Okay, just a little venting..... After spending a week rebuilding my system after Win98 crashed and trashed my HD, I had it running pretty well - I had stripped it down to the basics. Now some bizarre notion possessed me to update Win98 to SR2 since my version isn't completely y2k compliant --- wellll - windows decides to reinstall completely!!! not an update!! this of course causes it to reconfigure EVERYTHING. After I spent many hours tweakind my system, getting both audio cards (DS2416 and MOTU 2408) CORRECTLY installed with updated drivers and to different IRQs (instead of the same one the way windows sets them up!!).... the update just set them back to the same IRQ!! Is windows completely stupid or what? I've had it. I can force one of them back, but not without uninstalling and reinstalling them!! I'm getting a G4 and putting BeOS on my PC for mixdowns (I hear Bias Peak is porting to Be). I wish I knew Bill Gates email, or at least an email to MS tech support. This is completely ridiculous and unacceptable! I have followed update and optimization recommendations and procedures to the letter and still Win98 insists on screwing things up. I am a former Electrical Engineer and Windows frustrates me to no end. I really feel sorry for people with no computer technical expertise. For anyone considering a DAW - don't bother with Windows - I know many of you have Win working fine (I did, for a while) but that may just be luck - the fact that you can't update with confidence, add hardware, or update software without the potential for major problems, just says that it is a waste of time. Apple is back in the growth phase, and BeOS is stable, just not completely useful yet. Now, for some Logic - any word on the 4.0 manuals yet? Dedric Key of D Productions

Don't know about others, but I would be interested in getting updates from you as to how your conversion from PC Hell to Mac Heaven goes. A colleague of mine got fed up with windows and went down to Fry's, bought a G3, went to Guitar center, got a 2408(which included an audio app). He thought he'd found the holy grail. After a week he was back with his PC (still had the 2408), nursing a sore hide from a week of painful crashes, unexplained glitches and extremely disappointed. A turnkey solution it ain't. A panacea apparently it also isn't. His experience was from PC frying pan to Mac fire. Thanks, -Randy Hammon Savage Resurection TrancKat Music "Trance Polka for the next Millennium" Erin & Dedric Terry wrote: > > From: Erin & Dedric Terry <e_dterry@z...> > <SNIP> > I'm getting a G4 and putting BeOS on my PC for mixdowns (I hear Bias > Peak is porting to Be). I wish I knew Bill Gates email, or at least an > email to MS tech support. This is completely ridiculous and > unacceptable! I have followed update and optimization recommendations > and procedures to the letter and still Win98 insists on screwing things > up. I am a former Electrical Engineer and Windows frustrates me to no > end. I really feel sorry for people with no computer technical > expertise. > <SNIP>

I switched to mac from windows feb 1998, now i spend time making music, not configuring my winblows machine. Good move, you won't regret it, you will see why the mac is the machine of choice for music. Graham Erin & Dedric Terry wrote: > From: Erin & Dedric Terry <e_dterry@z...> > > Okay, just a little venting..... > > After spending a week rebuilding my system after Win98 crashed and > trashed my HD, I had it running pretty well - I had stripped it down to > the basics. Now some bizarre notion possessed me to update Win98 to SR2 > since my version isn't completely y2k compliant --- wellll - windows > decides to reinstall completely!!! not an update!! this of course > causes it to reconfigure EVERYTHING. After I spent many hours tweakind > my system, getting both audio cards (DS2416 and MOTU 2408) CORRECTLY > installed with updated drivers and to different IRQs (instead of the > same one the way windows sets them up!!).... the update just set them > back to the same IRQ!! Is windows completely stupid or what? I've had > it. I can force one of them back, but not without uninstalling and > reinstalling them!! > > I'm getting a G4 and putting BeOS on my PC for mixdowns (I hear Bias > Peak is porting to Be). I wish I knew Bill Gates email, or at least an > email to MS tech support. This is completely ridiculous and > unacceptable! I have followed update and optimization recommendations > and procedures to the letter and still Win98 insists on screwing things > up. I am a former Electrical Engineer and Windows frustrates me to no > end. I really feel sorry for people with no computer technical > expertise. > > For anyone considering a DAW - don't bother with Windows - I know many > of you have Win working fine (I did, for a while) but that may just be > luck - the fact that you can't update with confidence, add hardware, or > update software without the potential for major problems, just says that > it is a waste of time. Apple is back in the growth phase, and BeOS is > stable, just not completely useful yet. > > Now, for some Logic - any word on the 4.0 manuals yet? > > Dedric > Key of D Productions > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ONElist members: don't miss out on the latest news at ONElist > Join our community member news update at > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/newsletter5 ">Click Here</a> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi, I'm about to buy a computer dedicated to hard disk recording. This is what I was going to get: PIII450 $220 Asus P3B-F $114 Enlight midtower $69.00 128mb PC133 Sdram Corsair $143.00 ATI 8mg video $45.00 Creative 48X CD-Rom $49.00 US Robotics modem $55.00 Msoft Elite keyboard $25.00 Logitech 3-button mouse $15.00 Windows 98 $85.00 KDS 17" monitor $219.00 Maxtor 8.4 boot drive $110.00 Maxtor 20 GB 7200rpm audio drive $267.00 Build, configure, and test $40.00 Total: $1456 1st question: does this seem good? 2nd question: how would it compare to a G3? 3rd question: how much would a G3 be, with monitor and equivalent hard drives? Any other advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, LW

From: LWa7778623@a... <LWa7778623@a...> Subject: Re: Re: [LUG] OT: Tired of Windows - G4 time >PIII450 $220 <snip> >Total: $1456 >1st question: does this seem good? Yah, these prices are slightly better than what I paid a few months ago for a similar system. >Any other advice would be greatly appreciated. Don't know about the monitor choice, I bought a smaller Sony. I guess the KDS would be OK but the Sony Trinitrons are now and forever have been superior to all others in the same price range. One thing I noticed with lesser monitors is that they're incapable of providing a true "Black". The cheap ones always have an annoying glowing dark grey - I use a black background in a dark studio. The monitor is the most important component of a DAW as far as I'm concerned. No skimping here. Some folks on the list have mentioned problems using Maxtor drives but they've been my vendor of choice for 6 years or so. I've used about a dozen of their various models over the years. If they get really old, they need to be replaced for one reason or another but then so does everything else. Scott

>From: LWa7778623@a... >2nd question: how would it compare to a G3? >3rd question: how much would a G3 be, with monitor and equivalent hard drives? The G3 is an obsolete computer. Try the much more powerful G4 (http://www.apple.com). Admittedly from Intel spokemen, there is no comparison with a current Pentium. Paolo Paolo Tramannoni Via M.L.King, 6/A - 62017 Porto Recanati (Mc) - Italy Phone: +39-071-7591268 - 0347-8177569 - Fax: +39-071-7591268 E-Mail: p.tram@f... - tramannoni@k...

>From: Randy Hammon <randy@t...> > >His experience was from PC frying pan to Mac fire. The common factor here is your colleague. How knowledgeable is your friend on either platform. I find that people are too willing to blame their system woes on the OS or third party software. I think a lot of those problems result from the user's own ineptitude. --JBytes

> The G3 is an obsolete computer. Try the much more powerful G4 > Hi Paolo, Unbelievable!! If you or anyone else has one of these old puppies they want to throw out; I'll take it! -- Eli Krantzberg Nightshift Orchestra Almat Productions

> From: Eli Krantzberg <elik@c...> > >> The G3 is an obsolete computer. Try the much more powerful G4 >> > > Hi Paolo, > > Unbelievable!! If you or anyone else has one of these old puppies they > want to throw out; I'll take it! Unbelievable is right. I just got the G3 450 a few months ago thinking that I'm getting the top-of-the-line Mac that, despite the fast-paced improvement on all the platforms, will last me for a few years (at least). I am so upset that with the same amount of money I spent a couple of months ago, I can now get the fastest G4 (which, BTW, is so much faster by far). Sorry though, I'm not going to be 'throwing' it out any time soon. I'll think about doing that when Mac announces the G5 in about 2 months! JH

LW, You can expect to pay $1600 - $1900 for a similar configuration in the Mac Arena - less, if you are willing to go for a refurbished unit. Keep in mind that Risc based G3 CPU's typically run twice as fast as their Pentium counterparts (usually more than 2x, but 2x is a "safe" comparison), so you may be able to go for a slower G3 than you might think (ex: a low-end beige 300 MHz G3 will typically run slightly faster than a 600 MHZ Pentium). This may save you even more money, and give you greater performance in the process. You can run the KDS monitor (and possibly the Maxtor drive) on a G3. But, with any configuration, you should go with a SCSI 2 or higher drive and bus. With either platform, I would go with an Ultra2Wide scsi card and compatible drive for best results with audio. You can have a screaming fast hard drive, but if your bus only has 10 - 15 Mb/sec throughput, then you are just spinning your wheels (or disk platter) so to speak. The reverse is true as well (to a point). Your scsi UW or higher bus is only as fast as your slowest drive. I have seen many screaming fast Pentium and G3 systems with tons of ram crawling pitifully while trying to write audio via slower ATA or IDE busses and drives. So, to sum up, get the fastest possible drive AND scsi card you can afford - no matter which platform you choose. Hope this helps! Curt Cain C2 Productions Here's the caveat: with either > Message: 23 > Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:17:14 EDT > From: LWa7778623@a... > Subject: Re: Re: OT: Tired of Windows - G4 time > > Hi, > I'm about to buy a computer dedicated to hard disk recording. This is what I > was going to get: > > PIII450 $220 > Asus P3B-F $114 > Enlight midtower $69.00 > 128mb PC133 Sdram Corsair $143.00 > ATI 8mg video $45.00 > Creative 48X CD-Rom $49.00 > US Robotics modem $55.00 > Msoft Elite keyboard $25.00 > Logitech 3-button mouse $15.00 > Windows 98 $85.00 > KDS 17" monitor $219.00 > Maxtor 8.4 boot drive $110.00 > Maxtor 20 GB 7200rpm audio drive $267.00 > Build, configure, and test $40.00 > > Total: $1456 > > 1st question: does this seem good? > 2nd question: how would it compare to a G3? > 3rd question: how much would a G3 be, with monitor and equivalent hard drives? > > Any other advice would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > LW >

logic-users@onelist.com writes: >Unbelievable is right. I just got the G3 450 a few months ago thinking >that >I'm getting the top-of-the-line Mac that, despite the fast-paced >improvement >on all the platforms, will last me for a few years (at least). I am so >upset that with the same amount of money I spent a couple of months ago, I >can now get the fastest G4 (which, BTW, is so much faster by far). Never in the history of personal computers has there been a two year lag before something faster comes out. I can guarantee that the fastest processor in the world today (G4/400) will not be the fastest processor in the world in two *months*. Er, unless Apple gets nuked off the face of the earth, and unless Intel has this shocking new secret technology they're about to unveil. Maybe I still speak so calmly about such things because I'm still making bags of money with my circa 1994 PowerMac 8100/110. f-erenc

I agree. Any user (on either platform) needs to take a few days to totally "geek-out" - use the technical side of their brains for a while to iron out potential problems and learn their gear. Then, they can go back to their creative sides and STAY there. Spend enough time in "GeekLand" up front, and you'll find yourself visiting there less in the long run. The majority of problems most of my clients experience come from trying to learn the gear as they continue to create and meet content delivery deadlines. This is the worst thing you can do - IMHO - in any environment. Curt Cain C2 Productions > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 22:02:30 PDT > From: "Jaeh Bytes" <jbytes@h...> > Subject: Re: OT: Tired of Windows - G4 time > > >From: Randy Hammon <randy@t...> > > > >His experience was from PC frying pan to Mac fire. > > The common factor here is your colleague. How knowledgeable is your friend > on either platform. I find that people are too willing to blame > their system woes on the OS or third party software. I think a lot of those > problems result from the user's own ineptitude. > > --JBytes

>From: "Jeehun Hwang" <jeehun@d...> >Unbelievable is right. I just got the G3 450 a few months ago thinking that >I'm getting the top-of-the-line Mac that, despite the fast-paced improvement >on all the platforms, will last me for a few years (at least). I am so >upset that with the same amount of money I spent a couple of months ago, I >can now get the fastest G4 (which, BTW, is so much faster by far). > >Sorry though, I'm not going to be 'throwing' it out any time soon. I'll >think about doing that when Mac announces the G5 in about 2 months! > >JH You said it. When you buy a system with a processor, be it a G something or a P something, it's already absolete. Within a couple of months you'll get something much faster for the same amount of money. But you can't keep waiting for ever. So use what you have now and get another one when it's paid for. From one side it's nice that this technology is becoming accessable to everyone. On the other side, you know the ones who buy first always pay the most, but they will have the most fun first too. It's fair enough, Yoonchi. @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ ¥ð ;ðnÂÂÂ&c opy;hí "Change has always come from small minorities." Robert Fripp, 1980 http://victorian.fortunecity.com/pinter/438/ http://noten.nl.fortunecity.com/jazz/8/ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

>From: zerobeat@g... (f-erenc szabo) >Maybe I still speak so calmly about such things because I'm still >making bags of money with my circa 1994 PowerMac 8100/110. Well then, maybe there's that secret factor called "talent" coming into play here..... :-) Regards - Colin (BAGS of money eh?????)

> From: Colin Shapiro <musos@i...> > >>From: zerobeat@g... (f-erenc szabo) > >>Maybe I still speak so calmly about such things because I'm still >>making bags of money with my circa 1994 PowerMac 8100/110. > > Well then, maybe there's that secret factor called "talent" coming into > play here..... :-) > > Regards - Colin > > (BAGS of money eh?????) Okay. Let's not cloud the issue here... I never claimed to be making any fewer 'bags' of money because of the system. It's just that I, like most men, have a natural propensity towards 'toys' and gadgets and am always excited about anything new that comes out especially if it can do 'anything' more or differently than the previous models. The focus, of course, should be music itself. As some other LUGger put it, when it comes down to it, all I REALLY need is my piano. (and guitar, and...) :) JH

Jeehun Hwang <jeehun@d... > wrote: >From: "Jeehun Hwang" <jeehun@d...> > >> From: Eli Krantzberg <elik@c...> >> >>> The G3 is an obsolete computer. Try the much more powerful G4 This is not true!! Without Altivec support the G4 is not much faster than the G3!!! Read this : http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/G3CARDS/XLR8G4/ Then think. And then reply. Don´t get hysterical about every announcement! Ray ----------------------------------------------------------- Raymund Beyer |_ ray@b... http://www.brainstorm-music.de |_ H1, 1-2 ICQ: 17201606 |_ 68159 Mannheim Fon +49 (0) 621 6858000 |_ Germany -----------------------------------------------------------

Raymund Beyer wrote: > From: Raymund Beyer <ray@b...> > > Jeehun Hwang <jeehun@d... > wrote: > > >From: "Jeehun Hwang" <jeehun@d...> > > > >> From: Eli Krantzberg <elik@c...> > >> > >>> The G3 is an obsolete computer. Try the much more powerful G4 > > This is not true!! Without Altivec support the G4 is not much faster than > the G3!!! Actually, the full G4 benefit will not come until the new logic boards are out (October/November), and the most increase in speed will likely come from the G4s with Shark boards next year (550MHz and up I think). It looks like this test was with the G4 processor in the same logic board/system as a G3, so yes there would be little difference. They are both 400Mhz. I don't think this is a good comparison. The G4 400s that are out now use G3 motherboards, so they won't be much faster (if any) than a G3 400. The G4 400s are probably an attempt to get marketing mileage out of the G4 name. Wait for the 450/500s later this year, or for the next wave of G4s next year. > > > Read this : http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/G3CARDS/XLR8G4/ > > Then think. And then reply. Don´t get hysterical about every announcement! > > Ray > Dedric

>a low-end beige 300 MHz G3 will typically run slightly faster >than a 600 MHZ Pentium Get real

> (ex: a low-end beige 300 MHz G3 will typically run slightly faster > than a 600 MHZ Pentium). in your dreams :) now any tip about logic use?