Hello, Can anyone help me compare two-channel audio interfaces? (Or recommend an Internet resource on audio peripherals in general?) I just bought Logic Pro 7 (and upgraded to 7.2.3). I'm soon to be using a new MacPro. I have been using ProTools in various environments, and I own ProTools LE with an MBOX2. I usually just run a stereo pair to record a live acoustic environment...when I need to mic instruments or voices, I run them into an 4-channel or 8-channel portable mixer...Mackie or the like. My basic question is this: will I be ok using Mbox2 as my audio interface? If not, what are the other options? Related questions (naive): Is RME ADI-2 an equivalent device? Or do I need to splurge on the RME Fireface 400? Is there any other equivalent to the Mbox2, from Apogee or another manufacturer? Btw: I hate the Logic manual. I'm a beginner with Logic, but I am an experienced musician who has used PT and MIDI and done a little sound synthesis work as a programmer. I am not a gearhead, so I'm sometimes unclear about what component goes with what. So I read Appendix A and B, and look through the glossary to brush up on my terms. No good. Every word in this book fits into one of two categories: (1) stuff I already know, and (2) stuff I don't know but have absolutely no hope of understanding, because the authors offer no context or explanation. There is no middle ground -- nothing that explains to an educated beginner what to do first, and what to do next.

On Jul 7, 2007, at 4:17 PM, Ben Carson wrote: > Hello, > > Can anyone help me compare two-channel audio interfaces? (Or > recommend an > Internet resource on audio peripherals in general?) > > I just bought Logic Pro 7 (and upgraded to 7.2.3). I'm soon to be > using a > new MacPro. I have been using ProTools in various environments, and > I own > ProTools LE with an MBOX2. I usually just run a stereo pair to > record a live > acoustic environment...when I need to mic instruments or voices, I > run them > into an 4-channel or 8-channel portable mixer...Mackie or the like. > > My basic question is this: will I be ok using Mbox2 as my audio > interface? Sure if you want.. it will work with the Mac Pro.. George Leger III ________________________________________________________ http://www.myspace.com/georgelegeriii http://www.utopiaparkwaymusic.com Mac AND PC: The only way to fly 8-}

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, "Ben Carson" <forums@...> wrote: > > Message posted by Ben Carson <Benja.Carson@...>: > > Hello, > > Can anyone help me compare two-channel audio interfaces? (Or recommend an > Internet resource on audio peripherals in general?) http://www.mhlabs.com/metric_halo/products/mio/uln2/ > Btw: I hate the Logic manual. I'm a beginner with Logic, but I am an Google for Logic pro tutorial Best Ab

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, "Ben Carson" <forums@...> wrote: > > Message posted by Ben Carson <Benja.Carson@...>: > > Hello, > > Can anyone help me compare two-channel audio interfaces? (Or recommend an > Internet resource on audio peripherals in general?) > > I just bought Logic Pro 7 (and upgraded to 7.2.3). I'm soon to be using a > new MacPro. I have been using ProTools in various environments, and I own > ProTools LE with an MBOX2. I usually just run a stereo pair to record a live > acoustic environment...when I need to mic instruments or voices, I run them > into an 4-channel or 8-channel portable mixer...Mackie or the like. > > My basic question is this: will I be ok using Mbox2 as my audio interface? > If not, what are the other options? Yes, you can use the MBox2 as your audio interface. However, the Mbox2 uses USB 1.0, which has a much slower data stream. This will often lead to poor performance and high latency. Not to mention the Preamps in the Mbox2 are noisy. > > Related questions (naive): Is RME ADI-2 an equivalent device? Or do I need > to splurge on the RME Fireface 400? Is there any other equivalent to the > Mbox2, from Apogee or another manufacturer? There are much better options than in MBox (IMHO). The RME ADI-2 is just an AD/DA converter. It has not direct connection to your computer. You would still need an audio interface with Digital I/O (your MBox2 has SPDIF) in order to use the RME. But keeping with the Mbox, you are still subject to poor performance. My advice is to look at other interfaces if you are in the market for a high quality interface. Appogee makes the MINI ME, a high quality AD converter with direct USB and Firewire connections. But it doesn't have a DA converter. For DA converters, I'd look into the Benchmark DAC-1. I'd seriously take a look at the Apogee Ensemble, it's a bit more $$ than the Fireface, but you get some nice preamps and great converters with the added benefit of Logic integration. Someone else recommended the Metric Halo, which I can also recommend. It all comes down to how much money you can spend and what your needs are. > > Btw: I hate the Logic manual. I'm a beginner with Logic, but I am an > experienced musician who has used PT and MIDI and done a little sound > synthesis work as a programmer. I am not a gearhead, so I'm sometimes > unclear about what component goes with what. So I read Appendix A and B, and > look through the glossary to brush up on my terms. No good. Every word in > this book fits into one of two categories: (1) stuff I already know, and (2) > stuff I don't know but have absolutely no hope of understanding, because the > authors offer no context or explanation. There is no middle ground -- > nothing that explains to an educated beginner what to do first, and what to > do next. As far as wading through the manual, I know your pain. I can recommend some DVD's. http://www.halleonard.com/item_detail.jsp? itemid20628&order=2&catcode&refer=search&type=product&k eywords=logic+dvd +<p> http://www.halleonard.com/item_detail.jsp? itemid20629&order=3&catcode&refer=search&type=product&k eywords=logic+dvd +<p> http://www.halleonard.com/item_detail.jsp? itemid20630&order=4&catcode&refer=search&type=product&k eywords=logic+dvd +<p> These are available at Guitar Center and Amazon.com You could also seek out private instruction. A few hours with someone might help clarify a lot of your questions. Best Wishes, Andrew >

Thanks to everyone for the time and effort in helping me out. Now a few more questions: > There are much better options than in MBox (IMHO). The RME ADI-2 is just > an AD/DA converter. It has not direct connection to your computer. You > would still need an audio interface with Digital I/O So, like what, for example? Does this mean I should buy an AD/DA conv, a DA/AD conv, and an "audio interface with Digital I/O", all separately? OR if there's something that handles all three (like Mbox 2), then where do I learn about it? I'm willing to do research, but I just don't know how to start. Apple never says, anywhere, "here's what a mobile DAW looks like, here's what's essential, here are the optional add-ons." I get conflicting reports on this issue from industry websites -- and even when I sort through the BS, I still have acronyms and jargon that make no sense. I really think someone should write up a neutral, fair-minded description of the possibilities, and put it into a wikipedia article on computer-based "digital audio recording." > Appogee makes the MINI ME, a high quality AD converter with direct USB > and Firewire connections. But it doesn't have a DA converter. For DA > converters, I'd look into the > Benchmark DAC-1. You are you suggesting that MINI ME + Benchmark DAC-1 + MacBook + Logic = a complete mobile workstation? Best, Ben

Thanks for the tips -- I have already been doing "Mac Pro Video" on Logic basics and its great. Best, benja

On Jul 9, 2007, at 10:23 AM, Ben Carson wrote: > Message posted by Ben Carson <Benja.Carson@gmail.com>: > > Thanks to everyone for the time and effort in helping me out. Now a > few more questions: > >> There are much better options than in MBox (IMHO). The RME ADI-2 >> is just >> an AD/DA converter. It has not direct connection to your computer. >> You >> would still need an audio interface with Digital I/O > > So, like what, for example? Does this mean I should buy an AD/DA > conv, a DA/AD conv, and an "audio interface with Digital I/O", all > separately? No, especially not if you are asking that question. > OR if there's something that handles all three (like Mbox 2), then > where do I learn about it? There are lots of things that do all three. RME makes scads of them. Metric Halo makes a bunch too. Mark of the Unicorn makes a bunch more. I personally am using all Metric Halo stuff. It sounds very nice and has good cost performance and > I'm willing to do research, but I just don't know how to start. > Apple never says, anywhere, "here's what a mobile DAW looks like, > here's what's essential, here are the optional add-ons." > > I get conflicting reports on this issue from industry websites -- > and even when I sort through the BS, It sounds like you are not really familiar enough with the lexicography to sort through the BS. There is of coarse a lot of marketing BS on those sites but just because you are not familiar with the terminology you should not assume that it is *all* BS. > I still have acronyms and jargon that make no sense. I really think > someone should write up a neutral, fair-minded description of the > possibilities, and put it into a wikipedia article on computer- > based "digital audio recording." > >> Appogee makes the MINI ME, a high quality AD converter with direct >> USB >> and Firewire connections. But it doesn't have a DA converter. For DA >> converters, I'd look into the > Benchmark DAC-1. > > You are you suggesting that MINI ME + Benchmark DAC-1 + MacBook + > Logic = a complete mobile workstation? It would but from your questions I think you should stick to an all in one interface, like depending on whether you can do with just stereo analog ins and outs one of these: http://www.mhlabs.com/metric_halo/products/mio/uln2/ Or if you need 8 analog ins and 8 analog outs: http://www.mhlabs.com/metric_halo/products/mio/2882/ Either one of those + a lap top + and logic, is all you need to produce the finest music you can make.

I can recommend RME! The Fireface 400 or 800 sounds very good, very solid digital clock, which means a lot if you later want to use the equipment together with other stuff in the studio. look here: http://www.rme-audio.de/en_index.php Regards Stig Christensen stigc56@mac.com

Thank you Dennis. I certainly didn't mean to say that it was all BS -- BS is not my concern. What I meant to say is simply that this industry is making a mistake--there's this pronounced unwillingness to communicate to neophytes. (At the moment, if I want to learn whether or not I need an audio card, or how to compare MOTU to Metric Halo to RME...I search for terminology 20 times an hour and end up nowhere. Try it and let me know if you come up with anything different...?) This frustration doesn't indicate any overall ignorance on my part (I've studied acoustics, sound synthesis, and I know how to buy a microphone)...but it does reflect a shortage of good, sincere teachers like yourself. Going beyond the "you'll never understand" mantra. very refreshing. So, you're right, I'm building a laptop system, and I need just two XLR's running into something portable. Any other help you can offer on how to distinguish the options (RME vs MOTU vs MetricHalo, etc.), would be most useful. Thank you! Ben

Sweetwater Sound has one of the best resources i've found for info. They have an extensive glossary and an archive of pretty hip technical tips. Both can be searched..... Check them out here: http://www.sweetwater.com/expert-center/

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, dennis gunn <dennis@...> wrote: > It would but from your questions I think you should stick to an all > in one interface, like depending on whether you can do with just > stereo analog ins and outs one of these: > > http://www.mhlabs.com/metric_halo/products/mio/uln2/ > > Or if you need 8 analog ins and 8 analog outs: > > http://www.mhlabs.com/metric_halo/products/mio/2882/ > > Either one of those + a lap top + and logic, is all you need to > produce the finest music you can make. > I'd take a serious look at the MH proucts (Metric Halo sorry it is an area **full** of acronyms!) For 2 analogue + 2 digital ins/outs look at the unl/unl + dsp. They'll work as either a soundcard, AD/DA or even as a dsp (digital signal processing) box, if you get the +dsp versions, or all of the above at the same time. This means you could continue using your mbox to run PTLE and use the uln's great preamps and clock via digital, or use it on its own with Logic. Its bus powered, although due to recent tinkering with apple's firewire implementation on the new intel macs, you may need to 'hotwire' it, although if you have a recent PowerBook (as opposed to macbook or macbook pro) you don't need to bother with this. The **only** thing it doesn't have is midi. I have a 2882+dsp and its capabilities are unmatched. Mike

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, "Ben Carson" <forums@...> wrote: > > Message posted by Ben Carson <Benja.Carson@...>: > > So, like what, for example? Does this mean I should buy an AD/DA conv, a DA/AD conv, >and an "audio interface with Digital I/O", all separately? OR if >there's something that >handles all three (like Mbox 2), then where do I learn about it? I'm >willing to do research, >but I just don't know how to start. Apple never says, >anywhere, "here's what a mobile DAW >looks like, here's what's essential, here are the optional add-ons." There are many manufacturers of audio interfaces and it all comes down to your needs and how much money you can afford to spend. Some are just AD/DA converters and require a digital connection to your computer. Others off direct connect via firewire, USB or PCI card. If you're going portable, then an "all in one" interface would be the most convenient. The best performace will come from a PCMCIA card. This is equivilent to the PCI cards that are installed in desktop computers. It conncets directly to your computers mother board. Firewire or USB 2.0 would be the next best option. "High End" $2000.00 and up Most of these products are offered in 2 channel or 8 channel configurations. Most do not offer Pre-Amps. Prism - Dream ADA 8 - These are (IMHO) the best 8 channel converters on the market. This configuration offers 8 Analog Inputs and Outputs. This also offers direct connection with a firewire card installed. Really nice, but at $12,000.00, it's expensive! Prisim have released the Orpheus - an 8 channel firewire interface with the same converters as the flagship Dream converters. But at $5000.00, it's still expensive. Apogee makes their flagship converters AD16X and DA16X. If you need 16 inputs and outputs, these make an excellent combo. They also make the Rosetta 800 with 8 I/O as well. These offer a firewire option and the new mobile symphony PCMCIA card. Another option is to check out the older Apogee AD8000. These were the flagship converters of yesterday. They only go to 48K, but still sound amazing. You can find these on ebay for around $1500. They offer an 8 channel DAC card and can be fitted with a firewire card. Lynx Aurora have 8 and 16 I/O configurations with firewire and are of excellent quality and offer firewire options. There are many other manufactures that make "high end" converters. You could check out Mytek, Lavery, API, Universal Audio, Manley, Cranesong..... For mid level Prosumer (Professional Consumer) RME make firewire interfaces. They also offer a PCMCIA card that most of their interfaces can connect to as well. Their converters are excellent for the money. They have blurred the lines a bit between the "high end" and "mid level" markets in terms of quality. Metric Halo are another company that "blur" the lines offering excellent quality for the money. 2882 offers 8 i/o, while the ULN-2 offers 2 i/o with excellent preamps. Apogee have offered up the Ensemble. The quality of the converters lies somewhere between the Rosetta 800 and the MiniMe. They also have 4 nice Pre-Amps that can be controlled from with in Logic Pro itslef. This is a short list of products that should get you going in terms of research. You can check out some of these websites as well.... http://www.mercenaryaudio.com/addaconversion.html http://vintageking.com/Converters-Interfaces?range=1%2C40%2C148 http://www.mhlabs.com/metric_halo/products/ http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/ensemble.php http://www.prismsound.com/music_recording/studio_home.php Best Wishes and Happy Researching.... Andrew