Hi everybody! One of the first things I learned in my sound-engineering-classes was, that in non brand X mixers panning is done with "constant loudness" which means that if you turn the PAN knob from left to to right, the sound will appear to remain at the same volume (or loudness) while moving from the left to the right. NOT so in Logic. If you do a lot of panning in Logic you constantly have to adjust the volume: If you move a sound from the center to either side you have to push the volume about 3-4 dB, to keep it at the same loudness. And of course you have to reduce it for the same amount if you move it from left or right to the center, otherwise it´s gonna be louder than panned to left or right. For me this is really annoying, because it adds a lot of unnecessary editing to my daily work. Even our small Mackie-Mixers work with "constant loudness" as well as ProTools or Nuendo do (for Cubase I am not sure). So maybe Emagic wants to fix it in one of the next Updates. regards, tim

Logic currently follows the 0dB pan law. This means that the volume is not reduced by any amount when panned in the centre. There are other pan laws used by other mixers: For example, the -6dB pan law means that the volume is reduced by 6dB when the pan is centred compared to either hard left or hard right. There is a valid reason for all the laws (-3dB pan law is probably the only other one I've seen). Although the 0dB pan law is the one I require mostly, it would be nice if the other ones became options in Logic eventually. Here's the disadvantage of the pan laws that aren't "0dB": When you dynamically pan something from the left through the centre to the right, a -3dB or -6dB pan law means that you have what sounds like a "hole" in the centre. In other words, the sound appears to be somewhat further away from you as it passes the centre. So you have to compensate by also dynamically turning up the volume as the pan is happening. In real life, a sound that passes by you (ie.. pans from left to right or vice versa) would be loudest as it's immediately in front of you (ie.. the centre position). So the 0dB pan law satisfies this nicely. The advantage to the -3dB or better yet, -6dB pan law is that as you move things out from the centre, they effectively get louder IN THAT SPECIFIC CHANNEL. So when you hit the mono button, those sounds panned to the fringes aren't as quiet as they might have been. Also, the -3dB/-6dB pan laws presume that instead of having this phantom "centre" channel (which doesn't really exist), that the entire plane from left to right is treated equally. In other words, the listener can hear things equally as well coming from "centre stage" as can "left stage" or "right stage". None of the pans laws are more right or wrong than the other if you consider all methods for mixing. However, the -6dB pan law might either clumsy or perfect for any one specific project. Same goes for the 0dB pan law. Don't let anybody tell you that one is "professional" and one is "amateur". The -6dB pan law specifically and mathematically "corrects" for this apparent loudness change (twice as much signal gives a 6dB boost; LEFT + RIGHT is twice as much signal). The -3dB pan law is, well, a compromise between 0dB and -6dB. f-erenc szabo, smarty pants (Tastes awful, but it works) Z+E+R+O+B+E+A+T "NOW POWERED BY THE MIRACLE OF THE TRANSISTOR!"

On 4/2/02 5:07 AM, Tim "t_hersh2001" <t_hersh2001@...> wrote: > One of the first things I learned in my sound-engineering-classes was, > that in non brand X mixers panning is done with "constant loudness" > which means that if you turn the PAN knob from left to to right, the > sound will appear to remain at the same volume (or loudness) while > moving from the left to the right. NOT so in Logic. <excessive quotes trimmed by Admin> "fixing" this, of course would ruin the backwards compatibility of all previous mixes... Malcolm ----------------- Malcolm Payne Music NYC http://www.malcolmpayne.com

From: "f-erenc szabo" <zerobeat@...> > Logic currently follows the 0dB pan law. This means that the > volume is not reduced by any amount when panned in the centre. AFAIK the "pan law" in Logic is -2,5db, at least with the TDM mixer. Just tested it with a Signal Generator plug-in and PAZ. I´d like a preference adjustment (a la Cubase), where you can set the padding manually. Then you´d only have to be careful to adjust this setting when doing the mix at different locations... Peter --- http://www.merlinsound.de

On 4/2/02 5:07 AM, Tim "t_hersh2001" <t_hersh2001@...> wrote: > > One of the first things I learned in my sound-engineering-classes was, > > that in non brand X mixers panning is done with "constant loudness" > > which means that if you turn the PAN knob from left to to right, the > > sound will appear to remain at the same volume (or loudness) while > > moving from the left to the right. NOT so in Logic. From: "Malcolm Payne" <mpmusicny@...> > "fixing" this, of course would ruin the backwards compatibility of all > previous mixes... It would not if it´s user adjustable to any value as a preference setting. Peter --- http://www.merlinsound.de