Hi. I can only agree with Tim that the "0dB" panning in Logic is the badest choice of panning. I am really dissapointed that V5 still have this clumsy panning. It is just plain silly. First I did some environment just for this purpose (Getting a -3dB dip center) then, for this as well as other reasons, I got myself a analog mixer to be able to mix "normaly". The reason for a panpot is to place things in -two- speakers = not mono compatible.(compatible in the sense it sounds "the same") The following is no attack on f-erece, per se, I just have to make some reflections on what he wrote. f-erenc stated: >When you dynamically pan something from the left through >the centre to the right, a -3dB or -6dB pan law means >that you have what sounds like a "hole" in the centre. This is -not- the case with normal speakers set up for stereo. If you have a hole, the speakers are to far apart. You will, however, get a hole in headphones. Headphone- and speakermix = not the same. f-erenc: >The advantage to the -3dB or better yet, -6dB pan law is >that as you move things out from the centre, they effectively >get louder IN THAT SPECIFIC CHANNEL. Yes, of coarse , to keep the L/R loudness correct and thereby some mono compability. f-erenc: >So when you hit the mono button, those sounds panned to the fringes >aren't as quiet >as they might have been. True but, if doing a mono compatible mix only hitting the mono button is not very good. A mono compatible material must be listened to in -one- speaker with the L and R sum at 3 to 6dB lower than stereo. Then the -3dB panning makes a little more sense, doesn´t it? I think so. f-erenc: >None of the pans laws are more right or wrong than the other >if you consider all methods for mixing. Let´s say I ( and 99.9% of the console makers in the world)think -3dB is, for most physical reasons, "more right" and the others "less right". OK? ;o) f-erenc: >In real life, a sound that passes by you (ie.. pans from left >to right or vice versa) would be loudest as it's immediately in >front of you (ie.. the centre position). So the 0dB pan law >satisfies this nicely. In real life there is no such thing as panning. Panning only changes the volume not the phase and frequency(EQ). Phase is far more important than volume when placing a soundsource in a panorama. Please try the Logic "Dirmixer", Ambisone or Waves S1 instead of the panpot. Far more convincing in stereo and certainly far more mono compatible. Yes, sounds passing by would most likely sound stronger in the center but I call that an effect.Here the Dopfler fenomena is equally important as level. Most mixes I do, the instruments are mostly placed somewhere "static" so -3dB will again suit me better. I for one would pay many dollares for a proper "Pan-PlugIn" taking all the above in account when turning it. Best Lennart -- TAKING CARE of AUDIO(tm) tca@...

>Please try the Logic "Dirmixer", Ambisone or Waves S1 instead >of the >panpot. Far more convincing in stereo and certainly far more >mono compatible. I recently did a mix with the logic direction mixer panning a guitar lead and when I listened on one speaker in mono this guitar was completely canceled out. This showed me that it was indeed changing the phase which means it's not as good for mono compatibility. That lead disappeared for everybody listening across the country on the AM band.

--- In logic-users@y..., Lennart Wåhlin <tca@t...> wrote: > Hi. > I can only agree with Tim that the "0dB" panning in Logic is the > badest choice of panning. > I am really dissapointed that V5 still have this clumsy panning. Hi, the reason I started this topic - maybe "...not professional" was not the right term, "...panning is still limited" would have more apropriate - is because I think that many people just don´t realize this limitation in logic. For sure panning is one of the most important and most basic issues of mixing! And Logic is a really sophisticated product, that should give the pro users the possibility to set up their own panning preferences. Cubase for example allows to choose between 0 dB, -3dB and -6dB curves. Perhaps this topic is not suited well for big marketing campaigns, but it is important!!! So I hope for future changes... cheers, Tim