dear Malcolm & list & Emagic i have just come back from a 3 week tour of Portugal. I also set up a portable Logic studio and recorded 6 tracks with a band via Motu's 896. All worked really well. But after spending some really scarey time wondering where the dongle had gone too. I have this to say: Two keys need to come with this update. This is the end of the story, one key is really rediculous. After unpacking, and moving the gear around a few times, the key got misplaced for a few hours. It is this very small thing that you put in the USB connection. It is not a large device that sits in a rack. YOu let your guard down. Like with house keys. It is one thing when you have a studio setup and you leave everything there, but let me tell you, it really scared us. Enough so that we backed up everything to Protools FREE after the tracks were cut. SO yes after my "live in the field" research there is a need for two keys initially and then the ability to replace a lost one at a cost of about $100. This is not a second license, just the ability to use the key with your access codes. I don't want a second license, just want to keep working. Emagic if you really believe it's your loyal customers who would be stealing from you, you are not setting a very good precident. YOu have a great product. Have some faith that you can trust your customers. I realize you are running a business, but we are not software pirates, we are just trying to make a living thru music. Let's work together. Gary Pozner NYC

Is it me or is this subject line becoming a bit vulgar? ;-) Colin Miller

I would have thought that Emagic could stop a lost key from being used with each update of software. If a key is lost or stolen could it not be added to a "black list" thereby protecting Emagics product and protecting uses who loose their key? Replacement keys could then be issued which used your own authorisation codes the old keys would very quickly become worthless. I am also very concerned (And have always had concerns about this issue) the possibility of loosing this very important bit of plastic It could result in me being liable for a major production/deadline blow out. It would be great to know what Emagics response would be to a catastrophe like this in advance of ever needing to know. If you loose your house keys you can always break a window to get in, and then get a new one cut, Car keys you get a new one cut from your spare, Logic keys????????

bru95bg wrote: > > I would have thought that Emagic could stop a lost key from being > used with each update of software. > > If a key is lost or stolen could it not be added to a "black list" > thereby protecting Emagics product and protecting uses who loose > their key? At the Logic5/LC clinic, we were shown a proposed option where the key could be authorized so it would expire after a given time. I don't know whether this is going ahead or not ? Dave Eager

On 6/3/02 11:06 PM, "David Eager" <beager@...> wrote: > At the Logic5/LC clinic, we were shown a proposed option where the key > could be authorized so it would expire after a given time. I don't know > whether this is going ahead or not ? Well, these are the other type of codes (can't remember if they are A's or B's) which are time limited. They are already given out with such things as ES2 and EVOC (12 weeks). So all the proposal really means is, for E-Magic to sell registered users an insurance XS Key for a nominal fee with a time-limited code. If that code can be mathematically related to the main code already registered to the user, that provides E-Magic with extra security that the second key won't be misused (under the worst circumstances, it can only be misused until it expires!) And I thought that $50 US seemed fair... Malcolm ----------------- Malcolm Payne Music NYC http://www.malcolmpayne.com

> If you loose your house keys you can always break a window to get in, > and then get a new one cut, Car keys you get a new one cut from your > spare, Logic keys???????? There are lots of easily lost things that won't get replaced for free if you lose one: Airline tickets Jewelry That whole crop of new "keychain" hard drives Tickets to a show CDs Your Passport I suggest putting something really big on the keychain end of your XSKey. Gregory

At 21:03 -0700 03.06.02, Gregory Anderson wrote: >I suggest putting something really big on the keychain end of your XSKey. I have my XSKey attached to my key chain. It's that simple. -- Beste Gruesse - best regards, Michael Haydn EMAGIC Soft- und Hardware GmbH SoundDiver Group Executive Logic Developer (Logic Control integration) Unitor8 Control Project Manager

On 6/4/02 12:03 AM, "Gregory Anderson" <ggaslp@...> wrote: >> If you loose your house keys you can always break a window to get in, >> and then get a new one cut, Car keys you get a new one cut from your >> spare, Logic keys???????? > > There are lots of easily lost things that won't get replaced for free if you > lose one: > > Airline tickets > Jewelry > That whole crop of new "keychain" hard drives > Tickets to a show > CDs > Your Passport > > I suggest putting something really big on the keychain end of your XSKey. Yea, and make sure you don't drop that really big something on it by mistake!! Look, remember what it is that you have purchased. It isn't a piece of jewelry, or tickets to a show, it isn't even a dongle. What you've purchased is a license to use software. You can't "lose" a license. You can lose a license card, driver's license etc. That's just the proof that you are licensed. If that happens, you aren't required to purchase another license (or take your test again!) you simply need a replacement card, for a nominal fee. That's what XSKey is - it's your license card - it's the proof that you bought the license, and are therefore a valid driver of the software :) Hence, if lost, it should be possible to purchase a replacement at a nominal cost. If you can accept that reasoning, it's a very small leap to accept that loyal customers might like this extra XSKey, before something happens (as something inevitably does..) Regards Malcolm ----------------- Malcolm Payne Music NYC http://www.malcolmpayne.com

> And I thought that $50 US seemed fair... Malcolm You realise that comes to about $6000 Australian...I vote they send a free one as a legit backup and in return we will consider investing in their fine product in the future. There, now isnt that fair? dc

Hi Michael, Who cares about knowing ways to safeguard our ESXKey when many of us have yet to receive our codes. Start with complying with Emagic's promise and help those of us who are still waiting to use software already paid for but have fallen victim(s) of your protection system! Registered April (EXS 24 CD sent but returned without explaination) and still waiting (current ESX24 expired and you are costing me money)! After that those of us that are paying for your new 'Protection System' might indeed want to know about the next step in being able to work when, and if, the key fails? In the meantime Emagic should note that I, for one, am taking legal action on the basis that my supplier (Thomann Germany) has failed to sell me software that works and this after complying with your 'Issued' instructions! It's a pity that the legal issue has to be directed to the retailer (a matter of law ... at least here in the UK) rather than yourselves given that you, Emagic, are fully responsible for taking peoples money and, with supreme hyprocacy, tell us all to wait because you can't cope, don't care or worse, don't know what to do, what's going on or how to deal with it (this attitude the product of Emagic's 'Customer Service')! As a matter of interest ... imposing a new, and different sales contract, other than expressed at the time of sale, is not valid in law (UK). When anybody buy's a product they, the seller, are obliged to inform the buyer of the 'Sales Contract' and, as you know, they/you have totally failed in this respect! It's not, at least for me, a very easy thing to have to point out/offend/dig myself in deeper or otherwise express such negative comments about Emagic but ... Emagic ... you have brought it very much on yourselves! I, for one, am totally disgusted and not at all happy with what, by now, I regarded as a complete cock-up!!!!!!! Michael ... I respect you being prepared to 'Put Your Head Up' so please, understand, having done so, where do we go to use software, for which I/we already have the lisence, other than you ... when Emagic refuses to respond to legitimate (Email & other) complaints and you, at least at the moment, have decided to involve yourself in this news group? I/we appreciate your involvment but ... and I'm sure you know the rest? If you are going to involve yourself with this group you should also be aware that you will be, at least by me, one of the Faces/Email versions of Emagic products ... don't be involved if you do not represent Emagic ... if you do ... do not hide under the the 'It's not my department' because you become less than useful and, clearly, you represent a negative aspect of Emagic that is not helpful to my use of the software! Emagic .... Stop being stupid & start being a company that sells/supplies what they promise Very disgusted. very unhappy, and what are you doing with my money (for which no consent was given)? Don't talk about the software unless you know you are talking to ALL those that have paid for it! Otherwise you have very little to say to those of us that loose money whilst you offer no resolution! You are, by any stretch of imagination, involved in Emagic, YOU ... AMONG OTHERS ... have failed us! Get off your butt and start justifying your salary/position or hide behind your 'It's not my area' & therefore .... you know the rest! Put your head up ... take the consequences! Regards ... T [note from admin: please don't turn this into a personal war against the Emagic developers who are on this list]

> -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Haydn [mailto:mhaydn@...] > Subject: Re: [LUG] [GEN] 5.x Dongle your own poll > > > At 21:03 -0700 03.06.02, Gregory Anderson wrote: > >I suggest putting something really big on the keychain end of your XSKey. > > I have my XSKey attached to my key chain. It's that simple. > -- > > Beste Gruesse - best regards, > > Michael Haydn > EMAGIC Soft- und Hardware GmbH > SoundDiver Group Executive > Logic Developer (Logic Control integration) > Unitor8 Control Project Manager > Hi Michael (do you know Meikel Katzengreis? he was a hero of my childhood ;o) Yeah, and I love to crawl under the Studio-desk (I know, I could even buy a Desk-Hub - maybe a good idea for an Emagic-giveaway ;o), after I've polked out all the pocket-fluff of the dongle-connector, and finally got assured, that there is no essential damage to it, by hanging on a bunch of spikey iron ... Sorry, but a simple doorkey costs 2€, my Dongle at least 1200€ (excluding the damage to me, if I couldn't use my studio). I don't want to carry all the time a little treasure in my backpocket! Not that simple, I think. I went searching a Stegosaurs backbone, and now I feel quite safer, after I attached it to my dongle... It's kind of Voodoo, since it protects the dongle even against hardware-failure ;o) Regards, Tim

At 12:27 +0200 04.06.02, Tim.Dylla@... wrote: >Yeah, and I love to crawl under the Studio-desk (I know, I could even buy a >Desk-Hub - maybe a good idea for an Emagic-giveaway ;o), after I've polked >out all the pocket-fluff of the dongle-connector, and finally got assured, >that there is no essential damage to it, by hanging on a bunch of spikey >iron ... This is why I have a hub sitting on the desk for the PC - and my Mac is a TiBook, so there is not such a problem. If you have a desktop Mac, you can connect the XSKey to the keyboard - problem solved. >Sorry, but a simple doorkey costs 2*, Yes, but losing it can get as expensive as losing your XSKey. >my Dongle at least 1200* (excluding >the damage to me, if I couldn't use my studio). I don't want to carry all >the time a little treasure in my backpocket! -- Beste Gruesse - best regards, Michael Haydn EMAGIC Soft- und Hardware GmbH SoundDiver Group Executive Logic Developer (Logic Control integration) Unitor8 Control Project Manager

On 6/4/02 4:20 AM, "gristikballistic" <dc@...> wrote: >> And I thought that $50 US seemed fair... > > Malcolm > > You realise that comes to about $6000 Australian...I vote they send a > free one as a legit backup and in return we will consider investing in > their fine product in the future. There, now isnt that fair? I got about $80 Australian :) , but I get your point! I don't think this should be a freebie, though. Cost of a dongle, registration, packaging etc. I think E-Magic should come up with a fair solution. I also think they're aware that this whole XSKey thing has been a public relations nightmare, and that something like this would restore a lot of lost faith on the part of their loyal customer base. M ----------------- Malcolm Payne Music NYC http://www.malcolmpayne.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Haydn [mailto:mhaydn@...] > Subject: RE: [LUG] [GEN] 5.x Dongle your own poll > At 12:27 +0200 04.06.02, Tim.Dylla@... wrote: > >Yeah, and I love to crawl under the Studio-desk (I know, I could > even buy a > >Desk-Hub - maybe a good idea for an Emagic-giveaway ;o), after > I've polked > >out all the pocket-fluff of the dongle-connector, and finally > got assured, > >that there is no essential damage to it, by hanging on a bunch of spikey > >iron ... > > This is why I have a hub sitting on the desk for the PC - and my Mac > is a TiBook, so there is not such a problem. If you have a desktop > Mac, you can connect the XSKey to the keyboard - problem solved. > see above... > > >Sorry, but a simple doorkey costs 2*, > > Yes, but losing it can get as expensive as losing your XSKey. > I won't complain anymore, when the spare-key for my Software is as cheap as the spare-key for my house ;) > Michael I agree with Malcolm, and with F-erenc also. In fact, I've no problem with my xskey, and everybody who is able to go with logic, should be smart enough to find a solution for his dongle-transport-problem ;o). I only wanted to point out (apologies, I wasn't quite clear and constructive again): please, don't get angry about the guys who fear losing xskey or hardware-failure. For most of us, the xskey is in fact a little treasure. For guys, who don't have the money and also no good connection to their Emagic-support as you (there are a lot! ;o), a damaged dongle is a terrible scenario. So, it's likely human, to react a little bit harsh on your suggestion, since it leaves the feeling of being not recognized - no personal thing at all, I think. IMHO it shows the need to find a handy solution for all. No doubt to say things double, I for one really appreciate you here in the LUG! Regards, Tim

> I won't complain anymore, when the spare-key for my Software is as cheap as > the spare-key for my house ;) The only fault in that argument is that a spare house key doen't entitle you to a 2nd house, where as with Logic, the key basically is the ownership of the software. In other words, I think in Emagic's case, the dongle is the house, and the software is the key. YOu can make many spare copies of the CD as you wish in case it gets damaged or lost, but the dongle is like the property. A hard concept to grasp that I am sure many dissagree with, but that' kind of how I see it, coming from a PT user where the hardware is the foundation of the software. Colin Miller

On 6/5/02 12:50 PM, "Colin Miller" <snoopy@...> wrote: > >> I won't complain anymore, when the spare-key for my Software is as cheap as >> the spare-key for my house ;) > > The only fault in that argument is that a spare house key doen't entitle you > to a 2nd house, where as with Logic, the key basically is the ownership of > the software. In other words, I think in Emagic's case, the dongle is the > house, and the software is the key. YOu can make many spare copies of the CD > as you wish in case it gets damaged or lost, but the dongle is like the > property. A hard concept to grasp that I am sure many dissagree with, but > that' kind of how I see it, coming from a PT user where the hardware is the > foundation of the software. > > Colin Miller > > You NEVER own the software - you own a license to use it. This is legal fact. The dongle is a device to ensure that the license terms are adhered to. Regards Malcolm ----------------- Malcolm Payne Music NYC http://www.malcolmpayne.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Colin Miller [mailto:snoopy@...] > Subject: Re: [LUG] [GEN] 5.x Dongle your own poll > > > > I won't complain anymore, when the spare-key for my Software is > as cheap as > > the spare-key for my house ;) > > The only fault in that argument is that a spare house key doen't > entitle you > to a 2nd house, where as with Logic, the key basically is the > ownership of > the software. In other words, I think in Emagic's case, the dongle is the > house, and the software is the key. YOu can make many spare > copies of the CD > as you wish in case it gets damaged or lost, but the dongle is like the > property. A hard concept to grasp that I am sure many dissagree with, but > that' kind of how I see it, coming from a PT user where the > hardware is the > foundation of the software. > > Colin Miller Hello Colin, You're right, and if you remember, I've never said, that owning a house is a good metapher for owning a piece of software. The only thing that will bring them together is that d#*&%$mned suggested keychain ;o). I only wanted to point out, that I wouldn't like to put spikey iron pieces which cost 2€, together with a piece that costs 1.200€, and that's all! We have all read (and wrote) a lot about the dongle-issue here in the LUG, and there are good solutions for both side needs, I think. So please, don't let us begin from the beginning! In the end, maybe your perspective (dongle as 'house' - like HW PT) points out that little thing which has changed to the old-Dongle Scenario. And that's maybe (beside the centralisation for EVP, EXS, EVOC, ES...), why the people are frightened by possible XSKey-failure. Regards, Tim

> In the end, maybe your perspective (dongle as 'house' - like HW PT) points > out that little thing which has changed to the old-Dongle Scenario. And > that's maybe (beside the centralisation for EVP, EXS, EVOC, ES...), why the > people are frightened by possible XSKey-failure. > > Regards, > > Tim No need to tell me! :-) My dongle cmae 3 days for expiration and the only reason it didn't expire was because of the constant phone calls I made to Emagic (almost daily). I was nearly one of those victoms of the wrath of the XSKey. Even though it was saved in time, the cost of phone bills and loss of peace of mind were distrubing. I will say (which is besides the point of the discussion) that in my case Emagic did go out of their way to make up for the problem. I do still have times when the key is not recognized. Luckily it's usually a matter of pluging it in a different port, then back in the original one again. I fully support the idea of a spare dongle that works for 30 days (and a different color so you dont put the wrong one in), so that the real one can be resolved if something goes wrong. The 30 day one should work for all software, plugs, etc. I guess kinda like the original dongle before it gets its codes. Colin Miller