage of the clearance prices on LAW 5 Platinum. With my 2002 machine to run it on, I've got an adequate platform to do what I want for the next couple years. I get the impression some people don't want to buy a Mac out of spite. <self-edited my opinion of that way of thinking>. When the time comes to upgrade or crossgrade my software, I'll make a choice, and if that entails a MAC, so be it. If I had to bet today, I'd bet that I'll be buying a Mac and Logic 6+. It's just bound to be a killer product, but probably not the only one. Regards, - Brian