on 4/29/02 4:03 PM, arahluk wrote: >> The Vpots and >> most of the switches could only be described as toy-like. >> Of >> particular concern are the switches. The silk screened symbols and >> lettering on the switch caps are bound to be worn off in short order >> and the "key cap over tact switch" design will see frequent breakage >> with heavy use or the inadvertent mashing. Well, as far as I can tell, Mackie is using the same parts and silkscreening process they use on the Digital 8 Bus. I've been using one of those consoles since they first came out (I have the third or fourth off the production run), and I hve specified three others for clients, and after four years, every switch and V-pot work just fine, and they get used a lot. All of the silkscreening is also intact, with not even the beginnings of wear. I think that I would be a little more careful about guessing about these things in a public forum like this. Too many people will just take you at your word. Although I had my doubts about the Digital 8 bus, and for some of the same reasons, it has proved me wrong. Garth Hemphill Principal, GLH Design, Inc. Resident Sound Designer, ACT San Francisco USA-829 Sound Designer #0011

In reply to the questions/exceptions to my posted opinion of LC's construction. To all: Yes it's quite obvious the vpots, select switches, etc are the same as the Mackie HUI and D8B. Both are quite popular. My comment reqarding the tact switches and silkscreening have no basis on long term use of the LC or the Mackie units. The observation was based on having once worked as a bench tech repairing pro and MI gear of various origin. That type of switch/button design was somewhat more prone to breakage with heavy use or abuse. The printing of the switch graphics directly onto the key caps without some other layer between the screening and finger contact also resulted in the eventual wearing off of the graphics. Some were more prone to switch breakage or silkscreen wear than others. Fortunately from the couple responses of folks who've owned or used the Mackie products, that seems to not be much of a problem. Maybe Mackie uses the same construction design as described above but has a better manufacturing process. Since their first micro mixers Mackie have paid great attention to the conditions of use their products receive and have effected designs of great reliability and cost effectiveness. Michael: My comment regarding the controls feeling toy-like is purely an aesthetic opinion. I felt that the vpot knobs were rather small and the hard plastic they're made if make them a bit slippery. No big deal. I personally prefer larger rubberized knobs. The flip feature pretty much negates this criticism because if desired the vpots could be used for status only and the faders can be used for input. Again I will say I'm very highly impressed with the quality and feel of the faders. > I think that I would be a little more careful about guessing about >these > things in a public forum like this. Too many people will just take >you at > your word. If I didn't clearly state before, this is all just my personal view. I did actually go and spend some time with the LC before forming these observations so that I wasn't acting on what I've seen in print or viewed on display in the stores. I wasn't trying to make any assumptions or predictions about the long term quality or reliability of the LC. There's no way of making that sort of assesment. Hopefully anyone on the board reading my post will view it as it is intended, as one Logic user's personal opinion on Emagic's new control surface. Everyone should look at what it offers, what it costs, and if it suits them. If Emagic so desired they probably could have OEM'd their control surface from someone like AMS/Neve if they wanted and had it of the build quality of a $500,000 console. I think a resulting $8000 control surface would pull more people's whiskers than me not liking the "feel" of the vpots. The points I raised will and should not cause any concern among Emagic's development staff. The LC is designed exactly for the role and price it's intended for and does so excellently. They will sell a ton of them, many will enjoy them, and hopefully that will make for even more good things to come. Paul

Paul wrote: > Michael: My comment regarding the controls feeling toy-like is > purely an aesthetic opinion. I felt that the vpot knobs were > rather small and the hard plastic they're made if make them a > bit slippery. No big deal. I personally prefer larger > rubberized knobs. The flip feature pretty much negates this > criticism because if desired the vpots could be used for status > only and the faders can be used for input. Again I will say I'm > very highly impressed with the quality > and feel of the faders. Paul and others: I can see what you mean, aesthetically, there's a quite big difference 'quality feel wise' between the faders and the pots, I agree. They seem to work just fine, though (the pots), which is the main thing. One thing that nags me a bit about them is the clicks. I can see the point of having clicks, but it'd been nice if there were more, it feels a bit weird to turn a pot a click which is maybe a 20th of a full rotation, and then the resulting change is only 1/128th of panning movement. This also makes creating rapid pans impossible (as you said, you can just flip the desk, but it's not funny to do pans etc with a vertical fader). At least this feels odd for a guy like me, used to operating 'normal' analog consoles. Then again, I prefer the versatility of the automation system of my little Logic setup over the old SSL G series I normally use! Talk about outdated computers!! :-) The other thing about the pots is the v-pot/s-pot thing. EG: Choosing plugs to insert with these is not very practical, first of all, I've got quite a lot of plugs (Emagics own and a lot of VST stuff, the Waves Platinum range on it own is massive) so scrolling thru all these entries is rather confusing – it's hard to actually find the one you want. When you finally find it, it gets even tougher, cause you gotta hit the same pot to actually select the plug, and if you're not careful it's very easy to accidentally turn the pot a bit while pressing, thereby selecting a complete wrong plug. It'd make more sence if fx. the enter button was used for selecting stuff from 'menus' like this ... Minor problem, though: It still feels more natural to use the mouse for this anyway! :-) Flemming Bloch Mindless Studio Aarhus, Denmark

At 19:38 +0000 30.04.02, flemmingbloch wrote: >Paul and others: I can see what you mean, aesthetically, there's >a quite big difference 'quality feel wise' between the faders and >the pots, I agree. They seem to work just fine, though (the pots), >which is the main thing. One thing that nags me a bit about them >is the clicks. I can see the point of having clicks, but it'd been >nice if there were more, it feels a bit weird to turn a pot a click >which is maybe a 20th of a full rotation, and then the resulting >change is only 1/128th of panning movement. You can freely define the resolution in the control surface preferences. >This also makes >creating rapid pans impossible (as you said, you can just flip the >desk, but it's not funny to do pans etc with a vertical fader). At >least this feels odd for a guy like me, used to operating 'normal' >analog consoles. The V-Pots have a built-in acceleration, i.e. if you turn a V-Pot rapidly, it sends out a higher delta value as if you turn by the same angle slowly. >Then again, I prefer the versatility of the >automation system of my little Logic setup over the old SSL G >series I normally use! Talk about outdated computers!! :-) > >The other thing about the pots is the v-pot/s-pot thing. EG: >Choosing plugs to insert with these is not very practical, first of >all, I've got quite a lot of plugs (Emagics own and a lot of VST >stuff, the Waves Platinum range on it own is massive) so >scrolling thru all these entries is rather confusing – it's hard to >actually find the one you want. We are aware of this. >When you finally find it, it gets even >tougher, cause you gotta hit the same pot to actually select the >plug, and if you're not careful it's very easy to accidentally turn the >pot a bit while pressing, thereby selecting a complete wrong >plug. It'd make more sence if fx. the enter button was used for >selecting stuff from 'menus' like this ... I can see your point, however I have never experienced this problem. -- Beste Gruesse - best regards, Michael Haydn EMAGIC Soft- und Hardware GmbH SoundDiver Group Executive Logic Developer (Logic Control integration) Unitor8 Control Project Manager