I purchased Logic 8 today, running on OS 10.4.11 , dual G5 , 4.5 gig ram and the Logic 8 update. What on earth is going on with the CPU ? I've read bits here and there but nobody has offered a reason or cure that I can see. I can run a song in Logic 7 which will reach about 50% on the System performance meter yet if I play it in Logic 8 its in the red and either crashes or is full of audio dropouts. Its just one core doing most of the work too ...and not doing it very well by all accounts. Is there a way to fix this ? I dont want to freeze tracks, use nodes or any other things I bought a G5 not to have to do. What a ridiculous problem to release a major update with ??? Please tell me I haven't just wasted my money because I've had to revert back to Logic 7 to be able to write as normal. thanks Paul

On Jan 31, 2008, at 1:35 PM, paul.lawler wrote: > I purchased Logic 8 today, running on OS 10.4.11 , dual G5 , 4.5 gig > ram and the Logic 8 update. > > What on earth is going on with the CPU ? I've read bits here and there > but nobody has offered a reason or cure that I can see. > > I can run a song in Logic 7 which will reach about 50% on the System > performance meter yet if I play it in Logic 8 its in the red and > either crashes or is full of audio dropouts. Its just one core doing > most of the work too ...and not doing it very well by all accounts. > > Is there a way to fix this ? I dont want to freeze tracks, use nodes > or any other things I bought a G5 not to have to do. > > What a ridiculous problem to release a major update with ??? > > Please tell me I haven't just wasted my money because I've had to > revert back to Logic 7 to be able to write as normal. I find the same thing. Songs that used to play fine are drowning in over cpu usage. What gives? Les

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, "paul.lawler" <lawlermusic@...> wrote: > > I purchased Logic 8 today, running on OS 10.4.11 , dual G5 , 4.5 gig > ram and the Logic 8 update. > > What on earth is going on with the CPU ? I've read bits here and there > but nobody has offered a reason or cure that I can see. > > I can run a song in Logic 7 which will reach about 50% on the System > performance meter yet if I play it in Logic 8 its in the red and > either crashes or is full of audio dropouts. Its just one core doing > most of the work too ...and not doing it very well by all accounts. > Which G5 dual model do you have? I can't say that I experienced anything like this on my 2 x 2.5 PCI-x 2004 model. Graphics response is somewhat slower in L8 than L7 but I didn't experience any substantial CPU differences such as you are describing. kind regards Mark Cahill

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, Les Fradkin <lfradkin@...> wrote: >>On Jan 31, 2008, at 1:35 PM, paul.lawler wrote: >>What a ridiculous problem to release a major update with ??? >>Please tell me I haven't just wasted my money because I've had to >>revert back to Logic 7 to be able to write as normal. > > >I find the same thing. Songs that used to play fine are drowning in >over cpu usage. > >What gives? Well, there's no doubt Logic 8.xx sucks up CPU cycles, from the testing I've done it's usually 25-30% more on PPC machines. Do you feel like you're being nudged (or shoved) towards a MacIntel purchase? :-) The good news is there's so many complaints about "system overloads" going into Apple that (hopefully) they will try and optimize Logic. A lot of folks are also having graphics problems, screens not being updated and very slow response. HW

> "paul.lawler" wrote: >> >> I purchased Logic 8 today, running on OS 10.4.11 , dual G5 , 4.5 gig >> ram and the Logic 8 update. >> >> What on earth is going on with the CPU ? I've read bits here and >> there >> but nobody has offered a reason or cure that I can see. >> >> I can run a song in Logic 7 which will reach about 50% on the System >> performance meter yet if I play it in Logic 8 its in the red and >> either crashes or is full of audio dropouts. Its just one core doing >> most of the work too ...and not doing it very well by all accounts. >> >> > On Jan 31, 2008, at 3:11 PM, markdvc2002 responded: > > Which G5 dual model do you have? I can't say that I experienced > anything like this on my 2 x 2.5 PCI-x 2004 model. Graphics response > is somewhat slower in L8 than L7 but I didn't experience any > substantial CPU differences such as you are describing. What graphic card do you have, Mark? My guts are telling both guys experiencing the problem have older cards. Or they may be using lots of channel EQ, comps and other plugs re-written in L8, which may well be the cause of the problem. What do you think? Best, Andy

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, Andy Hardwake <andyhardwake@...> wrote: > What graphic card do you have, Mark? My guts are telling both guys > experiencing the problem have older cards. Or they may be using lots > of channel EQ, comps and other plugs re-written in L8, which may well > be the cause of the problem. What do you think? I find it's software instruments that tend to use more CPU, Logic 8's cpu meters seem sluggish compared to v7. It's hard to pin down as some projects only use a bit more resources while others peg the meters, however, I'm not getting overload messages or drop outs like one of the other posters. Dual CPU use in L7 seems better implemented. I can usually get 8 to run both CPUs evenly after a few stop/starts. Dual 1.8 G5 w/4GB RAM (ATI Quartz Extreme Graphics card) HW

> > Which G5 dual model do you have? I can't say that I experienced > > anything like this on my 2 x 2.5 PCI-x 2004 model. Graphics response > > is somewhat slower in L8 than L7 but I didn't experience any > > substantial CPU differences such as you are describing. > > What graphic card do you have, Mark? My guts are telling both guys > experiencing the problem have older cards. Or they may be using lots > of channel EQ, comps and other plugs re-written in L8, which may well > be the cause of the problem. What do you think? I have the Dual 2.5 PPC with the Radeon ATY.RV360 graphics card. Could that card be the problem ?? So am I right in thinking it all works well on Intel machines ?

Andy Hardwake <andyhardwake@...> wrote: > What graphic card do you have, Mark? My guts are telling both guys > experiencing the problem have older cards. Or they may be using lots > of channel EQ, comps and other plugs re-written in L8, which may well > be the cause of the problem. What do you think? Hi Andy I have the ATI X800 in the G5. Having switched from a PC with LAWP 5.5.1 to the G5 with L7 end of 2004, I was somewhat taken aback (that's putting it mildly) at how sluggish graphics, screensets etc. were, and in the hope that a faster graphic card might improve things, swapped the stock 9600 for the X 800. kind regards Mark

On Feb 1, 2008, at 1:51 AM, markdvc2002 wrote: > I have the ATI X800 in the G5. Having switched from a PC with LAWP > 5.5.1 to the G5 with L7 end of 2004, I was somewhat taken aback > (that's putting it mildly) at how sluggish graphics, screensets etc. > were, and in the hope that a faster graphic card might improve > things, swapped the stock 9600 for the X 800. So my point is if you still had the stock 9600 you'd probably have the same issues the guys are describing as the card was not up to the job, so CPUs had to kick in to help with the graphics... Just thinking out loud... And to Paul L.: have you (and the other guy reporting the same issue) ever tried Howard's suggestion, I.E. playing the song several times watching the performance meter, does it always act strangely or does it use all cores once in a while? If the latter, then it's definitely a bug... Best, Andy

On Feb 1, 2008, at 1:14 AM, paul.lawler wrote: > > I have the Dual 2.5 PPC with the Radeon ATY.RV360 graphics card. > Could that card be the problem ?? Hmmm... too many variables in this equation :-) ... What plugs are used in the session? EQs, comps, VIs? How many tracks, etc.? > > So am I right in thinking it all works well on Intel machines ? No complaints here on an Intel quad 2.66. I had to retire my dual 867 G4 as just one screen redraw in L8 would hang the system, and in L7 it was still capable of doing some mid sized projects with some EXS, ES2 and other light instruments (no CPU hogs like Sculpture or UltraBeat though). Best, Andy

> Hmmm... too many variables in this equation :-) ... What plugs are > used in the session? EQs, comps, VIs? How many tracks, etc.? Well it varies, the track in question is by no means a huge project and really has a few instances of the East West and vienna strings .....but thats not really important is it if it works fine on L7 ? I think the CPU is pretty consistent at heading up into the red too.

> I find it's software instruments that tend to use more CPU, Logic > 8's cpu meters seem > sluggish compared to v7. It's hard to pin down as some projects > only use a bit more > resources while others peg the meters, however, I'm not getting > overload messages or drop > outs like one of the other posters. Dual CPU use in L7 seems better > implemented. > > I can usually get 8 to run both CPUs evenly after a few stop/starts. > > Dual 1.8 G5 w/4GB RAM (ATI Quartz Extreme Graphics card) > > HW I agree on the software instruments thing. But.... Last night, I was syncing Logic 8 to my Roland VS-2480. All instruments playing were external MIDI thru my Roland mixer. I got an overload indication. Now that is ridiculous. Les

2 questions for the group - Has anyone, who was running Logic 7 on a G4 or G5, upgraded their system to an Intel Mac for the sole purpose of running Logic 8? If yes, what features of Logic 8 made the CPU upgrade worthwhile? Thanks. - PH

On Feb 1, 2008, at 6:11 AM, Paul Heitsch wrote: > > Has anyone, who was running Logic 7 on a G4 or G5, upgraded their > system to > an Intel Mac for the sole purpose of running Logic 8? Me. > > If yes, what features of Logic 8 made the CPU upgrade worthwhile? Better plugs/instruments/channel EQ and more importantly better sound quality. Also my G4 wasn't able to run modern VIs (Sculpture, Ultrabeat, Kontakt2, Massive, etc.), so I had to replace it anyway. Best, Andy

On sexta-feira 01/02/2008, at 12:39, Andy Hardwake wrote: > On Feb 1, 2008, at 6:11 AM, Paul Heitsch wrote: >> >> Has anyone, who was running Logic 7 on a G4 or G5, upgraded their >> system to >> an Intel Mac for the sole purpose of running Logic 8? > > Me. >> >> If yes, what features of Logic 8 made the CPU upgrade worthwhile? Well, in my case, even with Logic 7.2, it was a gigantic improvement, of course, migrating to an Intel Mac. With my single G4 1.25 I was able to run 3 or 4 Sculptures. Now, with my Core 2 Duo 2.0 I can run 23 instances playing a lot of notes at the same time. Of course with the CPU going to 90/95%. I never use more than 6 anyway. :) So, the C2D is 6x faster than my single G4 for playing and recording Logic's instruments. On the other hand, comparing Logic 7 with Logic 8 on the C2D, Logic 8 uses a little bit more CPU. In the G4 as I said, I can run 23/24 sculptures. In Logic 8 it dropped to 22/23. So I lost one instance of Sculpture in Logic 8. Not a big deal, I think. ;) But I hope future Logic 8 updates improves things a little.

Andy - Thanks for the reply. > Better plugs/instruments/channel EQ and more importantly better sound > quality. > Can you elaborate, please? Which plugs/instruments are better? Why is the sound better? Again, I appreciate your taking time for this. - PH

On Feb 1, 2008, at 6:11 AM, Paul Heitsch wrote: > 2 questions for the group - > > Has anyone, who was running Logic 7 on a G4 or G5, upgraded their > system to > an Intel Mac for the sole purpose of running Logic 8? > > If yes, what features of Logic 8 made the CPU upgrade worthwhile? > > Thanks. > > - PH I did to an upgrade from a G5 to an 8 core 3 gig. It wasn't features that attracted me,per se, so much as an overall increase in power, and hopefully stability. In one song there are three tracks of audio, an Altiverb and tape delay. The eighth core is maxing out , causing an audio engine overload, and the others are often registering nothing. Bypassing Altiverb or increasing the buffer reduces the problem. It seems that Logic isn't doing a very good job of spreading out the cpu load, bummer. Anyone know if the is a way to force, or encourage, Logic to assign cpus more usefully? I only have this problem in one song so far. Best Michael Brook Please reply to my new email address, thanks Michael Brook micbrook@earthlink.net

I just started with Logic and I'm running a Mac Pro Dual 2.66GHZ machine. What I've noticed is that effects when adjusting or sampling have no delay. The processing power allows for the effects to be real time. Again, I just started with Logic so I'm not sure if that's a new thing or not. Brian

I dont know if its relevant or if it will continue yet (its only my 2nd day with L8) but I'm not having this CPU trouble so much with a track created in L8 from scratch. The first track was started in L7 so maybe its an import issue too or bug as an odd thing happens when loading the track ....the arrange screen appears before it finished loading the instruments ? Maybe something or nothing ?

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, "paul.lawler" <lawlermusic@...> wrote: > > I dont know if its relevant or if it will continue yet (its only my > 2nd day with L8) but I'm not having this CPU trouble so much with a > track created in L8 from scratch. The first track was started in L7 so > maybe its an import issue too or bug as an odd thing happens when > loading the track ....the arrange screen appears before it finished > loading the instruments ? > > Maybe something or nothing ? There might very well be something to that, Paul ... With just about every new .0 version of logic the recommendation has usually been to start new projects in the new version from scratch. Bearing in mind the fact that L8 projects are not compatible with L7, presumably there are changes to the file structure of logic songs which may mean that it is better to start anew as opposed to bringing old "ballast" into L9 by using older autoloads. At least it is a lot easier to set up arrangements in Logic 8, I have also found it pretty trouble free to then import old environment layers into a new L8 song, so far without detriment to performance. kind regards Mark Cahill

On Feb 1, 2008, at 7:22 AM, Paul Heitsch wrote: > Can you elaborate, please? Which plugs/instruments are better? Pretty much all the dynamics section, especially AdLimiter and MultiPressor (these 2 no longer screw up the sound as they did in v. 7 and earlier), EXS24 and ES2 sound better AFAICT, channel EQ sounds cleaner when importing L7 projects... Did I forget anything :-) ?.. > Why is the > sound better? Dunno Paul, you just have to take a listen and make a judgement for yourself. I like the sound just like most of us here, while a friend, also a composer, hates it and prefers staying with L7, so it's way too subjective to explain... Best, Andy

> > I dont know if its relevant or if it will continue yet (its only my > > 2nd day with L8) but I'm not having this CPU trouble so much with a > > track created in L8 from scratch. The first track was started in L7 so > > maybe its an import issue too or bug as an odd thing happens when > > loading the track ....the arrange screen appears before it finished > > loading the instruments ? > > > > Maybe something or nothing ? > There might very well be something to that, Paul ... > With just about every new .0 version of logic the recommendation has > usually been to start new projects in the new version from scratch. > Bearing in mind the fact that L8 projects are not compatible with L7, > presumably there are changes to the file structure of logic songs which > may mean that it is better to start anew as opposed to bringing > old "ballast" into L9 by using older autoloads. At least it is a lot > easier to set up arrangements in Logic 8, I have also found it pretty > trouble free to then import old environment layers into a new L8 song, > so far without detriment to performance. That's reassuring news. I'm a new Logic user, finally won over by the interface improvements in L8, and reading news about some older machines having issues has certainly piqued my interest, as I have a dual 1.8 G5, the 8gb version from 2004 (I've got 2.5gb in mine). The sad thing is that reading these posts made me realize just how old my computer is (4 years!). All of my projects will be created from scratch so I'd be keeping an eye out for any oddities, but if it appears to be an importing issue, that's at least good news for new projects! derek

Sorry - found the cpu meter - I'd unchecked it by mistake.

On 1 Feb 2008, at 13:57, Les Fradkin wrote: > > Logic > > 8's cpu meters > Sorry for the daft question but where do I find these?

On 02/02/2008, at 4:43 AM, Andy Hardwake wrote: > Pretty much all the dynamics section, especially AdLimiter and > MultiPressor (these 2 no longer screw up the sound as they did in v. 7 > and earlier), EXS24 and ES2 sound better AFAICT, channel EQ sounds > cleaner when importing L7 projects... Did I forget anything :-) ?.. Special mention of the compressor. Sounds better, more circuit choices and a truly useful side chain that makes it an awesome de- esser, something Logic never had a good one of. Agree it's overall better sounding as well. Kind regards ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Paul Najar Jaminajar Music Production www.jaminajar.com

On Feb 1, 2008, at 1:14 PM, Robert Wilson wrote: > Sorry - found the cpu meter - I'd unchecked it by mistake. > > Hey Robert.... Double click on the small CPU / HD load meters to get a big floating version... Bast Regards.... Steven

On Feb 1, 2008, at 4:14 AM, paul.lawler wrote: > I have the Dual 2.5 PPC with the Radeon ATY.RV360 graphics card. > Could that card be the problem ?? > > So am I right in thinking it all works well on Intel machines ? I am using 2X2 G5 PPC with 6GB Ram and 2 20" monitors being driven by a ATI Radeon 9800 Pro. Logic 8 Pro runs just fine. Dave Shirk Pamlico Sounds

--- Paul Heitsch <Paul@pushplayaudio.com> wrote: > Has anyone, who was running Logic 7 on a G4 or G5, > upgraded their system to > an Intel Mac for the sole purpose of running Logic > 8? > I still run Logic 7 on my G5 and, as much as I'd like to upgrade to L8, I've decided that I won't do it till I get a new Mac. JP

<quotes fixed by admin - please reply UNDERNEATH quoted text> ___________________________________________ > > On 02/02/2008, at 4:43 AM, Andy Hardwake wrote: > >> > Pretty much all the dynamics section, especially AdLimiter and >> > MultiPressor (these 2 no longer screw up the sound as they did in v. 7 >> > and earlier), EXS24 and ES2 sound better AFAICT, channel EQ sounds >> > cleaner when importing L7 projects... Did I forget anything :-) ?.. > > Special mention of the compressor. Sounds better, more circuit > choices and a truly useful side chain that makes it an awesome de- > esser, something Logic never had a good one of. > > Agree it's overall better sounding as well. > > Kind regards Paul - Are you familiar with the WAVES L1 or Renaissance comps? If yes, how do you think the Logic 8 plugins compare? TIA. - PH

--- Steven Smith <saxsmith7@mac.com> wrote: > > > On Feb 1, 2008, at 1:14 PM, Robert Wilson wrote: > > > Sorry - found the cpu meter - I'd unchecked it by > mistake. > > > > > > Hey Robert.... > > Double click on the small CPU / HD load meters to > get a big floating > version... Yeah, noticed that. Can't believe I never spotted it before. Thanks again.

On 03/02/2008, at 12:28 AM, Paul Heitsch wrote: > Paul - > > Are you familiar with the WAVES L1 or Renaissance comps? > > If yes, how do you think the Logic 8 plugins compare? I did own both those plugins some years back but made a decision to dump Waves and go with UAD-1. The ren comp is a fine compressor that's more coloured than Logicomp I feel. Now with Logic's version 8 improvements the LC has a broader range of tones via the new circuit choices, auto release and limiter section and new side chain features. I have no desire to own the ren comp these days. As for L1, it's closest to Logic's Limiter. I class them both as trying to be transperant limiting. L1 is maybe a tad better at it than Limiter in that you can get slightly higher levels of limiting before hideous distortion kicks in too bad. I like L2 better than L1 and like UAD Precision Limiter most for this type of plug. Regards ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Paul Najar Jaminajar Music Production www.jaminajar.com

The more i use L8 the more I'm convinced my CPU problem was down to importing L7 songs. So far things have been ok using the template I created from scratch in L8, more of an equal core distribution in the CPU meter, and yesterday I loaded a very ambient L7 track and the CPU went through the roof again ...mainly on one core too. I hope it proves to be the case with bigger projects because I dont think I could live with the new L8 one page design now !

___________________________________________ > On 03/02/2008, at 12:28 AM, Paul Heitsch wrote: > >> > Paul - >> > >> > Are you familiar with the WAVES L1 or Renaissance comps? >> > >> > If yes, how do you think the Logic 8 plugins compare? > > I did own both those plugins some years back but made a decision to > dump Waves and go with UAD-1. The ren comp is a fine compressor > that's more coloured than Logicomp I feel. Now with Logic's version 8 > improvements the LC has a broader range of tones via the new circuit > choices, auto release and limiter section and new side chain > features. I have no desire to own the ren comp these days. > > As for L1, it's closest to Logic's Limiter. I class them both as > trying to be transperant limiting. L1 is maybe a tad better at it > than Limiter in that you can get slightly higher levels of limiting > before hideous distortion kicks in too bad. I like L2 better than L1 > and like UAD Precision Limiter most for this type of plug. > > Regards > > ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > Paul Najar > Jaminajar Music Production > www.jaminajar.com Paul - Thank you for your very cogent reply! - PH

Andy Hardwake <andyhardwake@mac.com> wrote: > On Feb 1, 2008, at 7:22 AM, Paul Heitsch wrote: > Can you elaborate, please? Which plugs/instruments are better? Pretty much all the dynamics section, especially AdLimiter and MultiPressor (these 2 no longer screw up the sound as they did in v. 7 and earlier), EXS24 and ES2 sound better AFAICT, channel EQ sounds cleaner when importing L7 projects... Did I forget anything :-) ?.. > Why is the > sound better? Dunno Paul, you just have to take a listen and make a judgement for yourself. I like the sound just like most of us here, while a friend, also a composer, hates it and prefers staying with L7, so it's way too subjective to explain... Best, Andy well.. unless they have changed something in the plug-ins i don't think they sound different than before.. wuold be also a problem, also we're working on a digital enviroinment, if you read logic 8 what's new they have revised some plug-in but they talk only about surround implementation.. anything else.. Logic 8 plays exactly the same as logic 7 here, only compressor is better, and delay designer as a nice new entry. also the cpu usage is a bit heavier than 7 but not like someone has mentioned, 30%, it's a bit more heavy, let's say 5%? maybe less the GUI is slower than 7. i'm on a dual g5 2.5 agp/pcix version

> well.. unless they have changed something in the plug-ins i don't think they > sound different than before.. wuold be also a problem, also we're working on a > digital enviroinment, if you read logic 8 what's new they have revised some > plug-in but they talk only about surround implementation.. anything else.. > Logic 8 plays exactly the same as logic 7 here, only compressor is better, and > delay designer as a nice new entry. > > also the cpu usage is a bit heavier than 7 but not like someone has mentioned, > 30%, it's a bit more heavy, let's say 5%? maybe less > > the GUI is slower than 7. > > i'm on a dual g5 2.5 agp/pcix version > Thank you, Ricky. - PH

<quotes fixed by admin> On Feb 3, 2008, at 9:32 AM, paul.lawler wrote: > > > I hope it proves to be the case with bigger projects because I dont > think I could live with the new L8 one page design now ! Did you mean live -without- by any chance? Dan Carter www.dacartmusic.com 917-355-1786 Member of Manhattan Producers Alliance www.manhatpro.com/

I just got Logic 8 also monday and have found hi CPU even with just 1 audio track and 1 plugin , The cpu meter seems to go from 1/4 to 1/2 right side meter scale and the left does nothing , the meter also huvers at 1/4 when Logic is just idleing . Logic 8.01 G5 Dual 2.0gHZ,7gig ram,latest OS,firestudio . Thanks Mike...

michaelpost <lincoln85@yahoo.com> wrote: > I just got Logic 8 also monday and have found hi CPU even with just 1 audio track and 1 plugin , The cpu meter seems to go from 1/4 to 1/2 right side meter scale and the left does nothing , the meter also huvers at 1/4 when Logic is just idleing . > Logic 8.01 G5 Dual 2.0gHZ,7gig ram,latest OS,firestudio . I've been playing around with Logic 8 on my dual 1.25 G4 w/2 gigs RAM and finding it essentially useless. The same machine would run Logic 6 in OS 9 no problem with 40-50 audio tracks, tons of plugins and a few virtual instruments; I didn't spend a lot of time in Logic 7 in OSX with it but it seemed usable enough... On the other hand, Logic 8 hangs up with ONE stereo audio track, one loop, one EXS string pad, and NO plugins! Overload messages, spinning color wheel for 30 or 40 seconds after moving one fader during playback (for instance), etc., etc. Before anyone jumps down my throat, let me just say that I fully understand that I'm trying to run this on what is hardly a cutting-edge computer. However, it well exceeds the system requirements specified by Apple, and the results are not even worthy of consideration, which is really a travesty. Shame on them...

On 3/1/08 6:57 PM, "John Bertsche" <forums@logic-users.org> wrote: > Message posted by John Bertsche <jnyb@optonline.net > <mailto:jnyb%40optonline.net> >: > > michaelpost <lincoln85@yahoo.com <mailto:lincoln85%40yahoo.com> > wrote: >> > I just got Logic 8 also monday and have found hi CPU even with just 1 audio >> track and 1 plugin , The cpu meter seems to go from 1/4 to 1/2 right side >> meter scale and the left does nothing , the meter also huvers at 1/4 when >> Logic is just idleing . >> > Logic 8.01 G5 Dual 2.0gHZ,7gig ram,latest OS,firestudio . > > I've been playing around with Logic 8 on my dual 1.25 G4 w/2 gigs RAM and > finding it essentially useless. The same machine would run Logic 6 in OS 9 no > problem with 40-50 audio tracks, tons of plugins and a few virtual > instruments; I didn't spend a lot of time in Logic 7 in OSX with it but it > seemed usable enough... > > On the other hand, Logic 8 hangs up with ONE stereo audio track, one loop, one > EXS string pad, and NO plugins! Overload messages, spinning color wheel for > 30 or 40 seconds after moving one fader during playback (for instance), etc., > etc. > > Before anyone jumps down my throat, let me just say that I fully understand > that I'm trying to run this on what is hardly a cutting-edge computer. > However, it well exceeds the system requirements specified by Apple, and the > results are not even worthy of consideration, which is really a travesty. > Shame on them... > > Well, I can just say that we have a 1.4 Dual G4 that seems to be working a lot better than that with L8. In fact, it was actually working with L8 when we only had 512MB of RAM, which is below Apple¹s spec. We now have 1GB and all works as advertised. I know this machine is slightly faster than yours, but there have also been a few others who have recently reported success on G4 machines. So, I am not sure your results are typical. Perhaps there is something else going on with your system that can account for this. You don¹t say what kind of interface you are using, for example. Another issue could be a too-full hard drive, which tends to slow everything down the way you describe. Blair -- blairfisher@shaw.ca

Blair Fisher <blairfisher@shaw.ca> wrote: > Perhaps there is something else going on with > your system that can account for this. You don¹t say what kind of interface > you are using, for example. Another issue could be a too-full hard drive, > which tends to slow everything down the way you describe. interface is a MOTU 2408 (first generation). If anything I would suspect that as the main culprit, although Logic 7 seemed to work acceptably at least for the simpler projects that I tried on it. As far as the hard drive is concerned, are you referring to the startup drive on which Logic resides, or the separate audio drive (internal ATA)? The startup drive is pretty full (a bit over 90%). It's good to hear that you got it to work. Did you make changes in Audio Preferences on your G4? What interface were you using? What kind of track count/plugins were you able to use? thanks!

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, Blair Fisher <blairfisher@...> wrote: > > Well, I can just say that we have a 1.4 Dual G4 that seems to be working a > lot better than that with L8. In fact, it was actually working with L8 when > we only had 512MB of RAM, which is below Apple¹s spec. We now have 1GB and > all works as advertised. > > I know this machine is slightly faster than yours, but there have also been > a few others who have recently reported success on G4 machines. So, I am not > sure your results are typical. Perhaps there is something else going on with > your system that can account for this. You don¹t say what kind of interface > you are using, for example. Another issue could be a too-full hard drive, > which tends to slow everything down the way you describe. > > Blair I have to add that I use L8 on a 12in G4 Powerbook, 1.5Ghz single CPU, and 1.25GB of RAM, and everything works smoothly. I'm able to run a good dozen audio tracks, 7, 8 virtual instruments, plug-ins AND loop-record vocals live during band rehearsals. In fact, initial problems went away once I make room on the internal hard drive and I now never let the dive drop below 20% available space. Also, when you're using CPU-intense plug-ins like Space Designer and Sculpture the freeze function is your friend. This goes especially for a lot of current versions of third-party virtual instruments and effects.

On 3/2/08 6:02 AM, "John Bertsche" <forums@logic-users.org> wrote: > Message posted by John Bertsche <jnyb@optonline.net>: > > Blair Fisher <blairfisher@shaw.ca> wrote: >> Perhaps there is something else going on with >> your system that can account for this. You don¹t say what kind of interface >> you are using, for example. Another issue could be a too-full hard drive, >> which tends to slow everything down the way you describe. > > interface is a MOTU 2408 (first generation). If anything I would suspect that > as the main culprit, although Logic 7 seemed to work acceptably at least for > the simpler projects that I tried on it. As far as the hard drive is > concerned, are you referring to the startup drive on which Logic resides, or > the separate audio drive (internal ATA)? The startup drive is pretty full (a > bit over 90%). Bingo! You really can't let your start-up drive get that full in OSX. It will create exactly the same behaviour you describe. The system slows down when doing the simplest tasks - opening windows, moving a fader, etc. If you can find a way to get some things off your start-up drive I suspect you will see an immediate improvement. When you installed L8 it probably pushed your hard drive over the limit - I bet this is the main reason it is performing so much worse now. > > It's good to hear that you got it to work. Did you make changes in Audio > Preferences on your G4? What interface were you using? What kind of track > count/plugins were you able to use? > > thanks! I have students who are doing projects on this machine, so I don't actually use it much myself. I can't say exactly what track counts you could expect, but your report of only getting one audio track and one EXS instrument to work is WAY under what I would expect. We are using a Tascam FW-1082, but I don't think the interface is your issue here... Blair -- blairfisher@shaw.ca

Blair Fisher <blairfisher@shaw.ca> wrote: > Bingo! > You really can't let your start-up drive get that full in OSX. It will > create exactly the same behaviour you describe. The system slows down when > doing the simplest tasks - opening windows, moving a fader, etc. > If you can find a way to get some things off your start-up drive I suspect > you will see an immediate improvement. When you installed L8 it probably > pushed your hard drive over the limit - I bet this is the main reason it is > performing so much worse now. I'm gonna try removing iTunes (about 36 gigs) off the drive for a minute. That alone is around 30% of the total drive capacity. I'll post the results. Thanks to all who replied!

> I purchased Logic 8 today, running on OS 10.4.11 , dual G5 , 4.5 gig > ram and the Logic 8 update. > What on earth is going on with the CPU ? I've read bits here and there > but nobody has offered a reason or cure that I can see. > I can run a song in Logic 7 which will reach about 50% on the System > performance meter yet if I play it in Logic 8 its in the red and > either crashes or is full of audio dropouts. Its just one core doing > most of the work too ...and not doing it very well by all accounts. "paul.lawler" <lawlermusic@btinternet.com> wrote: that's really strange. my experience is the opposite. song's i couldn't play without freezing tracks in 7 will play smoothly in 8. i presume you are playing back LP7 created songs? well actually so am i so i don't know what your problem could be. graphic display isn't quite as snappy in 8, but i understand that is because of the new GUI framework. i think it means that it could potentially be faster leopard, but since leopard seems to demand more cpu resources than tiger i am holding off there for the moment. my set up is very similar to yours - i am using G5 2.7 DP 4.5 Gb RAM.

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, "Rohan Stevenson" wrote: > > >>I can run a song in Logic 7 which will reach about 50% on the System >>performance meter yet if I play it in Logic 8 its in the red and >>either crashes or is full of audio dropouts. Its just one core doing >>most of the work too ...and not doing it very well by all accounts. >>"paul.lawler" <lawlermusic@...> wrote: > > >that's really strange. my experience is the opposite. song's i >couldn't play without freezing tracks in 7 will play smoothly in 8. Well, looking around at all of the Mac boards.. most users have a similar experience as Paul. I notice anywhere betwen 15-25% CPU overhead in Logic 8 (over L7) depending on the plugins used. Also, one of the processors is usually hit considerably harder than the others. Leopard only makes the situation worse. Maybe your installation of version-7 is hosed! :-) HW

"pancenter" <hwooten@dakotacom.net> wrote: > Well, looking around at all of the Mac boards.. most users have > a similar experience as Paul. I notice anywhere betwen 15-25% CPU > overhead in Logic 8 (over L7) depending on the plugins used. Also, > one of the processors is usually hit considerably harder than the > others. > Leopard only makes the situation worse. > Maybe your installation of version-7 is hosed! :-) hehe. i don't think so. my performance improvement in LP8 is marginal. maybe around 5%. not more than 10, but it is a definite improvement right across the board. for the most part, my computer runs with reasonable headroom even on really big arrangements - i am usually just freezing ivory (which is a audio streaming problem - not cpu). but i know a lot of people have been complaining about it and its got me perplexed, as those specific arrangements which do push the cpu right to the limit and with occasional overloads are playing very smoothly (better). but i am not the only one. sometime ago, someone i knew ran a bench mark test which confirmed what we both thought - that LP8 was marginally more cpu efficient. but there is a theory going around that that cpu efficiency is possibly translating into problems with multi-threading distribution over multi-cores. i think people who have more than 2 cpus have been having more hiccups than thoe of us with those tiny little puffing-billy ppc G5s... :-)

i've done a few things. First of all all of my itunes music is stored to an external hardrive along with all of my photos and movies etc. etc. I don't use sountrack2 at all atleast not right now so i did not install that part of logic studio. gantt

well, I removed iTunes from the startup drive, and nothing changed. It then occurred to me that the stereo audio track that I was playing around with was dragged in as an mp3. It had, however, apparently been converted to an 16 bit/44.1 sd2 according to the Audio list, but just for laughs I made a copy of it at 24 bit, swapped them out, and trashed the first file. Things got noticeably better, with fewer hangs etc., but still only running the one stereo track w/two or three repeating loops and the virtual string pad, and still not really usable. I then realized that the problem with hanging/freezing, spinning color wheel, etc. was only happening when I was in the "main" window ( what Apple calls the "consolidated Arrange window"). If I switched to another, dedicated window-like the old style Arrange window, I couldn't make it hang or freeze, even with a rapid series of stop/start commands, switching tracks, moving faders, etc. So, it definitely seemed to have something to do with that new Arrange window. My question is, what does that mean? Is that a video card issue? I'm gonna run some more experiments tonight...I'm somewhat reassured to know that people are getting acceptable performance out of these older machines with Logic 8, but I'm still a bit peeved about having to jump through all these hoops; I've been using Logic since version 3.5, and every upgrade was pretty smooth until now.

> Message posted by John Bertsche <jnyb@optonline.net>: > > > I'm gonna run some more experiments tonight...I'm somewhat > reassured to know that people are getting acceptable performance > out of these older machines with Logic 8, but I'm still a bit > peeved about having to jump through all these hoops; I've been > using Logic since version 3.5, and every upgrade was pretty > smooth until now. > John - I guess the main thing here is that your really awful performance on your G4 is not typical, and somehow seems to be connected to your particular setup. I would definitely keep my boot disk usage below 80% or so, and then experiment to see what else might be causing the problems you are having. Just for fun, I just ran down the hall and started up the G4 - played a 16 audio track song and added an EXS string pad. No problems at all. Once again, this G4 is a bit faster than yours, but I think you can probably still get better performance than you are right now. Blair

Hi Guys, Interesting thread. I am making the switch from PC to Mac and am looking at the new MacBook Pro. I want to run Logic 8, Kontakt 3 for East/West Platinum Symphony and MachFive 2 for Vienna Symphony Special Edition. Using a MBP 2.6 with 4GB and the 250GB 5400 RPM internal drive, how many tracks of sample playback do you estimate that I will be able to achieve from the internal hard drive? I don't want to give up 50GB to go to the 7200 RPM drive and an external drive won't be practical for all situations. Eventually, I'll switch to an internal SSD when they get their capacity up. Also, how many audio tracks playback at 48KHz do you think I'll be able to achieve? Are the sample players more or less disk intensive from a single drive than the audio playback? Thanks for your help, Michael