I have a film that is 24 drop frame. Logic only has 24. Is there any way to compensate for this??

On 24-Aug-07, at 9:59 AM, desha dunnahoe wrote: > Message posted by desha dunnahoe <desha@deshadunnahoe.com>: > > I have a film that is 24 drop frame. Logic only has 24. > > Is there any way to compensate for this?? > Never heard of 24 drop frame. Is it because the movie is in HD? I would ask for a dub in one of the more standard rates. If there is visual TC then I would ask them to make sure it's the same rate. Any work-arounds could end up causing more trouble at the final mix with cues not ending up in the correct place etc. e

On Aug 24, 2007, at 9:59 AM, desha dunnahoe wrote: > Message posted by desha dunnahoe <desha@deshadunnahoe.com>: > > I have a film that is 24 drop frame. Logic only has 24. > > Is there any way to compensate for this?? Try 25. SL

> On 24-Aug-07, at 9:59 AM, desha dunnahoe wrote: > > > Message posted by desha dunnahoe <desha@...>: > > > > I have a film that is 24 drop frame. Logic only has 24. > > > > Is there any way to compensate for this?? > > You've got a couple choices here--- the best one, I've found, is as follows: Have someone bring the program into Final Cut (or, more accurately, Final Cut's companion program Cinema Tools). Conform the video from 23.956 to 24 frames. Score to the video in Logic in 24fps. When you're done writing the cue, print a mix. Use time & pitch machine to slow down the mix 0.1% and reexport. This should then match up with the original 23.956 video file. Your REAL best bet is to ask the cutting room to just work in 24fps. 24drop is a pain for everyone. Good luck!

> > I have a film that is 24 drop frame. Logic only has 24. > > > > Is there any way to compensate for this?? > > > >Never heard of 24 drop frame. >Is it because the movie is in HD? > >I would ask for a dub in one of the more standard rates. >If there is visual TC then I would ask them to make sure it's the >same rate. >Any work-arounds could end up causing more trouble at the final mix >with cues not ending up in the correct place etc. I don't believe 24 drop frame exists. This video must be 23.976 from an HD transfer. I was actually surprised recently to see that Logic doesn't yet have this frame rate listed as an option even though it has become a standard. Are folks using Logic's 24 with HD projects without problems? Seems risky.

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, "desha dunnahoe" <forums@...> wrote: > I have a film that is 24 drop frame. Logic only has 24. > > Is there any way to compensate for this?? Yes. Ignore the timecode display in Logic. Best way to handle this is to have the video editor cut you a reference DV that has a 2-pop at the head and tail and with a screenburn of timecode at their session rate. Import the DV into Logic and it will play at its native rate. This has nothing to do with Logics timecode settings as they are purely for display convenience in this situation. If you need to spot to timecode, use the screens timecode, not Logics.

For all the HD projects we work on we got our dubs in 29.97. The mix house deals with the proper conversions. Seems the old saying applies to HD as well - "The good thing about standards is that we have so many of them" This is why it was safer that the people who, hopefully, have a good understanding of all the numbers actually do all the conversions. e

<desha@deshadunnahoe.com> wrote: >I have a film that is 24 drop frame. Logic only has 24. > >Is there any way to compensate for this?? Maybe 23.976? Anyway, it's best to convert to a standard frame rate. This is usually required for distributing work "prints" because not a lot of folks can view this on their viewing medium (typically a standard TV). If you have a file, use QuickTime Pro (available from Apple direct for about US$40) to convert this file to a rate you can use (say, 29.97 drop). if it's got timecode burn-in, then I don't know how that'll look. I'm guessing it'll correct itself every second, with a few repeated frames. f-erenc szabo, smarty pants Z+E+R+O+B+E+A+T "NOW POWERED BY THE MIRACLE OF THE TRANSISTOR!" <http://home.goodmedia.com/~zerobeat>

> > I have a film that is 24 drop frame. Logic only has 24. > > > > Is there any way to compensate for this?? > > Yes. Ignore the timecode display in Logic. > > Best way to handle this is to have the video editor cut you a > reference DV that has a 2-pop at > the head and tail and with a screenburn of timecode at their > session rate. Import the DV into > Logic and it will play at its native rate. This has nothing to do > with Logics timecode settings > as they are purely for display convenience in this situation. If > you need to spot to timecode, > use the screens timecode, not Logics. There is no such thing as 24 drop frame. What you're seeing is 23.976, which is not the same thing. Drop frame refers to actually dropping tc numbers in a 29.97 sequence, and is used for TV only. The important thing to remember is that time code refers only to position, and not speed. Speed is determined by sample rate. So if you go ahead and ignore Logic and just use the tc number on the display, and work at the sample rate of the rest of the project (probably 48K) you'll be fine. You'll probably be delivering this music to a music editor, in which case you would print a mix, note the tc start on the picture reference, and give the editor that info. It is a drag that Logic doesn't operate at that rate. Its goign to be more and more important. Final Cut HD operates only at that rate, even if it says 24 frame. And they're made by the same company..... -Evan

On Aug 24, 2007, at 7:02 PM, f-erenc szabo wrote: > Maybe 23.976? > > Anyway, it's best to convert to a standard frame rate. > This is usually required for distributing work "prints" > because not a lot of folks can view this on their viewing > medium (typically a standard TV). > > If you have a file, use QuickTime Pro (available from > Apple direct for about US$40) to convert this file to > a rate you can use (say, 29.97 drop). if it's got timecode > burn-in, then I don't know how that'll look. I'm guessing > it'll correct itself every second, with a few repeated frames. > > f-erenc szabo, smarty pants > Z+E+R+O+B+E+A+T > "NOW POWERED BY THE MIRACLE OF THE TRANSISTOR!" > <http://home.goodmedia.com/~zerobeat> I would say 23.976 is now a standard frame rate. All HD projects (and most indie films are nowadays) are 23.976 projects. Converting to 29.97 in Quicktime would be meaningless because the length of the film is the same, regardless of frame rate. You would simply get a file that had the wrong burn in on it. Very confusing, I would think. But it would correct itself every second. And a QT file is a QT file. Viewable on any TV set I know of, even at 23.976. Because 23.976 is kinda the NTSC equivalent of true 24 frame. -Evan Benjamin

Hey everyone - thanks for all the replies. (sorry I didn't respond earlier - I thought I had it set to receive email notifications of replies, and since I didn't receive any, I didn't think anyone had answered!!! D'oh!) Lots of good info there. I've just been using the burn-in numbers for communication with the director and left Logic set at 24. I'll take a look at all your input again and decide if I should do it different for the next work print. (I just hate looking at two sets of numbers) Seems like Logic should come to the party and have a 23.976 rate, eh? Thanks, again, everyone!!! Desha