Hi, folks, I'm new to the list, so I hope I'm not off topic if I ask a general question: has anyone here moved from Cubase VST or VST24 to Logic 4.0? I'm very interested in everyone's opinions on this, as I have to make the same decision. Thanks! -OB1

Hi Obi, I use both Cubase and Logic. Logic is by far the better sequencer in my opinion. I am a beta tester for the Lexicon Studio System, and Logic doesn't yet (will it ever?) support the PC90 Plugin controller for the PC90 daughtercard, so I do use Cbase when I need to. ONLY when I need to. Cubase has a very cumbersome interface which I feel is very cartoon-ish, and although it has added alot of nice features, Logic is still ahead of it. On Mac, I also find Cubase crashes too frequently for me. Logic is for serious MID/Audio users who are willng to learn a great tool, and when you start to learn all that it can really do, it's quite amazing. I think that for power users, it's the hands-down winner. Logic 4.0 also has a great set of built-in plugins which kick serious butt. The Platinum verb and EQs are WAY better than anything Cubase has ever offered. I know Cubase now includes "soft-synth" plugin capability, but the Neon synth that they include is pretty cheesy. All in all, count on spending alot of $$ on plugins for Cubase if you are trying to do finished mixes. I feel that I can do some excellent mixing using just Logic's supplied plugz. That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.....(I'd be happy to say even more in favor of Logic, but I am a little pissed that they are ignoring the PC90 plugin issue....it would make the Lexicon/Logic combo a contender vs. ProTools for most people - WAY less expensive and quite formidable if running on a shiny new Mac :-) ...but that's probably the issue...eMagic is rather, shall we say, intimate with DIGI.... ====== valentin artist, producer, ninja

Thanks dude, I appreciate the feedback. Does everyone else basically agree with him? -OB1 Valentin wrote: > > I use both Cubase and Logic. Logic is by far the better sequencer in my > opinion. -- The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

>From: "Valentin" <valentin@q...> >I use both Cubase and Logic. Logic is by far the better sequencer in my >opinion. I am a beta tester for the Lexicon Studio System, and Logic doesn't >yet (will it ever?) support the PC90 Plugin controller for the PC90 >daughtercard, so I do use Cbase when I need to. ONLY when I need to. I use both of them too, on PC in my case, and I just open VST if I immediately need some of those nice VST Plugins that would crash Logic when running them through Amulets VST->DX adapter. Apart from that I never open it (Oh, and perhaps to give little advice to some folks since I know Cubase pretty well, but even this get's more an more seldom, more often it's just to confirm a bug;-)). >Cubase has a very cumbersome interface which I feel is very cartoon-ish, and >although it has added alot of nice features, Logic is still ahead of it. On >Mac, I also find Cubase crashes too frequently for me. Same for PC, more crashes with VST, way less for Logic (as long as I don't use any external plugins there even are none, can you believe that? NONE!) >Logic is for serious MID/Audio users who are willng to learn a great tool, >and when you start to learn all that it can really do, it's quite amazing. I >think that for power users, it's the hands-down winner. I'd like to add the GREAT interface. Man, I know SO many people telling something like "Uh, Logic looks so ugly and it's interface isn't logical at all", to me this simply isn't true. Once you spend some hours with the manual (and some other hours on this great list!) everything becomes more then clear, plus, you will be able to do 90% of your "daily sequencing" in half the time you'd need in VST just because there are those awsome features such as definable keycommands, savable screensets and an incredibly nice zoom/fade feature for audiotracks directly in your arrangement window (I hardly ever open the audio editor). With 4.0 the interface even looks smarter. >Logic 4.0 also has a great set of built-in plugins which kick serious butt. >The Platinum verb and EQs are WAY better than anything Cubase has ever >offered. I know Cubase now includes "soft-synth" plugin capability, but the >Neon synth that they include is pretty cheesy. All in all, count on spending >alot of $$ on plugins for Cubase if you are trying to do finished mixes. I >feel that I can do some excellent mixing using just Logic's supplied plugz. Agreed again. Most of the Plugins provide excellent soundquality (especially the Phaser, the Fat EQ and the Modulation Delay), others do incredible cool new FX, you even discover a new possibility to use them every day (Spectral Gate, Auto Filter, BitCrusher) others are just cool all the time (Tape and Stereo Delay). For super professional results you might eventually wish another reverb and another compressor, but even those are pretty much good enough to never miss anything in a home/project studio or even in a pro-but-low-price-studio quality range. Obi, after reading this list for some time you will see that most people basically agree with this, on here it's much more about exchanging tips then bitching the product which basically is the case on the Cubase list since ages. Sure, as in ANY software, there are certain bugs and certain annoyances, but in the case of Logic I really have the feeling that those eMagic dudes (which are giving great tips on this list on an almost daily base, btw) really care about. Note: All this was written by a former Cubase addict (and that was just like half a year ago!) Sascha

Obi-wan Kenogle wrote: Subject: Re: Re: Cubase VST > Thanks dude, I appreciate the feedback. > Does everyone else basically agree with him? Yep! Same here. We use Cubase VST 3.7 in our studio, but simply because some of our folks don´t have the time currently to learn Logic. If you are used to Cubase, then you´ll get much quicker results, because the interface has merely changed from old versions. If you know Cubase, then you can have instant access to all areas... However, if you are really looking for a great product and you are willing to learn different handling, then I´d count you in for Logic. My very personal experiences "pro Logic" are: 1.) graphics looks much smarter and therefore handling of FX etc. is easier 2.) Logics FX sound much better than anything else in Cubase 3.) I *love* screensets because they speed up work very much (not avail in VST) 4.) the environment is cool: a bit hard to learn, but very flexible 5.) IMO the whole concept of Logic makes write my stuff much faster :-) But of course there are also some (little) point that are pro Cubase VST: - IMO better Audio routing concept in the mixer windows (if you need it) - better VST/ASIO support - plugin-synth support (new, bigger, better synths are on the way) - ReWire support for Propellerhead ReBirth (should appear somewhen in Logic too) What I disliked most about Logic is the missing VST support under Windows. So if you like to buy LAW, then add some 50$ for the Amulet DirectX to VST adapter... Concerning crashes I really can´t tell which one is better. We have VST crashing very rarely in our studio - but maybe just because we don´t use it that intense. Conclusion: I *love* Logic and won´t trade it in for nothing! Bye Thomas

I've just moved from VST/24 (PC) to LAWP 4.0 and I yes I do agree. Here's a list of strengths and weaknesses that I've encountered on my system in each program. Strengths: Logic 4.0 Stability, Interface, Included Plugins, Stability, Interface, superior midi and scoring functions, intelligent automation handling (compared to cubase), and the audio engine "sounds" better (really), very solid feeling, and this list Cubase VST/24 Audio engine efficiency, Better ASIO implementation, Good SoundFont/APS integration, lots of silly bells and whistles (e.g. Neon and the planned internet based collaborative recording [this is a good idea!?]) Weaknesses: Logic 4.0 So-so ASIO implementation, no 48k recording using MME or ASIO (supposed to be fixed in update), the dreaded "learning curve" (which I'm not finding too bad - except in the environment area) Cubase VST/24 Stability, Interface (but some people like it), A lot of 16bit code (any crash is severe and brings down the entire computer), Scoring/Midi-implementation, Weird bugs that decrease usability (my favorite current bug in 3.7 - using anything except the standard windows mouse driver will cause random severe crashes when clicking on the title bar of a window - there are more), no printed manual Dan ------------------------- Daniel Worley Miscellaneous Records dworley@m... http://miscellaneousrecords.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Obi-wan Kenogle [mailto:kengineering@i...] > Sent: Thursday, September 02, 1999 9:43 AM > To: logic-users@onelist.com > Subject: Re: [LUG] Re: Cubase VST > > > From: Obi-wan Kenogle <kengineering@i...> > > Thanks dude, I appreciate the feedback. > > Does everyone else basically agree with him? > > -OB1 > > Valentin wrote: > > > > I use both Cubase and Logic. Logic is by far the better sequencer in my > > opinion. > > -- > The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ATTN ONELIST USERS: stay current on the latest activities, > programs, & features at ONElist by joining our member newsletter at > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/newsletter4 ">Click Here</a> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >

>[...] there are those awsome features such as definable keycommands, >savable screensets and an incredibly nice zoom/fade feature for audiotracks >directly in your arrangement window Then of course, there's the Environment ;) Len ============================= Logic Users' Group Environment Collection "http://www.swiftkick.com/lugec.html"; =============================

Hi Obi-wan I did the switch from Cubase VST to Logic Gold 3.6 6 month ago (now I have upgraded to Logic 4.0.3 Platinum). I still have Cubase (just in case...), but I have not been using it since my Logic 4.0 arrived. When I used Cubase (which was much easier to use), I had a lot of crashes or out of sync-problems. After I switched to Logic this is nearly history. I had some problems with the CPU Performance, but that was because of CPU overheating which I have solved now. When you get used to Logic, I think you will love it. The most different thing between Logic and Cubase is "the environment" which is a place where you can make a lot of changes and "automizing" of your signals. Here you can define your setup (MIDI-modules, Audio e.t.c.) - put some imaginary cables for your signal-routing - make changes to your signals/music behind the scene. But best of all - you don´t have to understand the environment completely to use it. The arrangement window is very similar to Cubase´s look. The audio factory is much much better than in Cubase. The new plug-ins are great (at least most of them) and very easy to use. In Logic you can define your own shortcut-keys and screensetups - this is GREAT. And most important - the team behind Emagic is much more helpful than the Steinberg-team. In my opnion - the MIDI-part of Logic "sounds/swings" much better in Logic....Yeah, I think I have become a real Logic-fan/user. If you have any specific questions - please feel free to ask me. Sincerely Klaus Poulsen -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: Obi-wan Kenogle <kengineering@i...> Til: logic-users@onelist.com <logic-users@onelist.com> Dato: 2. september 1999 07:41 Emne: Re: [LUG] Cubase VST >From: Obi-wan Kenogle <kengineering@i...> > >Hi, folks, > >I'm new to the list, so I hope I'm not off topic if I ask a general >question: has anyone here moved from Cubase VST or VST24 to Logic 4.0? >I'm very interested in everyone's opinions on this, as I have to make >the same decision. > >Thanks! > >-OB1 > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >ONElist: your connection to online communities. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >

Valentin I made the switch (on MAC) and agree. Better sequencer, more stable, integration is perhaps just a touch weaker, eg Rebirth, REX files and so on but Logic's good plug-ins will save you a lot of money. I thought I'd miss the drum editor on VST more but I guess I tweak existing loops more than write from scratch. The main problem is the learning curve for which Logic is famous. In fact, I tried the switch first about 18 months ago and abandoned it for that very reason. Had a second go at switching about three months ago and got sufficiently up the curve to stay on it. Pravin At 09:43 02/09/1999 -0400, Obi-wan Kenogle wrote: >From: Obi-wan Kenogle <kengineering@i...> > >Thanks dude, I appreciate the feedback. > >Does everyone else basically agree with him? > >-OB1 > >Valentin wrote: >> >> I use both Cubase and Logic. Logic is by far the better sequencer in my >> opinion. > >-- >The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >ATTN ONELIST USERS: stay current on the latest activities, >programs, & features at ONElist by joining our member newsletter at ><a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/newsletter4 ">Click Here</a> > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Pravin G. Mirchandani Director External Relations Nortel Networks - How the world shares ideas 25, allee Pierre Ziller 06560 Valbonne, France Tel: +33 (0)4 92 96 13 49 Fax: +33 (0)4 92 96 69 96 GSM: +33 (0)6 85 74 42 01 (new) ESN: 296 1349

Hi Len >Then of course, there's the Environment ;) Oh well, Len, old chap, that was sort of an understatement, right ? Christian

Klaus Poulsen wrote: > And most important - the team behind Emagic is much more helpful than the > Steinberg-team. Hi Klaus, personally I have never had any bad experience with Steinbergs support neither in the past nor the present ("sorry" to say this on a pro Logic list ;-)) Some time back I´ve had severe trouble because I needed a very flexible routing-opportunity to create a music-monitoring system for a client of mine. I have mailed Emagic and Steinberg about the problem, because I was not sure which software to use. Well, Steinberg had answered within a few hours and have told me exactly what to do when routing with their mixer. So I´ve purchased VST and all works very fine, even later I have received answers to every additional question. Ehm, Emagic tech support has answered my request about 14 days later and no: there was no chance to do this with Logic unfortunately... Thomas

>>Then of course, there's the Environment ;) > >Oh well, Len, old chap, that was sort of an understatement, right ? > >Christian I have this uneasy feeling that not everyone will see it as an advantage...

Many thanks to all for your helpful replies! I have, in fact, noticed that Steinberg salesmen respond quickly and helpfully if you are in the market for software!! Unfortunately, only a select few customers get much support after they have your money. -OB1 -- The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

Yes I have: you get better midi timing, better audio to midi sync worse overall view and control unless you customize logic with the keycommands and an audio hardware bug that emagic is trying to solve right now. In the long run all your songs will be totally intergrated with all aspects of your studio and every thing will be set automatic. Goodluck, Budy -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Obi-wan Kenogle <kengineering@i...> Aan: logic-users@onelist.com <logic-users@onelist.com> Datum: donderdag 2 september 1999 7:37 Onderwerp: Re: [LUG] Cubase VST >From: Obi-wan Kenogle <kengineering@i...> > >Hi, folks, > >I'm new to the list, so I hope I'm not off topic if I ask a general >question: has anyone here moved from Cubase VST or VST24 to Logic 4.0? >I'm very interested in everyone's opinions on this, as I have to make >the same decision. > >Thanks! > >-OB1 > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >ONElist: your connection to online communities. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >

Hi Thommy, > Some time back I´ve had severe trouble because I needed a very flexible > routing-opportunity to create a music-monitoring system for a client of mine. Personally, I still think that monitoring is much more flexible when you set it up with your external mixer... unless you have Protools of course, which is also very flexible... Ciao, Joeri -- Joeri Vankeirsbilck joeri@n... http://www.nbdj.com - Natural Born Deejays http://www.nbdj.com/Logic - Logic Wish List

"(I'd be happy to say even more in favor of Logic, but I am a little pissed that they are ignoring the PC90 plugin issue....it would make the Lexicon/Logic combo a contender vs. ProTools for most people - WAY less expensive and quite formidable i" An even better use of Logic integration would be EMU's/Ensoniq's PARIS..I'm not knocking the Lexicon Studio, but it's just not as Potent as PARIS..But, and a BIG BUT, Just like Digi is tooting their new Pro Tools 5 with upgraded Midi capabilties, Paris too will having integrated midi in the next upgrade ( version3).. Now All LUG(er)s that Logic's sequencer is vastly superior than anything else out their..But,having even a basic seqeuncer to lay parts within the same "domain" as your "Audio" tracks is a very, that 's not ( Host) Processor intensive) is very appealing. But, Like I have posted before, Emagic's alliance with Roland and their Killer Vs Machines, makes for an almost full proof, if not "Crash Proof" killer DAW system. Plus, your studio has now become Mobile. Choices, so many ways choices, LaMont JJD Productions