Here ya go dave.... http://www.generalmusic.com Steve parker.

On Oct 31, 2004, at 3:45 PM, steve parker wrote: > Here ya go dave.... > > http://www.generalmusic.com > > Steve parker. > Steve! Thanks Dave Shirk

i was able to recreate this bug if i had a 'waves' plug open, just before trying to scroll. i don't know if that helps anyone, but i pulled the waves out of the my au folder and everything is totally cool. -chris on the list

> > When I'm on my Audio mixer page and I select "create Track Mixer", it > > often gives me only one or two of my active audio instruments, for > > example. If I click "GLOBAL", they're all there. But go back to > > "instruments' and only 1 or 2 out of 10 show up... What's up with that? > > Since nobody's replied to this I figured I would... I have no answer! > Track mixer seems to function almost as erratically as Logic "Pro"'s > 'groups' feature. > > Doesn't anyone have any insight on getting the Track mixer to show ALL > the relevant tracks? > > While I'm not going as far as others who've suggested legal action > against Apple for L7's quirks, I'd definitely say that for me it has > NOT been worth the money. If I could get my money back, I would. Tim, I would suggest not using the track mixer. Instead, open the audio environment. You may have to create all the audio and instrument tracks you need...then save it as autoload...it will then be there for you when you reopen Logic. Hope it Helps, Ivan

amgmamgma wrote: > They should be responsible, and they're getting away with murder No, they're getting away with buggy software. When a company does get away with murder (or any physical harm), as is the case with, say, some car companies, there are indeed laws in most countries to protect the consumer. f-erenc szabo, smarty pants Z+E+R+O+B+E+A+T "NOW POWERED BY THE MIRACLE OF THE TRANSISTOR!" <http://home.goodmedia.com/~zerobeat>

> > My solution for the simple question of solution for playback was to > > have > > installed an ATTO UL4D Ultra 320 card and a SCSI raid capable of > > reading 200+ MB/sec. > > Logic 6.3.3 is working pretty flawlessly, and the drives put out all > > the tracks I need without > > any hickups. It will loop a few bars of 90 tracks all day long. > > Hi Ivan, > > Thanks for this report! I think what it shows is very useful. It > suggests that while other applications may have more robust disk/cache > handling than Logic, it IS possible to get high track counts from > Logic, if willing to invest in extra hardware. Ideally, it shouldn't > be necessary to invest in extra hardware to use Logic at high track > counts if it is not necessary to invest in extra hardware to use > Cubase/Nuendo at high track counts, but it is good to know that it is > possible. > > Orren Orren and Ivan i've followed this discussion in and out, but i wanted to add that i have done extensive drive testing with logic and have never seen RAID improve performance. i've got a dual G5 and have tried every combination of drives from a RAID made up of 8 15K SCSI drives attached to an ATTO UL4d (4 drives per channel - read and write times around 270 MB/ sec) to a firewire 400 drive. and this is what i've seen: 1. RAID does not improve performance with logic. when using a RAID with logic, i've always gotten the same performance as using a single drive from that RAID. meaning, the 8 drive 15K SCSI RAID performed audio playback at the same level as a single 15K scsi drive. so if ivan is getting 90 looped tracks to playback from his RAID, my guess is he would get that exact same performance from 1 of the drives which make up the RAID. 2. Logic on X can not make use of multiple drives for playing back audio. well, i should say - it can playback audio from multiple drives, but it doesn't improve track count performance to do so. meaning - if you can play back 50 tracks from 1 drive and you add a second drive just like it, you will still only be able to playback 50 tracks (even if you split the tracks evenly across both drives). 3. if you think Logic playback performance is bad at 44.1, try it at 96K - it degrades dramatically at higher sample rates. and i'm not talking about being able to play 1/2 the tracks at 88.2 as 44.1 - i'm talking about being able to play about 30% of the tracks at 88.2 that you can at 44.1. 4. Logic exhibits the same lack of performance improvement when using multiple drives with the EXS for streaming samples - you can stream from multiple drives but it does not improve performance. meaning, i experience dropped data at the same point in songs whether streaming from 1 scsi drive (all instruments on 1 drive) or from 8 (with the instruments spread out across the 8 drives). for more info on some of my testing of various drive set-ups with 96K go here: http://community.sonikmatter.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=‰28&hl= for confirmation of another logic user who initially thought he was seeing improvement from a RAID only to test it and discover her wasn't, go here: http://discussions.info.apple.com/webx?14@46.SoRPaBRjAsO.0@.689d9169 anyway, just wanted to add my experience for anyone considering going the RAID route. in my experience, the best track count performance you can get from logic is with the single fastest drive. at the moment, that remains a 15K scsi drive. i really do hope that apple gets on the ball with this.

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, Chris DeStefano <c.destefano@c...> wrote: > > i was able to recreate this bug if i had a 'waves' plug open, just > before trying to scroll. i don't know if that helps anyone, but i > pulled the waves out of the my au folder and everything is totally > cool. > > -chris on the list WAVES, Spectrasonics, and Native Instruments seem to be the biggest culprits of the AU "Scroll Bar" dilemma. These companies need to step up and produce quality AU's, instead of VST wannabes. You shouldn't have to undo Quartz Extreme in order to run your plugs.

On Oct 31, 2004, at 12:20 PM, haven siguenza wrote: > This would be so nice. lack of this feature is one of the reasons I > prefer ProTools for recording. example - I want to take note of my > recording path, mics, compressors etc - especially in multi mic setups > like big drum kits. I would also like this for my big electronica > songs, all those tracks get confusing after a while, notes would be > awesome. I agree. It would be especially great if each note could be drag-linked to any object in the program, whether it's a sequence, region. Any linked notes could be brought forward by control clicking or right clicking and choosing from the menu. Stefan

> --- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, "timsonian" <timburns@p...> wrote: >> When I'm on my Audio mixer page and I select "create Track Mixer", it >> often gives me only one or two of my active audio instruments, for >> example. If I click "GLOBAL", they're all there. But go back to >> "instruments' and only 1 or 2 out of 10 show up... What's up with that? > > Since nobody's replied to this I figured I would... I have no answer! > Track mixer seems to function almost as erratically as Logic "Pro"'s > 'groups' feature. > > Doesn't anyone have any insight on getting the Track mixer to show ALL > the relevant tracks? > > While I'm not going as far as others who've suggested legal action > against Apple for L7's quirks, I'd definitely say that for me it has > NOT been worth the money. If I could get my money back, I would. The track mixer in its normal view only shows tracks that are present on the arrange page. You can have a number of instruments active, but if they are not actually on the arrange page, they won't show up in the track mixer. James

On Oct 31, 2004, at 7:37 AM, Peter Ostry wrote: > > On Oct 29, 2004, at 17:39, Sascha Franck wrote: > >> Has anybody tried feeding GAPro straight from a D.I. box? > > Yes, is much better. But now the "behind the curtain" sound is even > more audible :) > Maybe this can be cured with some sound processing but I think I put > this handy little helper aside and use it just for quick sound search. > > Peter Ostry Peter, What does your signal chain include? I've tried using a H&K Red box, either through a Mackie board's mic pres, and also straight in balanced to my MOTU 2048 mkII, but that didn't really help with the noise problem. I'm guessing, as with real amps, a noise gate might be the answer, but I haven't found settings for Logic's noise suppressor that are satisfactory. Eric

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, Chris DeStefano <c.destefano@c...> wrote: > > i was able to recreate this bug if i had a 'waves' plug open, just > before trying to scroll. i don't know if that helps anyone, but i > pulled the waves out of the my au folder and everything is totally > cool. > > -chris on the list--- > I don't even have Waves and it happens to me. I don't use the scroll bars anymore so I am not sure what plugs are at fault, but I suspect there are quite a few. I still think it is a Logic problem (and not the AU programmers)

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, "ivandeaton" <ivandeaton@y...> wrote: > > > > When I'm on my Audio mixer page and I select "create Track Mixer", it > > > often gives me only one or two of my active audio instruments, for > > > example. If I click "GLOBAL", they're all there. But go back to > > > "instruments' and only 1 or 2 out of 10 show up... What's up with that? > > > > Since nobody's replied to this I figured I would... I have no answer! > > Track mixer seems to function almost as erratically as Logic "Pro"'s > > 'groups' feature. > > > > Doesn't anyone have any insight on getting the Track mixer to show ALL > > the relevant tracks? > > > > While I'm not going as far as others who've suggested legal action > > against Apple for L7's quirks, I'd definitely say that for me it has > > NOT been worth the money. If I could get my money back, I would. i had same troubles try this if you select inst and global isn't lit, your not going to get all your tracks you have in the arrange,while inst is selectged then select global again and the only 2 selected are global and inst. its a pain and not sure thats how they intended it > >

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, "d4beta" <dbetanc@m...> wrote: > > > Hello, > > I've been expierencing Digital Crackling noises, like out of sync clock distortion when I use > my 002R and Logic Using CoreAudio 6.5.2. The clock is set to INTERNAL. This is > happening in 2 different systems with identical machines. (G5 2.0 Ghz / 5.5 Gb RAM, 002R > and Logic 6.4 or Logic 7. I also have a MOTU PCI 424 and a 2408 in one of them , and > this problem never happens when I use COre Auido with the PCI-424 > > To fix it, I have to restart the 002R. Is there anything I should be aware of using this > combination? > > Thanks! > > Daniel i wish emagic or apple would warn people from using the digi 002 with logic. there are serious core audio problems using the 2 together. i've been through it. i had to install a earlier operating system 10.3 and digi core audio 6.4 (6.5.2 really screws things up.) its not perfect but it gets you by. looking to sell my digi and get something that works. you must call digi and complain or there never going to work out the core audio problems with logic.

>> When I'm on my Audio mixer page and I select "create Track Mixer", it >> often gives me only one or two of my active audio instruments, for >> example. If I click "GLOBAL", they're all there. But go back to >> "instruments' and only 1 or 2 out of 10 show up... What's up with >> that? > > Since nobody's replied to this I figured I would... I have no answer! > Track mixer seems to function almost as erratically as Logic "Pro"'s > 'groups' feature. > > Doesn't anyone have any insight on getting the Track mixer to show ALL > the relevant tracks? > > While I'm not going as far as others who've suggested legal action > against Apple for L7's quirks, I'd definitely say that for me it has > NOT been worth the money. If I could get my money back, I would. try enabling the icon for all the tracks in your arrange. it's a little checkbox that you can tick in the parameter box when you select the track. or do it quickly by going to your audio environment, select all, then enable the icon. only tracks with the icon box ticked will show up in the track mixer. this is not well documented, and stumps a lot of users.. (naughty emagic, naughty apple)... don't give up on logic just yet.. it's better than you think... ;) regards, antonio

--- In logic-users@yahoogroups.com, "jonathankek2000" <jonathankek2000@y...> wrote: > You shouldn't have to undo Quartz Extreme in order to > run your plugs. Has that been confirmed? Does undoing Quartz Extreme actually stop the scroll bar crash? BTW it also happens in pHATmatik pro apparently (from the OSX forum) and I just had it happen on a wrapped VST of Blockfish. I've also had it happen just scrolling in the arrange window in a really long tune (27 mins) but that only happened when I first got Logic 7 and it might have been from some other cause. If any one knows of a list of plugs that this happens in, post it here please. David

Can anyone help me connecting up an Alesis Q20 to Logic? I think what I am trying to do is use it as an insert or on a bus but I am a bit unclear on all that. My set up is Mac G5, MOTU 828 and Midisport 8x8. If anyone could help me with the right connections I'd be very greatful. Thanks S

There seem to be two threads about performance that have come up in this forum: Latency (you want very low latency for tracking via software monitoring, if you need to track through effects such as a guitar amp) and Disk/Track count (which you want very high for large projects). This is NOT a test for track count. I set out to do a latency comparison between Logic 7 and Cubase SX3. First of all, my testing methodology (curtesy of Dennis Gunn): 1) Rec-Enable a stereo track 2) Plug guitar into one of the stereo inputs (in my case, right) 3) Route output (in my case, right) into the other input (in my case, left) 4) Record transients (hitting pickup with piece of metal) 5) Open region in SE and count the sample distance between the right and left transients. This gives a pretty accurate reading of round trip latency. I am recording 24-bit, 44.1k files. I am using an RME HDSP 9632 card which feeds a SPDIF signal to Metric Halo Mobile I/O ULN2 which serves as AD/DA and Mic-Preamp for the signals. After each of the latency tests, I do a "reality check playback test" in which I run a demo song at that buffer setting, as a test to see if that buffer setting is realistic for recording/playing back a project. I chose demo songs because since they are included with the package, everyone can verify my results on their machines, and because the demos are usually optimized to run well. Test machine: PowerMac G5 2Ghz dual processor, 1GB RAM, OSX 10.3.5 I'll start with Logic 7. 1st Logic Test: Core Audio Buffer: 64 samples Samples of Latency: 480 samples CPU usage of single stereo 24/44.1 track armed w/guitar amp pro inserted: less than 5% 2nd Logic Test: Core Audio Buffer: 32 samples Samples of Latency: 376 samples CPU usage of single stereo 24/44.1 track armed w/guitar amp pro inserted: about 5% Reality Check Playback Test: For my reality test, I ran the Logic 7 Demo Song (12" Full Track version). This song consists of: 50 tracks 17 Audio Instruments 100+ effects This song runs at 50% at 128 samples, with one peak at 80%. At 64 sample buffer, this song ran at about 60% CPU with one peak at 90%. At 32 sample buffer, this song ran at about 70% CPU with one peak at about 100% (both meters full up) but there was no audio dropout at all. In other words, recording tracks at 64 samples with a song like this could work, but recording tracks at 32 samples with a song like this might not work. Now for Cubase SX3. Cubase does not allow for buffer settings below 64 samples. Buffer: 64 samples Samples of latency: 545 samples However: Cubase SX 3 has an "Expert" mode in its driver section so I ran more tests: Audio Priority to Very High: 545 samples Lower Latency Checked: 416 samples Multi-Processing Unchecked: 545 samples Lower Latency, MP off, Very High Audio Priority: 416 samples. CPU usage of single stereo 24/44.1 track track armed w/overdrive effect inserted at 64 sample, low latency checked: 15%. Reality Check Playback Test: I used one of the SX3 demos, Blofeld's Return, because it also ran at 50% CPU at a 128 sample buffer. The song consists of: 42 tracks 4 instruments 5 plug-ins With my buffers set at 64 samples, this song would simply not play. At 64 samples and low latency the song seemed to be playing at varispeed, way slow and with lots of crackles (and peaked the meter regularly). With low latency off and audio priority set to high, the song played back normally, but there were still a couple peaks that caused audio dropouts. Even setting the preload to 6 seconds (the maximum allowed) the song simply would not play back at all. At 128 samples, however, even with Low Latency checked, the song ran at 50% CPU. From these results, I'm not sure if 64 sample recording is feasible in anything but a very small project using Cubase SX3 on a Macintosh. I'm assuming that its PC ASIO results would be better, however. (REMEMBER: this is not a "track count" test. With the buffer at 512 samples, the CPU use for the Cubase SX demo song drops to 20% and playback is not an issue. This is ONLY a low latency test). Analysis: Cubase/Nuendo may be the track count king, but for low latency recording with effects, Logic Pro 7 gets the nod. Orren -- http://www.mertonfolio.com Author of: • Logic_6_Power • GarageBand Ignite http://www.courseptr.com/ptr_catalog.cfm?group=Music%20Technology

> Orren and Ivan > > i've followed this discussion in and out, but i wanted to add that i > have done extensive > drive testing with logic and have never seen RAID improve > performance. i've got a dual G5 > and have tried every combination of drives from a RAID made up of 8 > 15K SCSI drives > attached to an ATTO UL4d (4 drives per channel - read and write times > around 270 MB/ > sec) to a firewire 400 drive. and this is what i've seen: > > 1. RAID does not improve performance with logic. when using a RAID > with logic, i've > always gotten the same performance as using a single drive from that > RAID. meaning, the > 8 drive 15K SCSI RAID performed audio playback at the same level as a > single 15K scsi > drive. so if ivan is getting 90 looped tracks to playback from his > RAID, my guess is he > would get that exact same performance from 1 of the drives which make > up the RAID. > > 2. Logic on X can not make use of multiple drives for playing back > audio. well, i should > say - it can playback audio from multiple drives, but it doesn't > improve track count > performance to do so. meaning - if you can play back 50 tracks from > 1 drive and you add > a second drive just like it, you will still only be able to playback > 50 tracks (even if you split > the tracks evenly across both drives). > > 3. if you think Logic playback performance is bad at 44.1, try it at > 96K - it degrades > dramatically at higher sample rates. and i'm not talking about being > able to play 1/2 the > tracks at 88.2 as 44.1 - i'm talking about being able to play about > 30% of the tracks at > 88.2 that you can at 44.1. > > 4. Logic exhibits the same lack of performance improvement when > using multiple drives > with the EXS for streaming samples - you can stream from multiple > drives but it does not > improve performance. meaning, i experience dropped data at the same > point in songs > whether streaming from 1 scsi drive (all instruments on 1 drive) or > from 8 (with the > instruments spread out across the 8 drives). > Well, You are absolutely WRONG on every point except #3(...yes,96k does impeed performance). I've had years of experience with this, and what I've found is this... 45 tracks on an interanl ATA will playback fine. 90 tracks on the internal ATA will stop the system... ie...core audio error message. I can take half the 90 tracs and put them on the OTHER internal ATA and all 90 playback as easy as the single drive playing 45 tracs. The same 90 on a SCSI array playback even easier with no probs. With slower drives it is quite easy to watch the audio performance meter turning red as well as just listening for problems and watching the computer stop playback trying to crunch data. This not only was the case with the Dual 2 gig, but easily quantifiable on the dual 800 I have when I went from internal drives to an internal 160 SCSI with one 15k Cheetah way back on Logic 4. I've mixed a lot of records on these systems, and drive speed is THE difference between success and utter frustration. By the way, I'm talking about actual full song length 44.1 24 bit wave, or SDII files in the arrange window. The setup is a dual 2 gig G5 with 2 gig of RAM. 2 internal 250 gig serial ATA's, a 72 gig SCSI array thru an ATTO UL4D, an RME digi card playing back thru an Apogee AD 8000. Drive speed is THE difference. Regards, Ivan

> Has that been confirmed? Does undoing Quartz Extreme actually stop > the scroll bar crash? It's been thrown out to the forum that this will work. I don't think this has really been tested enough to call it a definite fix, but it has worked for at least one member. > BTW it also happens in pHATmatik pro apparently (from the OSX forum) > and I just had it happen on a wrapped VST of Blockfish. I've also > had it happen just scrolling in the arrange window in a really long > tune (27 mins) but that only happened when I first got Logic 7 and > it might have been from some other cause. I have over 200 plug-ins in Logic 7 and they all work great, with no scroll bar crashes. Since my update with Waves driver 5.0.1b2, I have no more Scroll bar crashes with Waves. No problems with Elemental, Ohmboyz, UAD-1 plugs, Vintagewarmer or a VST wrapped version of MasterQ. Even Autotune VST is working and it doesn't authorize. Sculpture works, Cameleon5000 works, and so does Zebra. I still have crashes when using Native Instruments, and many of their plugs won't authorize. There have been a lot of problems with Spectrosonics plugs in general. Spectrosonics has admitted to the problem, and are working on updates for Trilogy, Atmosphere, and Stylus. If anyone else has any information on "bad" plug-ins for Logic 7, please post them.

> From: "jonathankek2000" <jonathankek2000@...> >WAVES, Spectrasonics, and Native Instruments seem to be the biggest >culprits of the AU "Scroll Bar" dilemma. > >These companies need to step up and produce quality AU's, instead of >VST wannabes. You shouldn't have to undo Quartz Extreme in order to >run your plugs. Those companies all produce extremely high quality plug-ins, some of the best of the lot. It hasn't been determined that the plugins are the sole problem, has it? It could also be a problem how Logic is interacting with the plugin's graphics and Quartz Xtreme. HW

> Analysis: Cubase/Nuendo may be the track count king, but for low > latency recording with effects, Logic Pro 7 gets the nod. > > Orren Which is exactly my findings also. I have also stated many times that the CPU optimization for Macintosh and OS X in Logic is much better than it is in Cubase SX. Which also seems to be proven by your results. Good job, Orren.

Hi- Is there a way to use the same Midi track object to trigger multiple Midi Instruments (a layer of both hard synth and soft synths especially)?I don't like making a copy of the track and assigning it to different instruments for obvious reasons........Thanks Cheers

> From: Orren Merton <orren@...> >Analysis: Cubase/Nuendo may be the track count king, but for low >latency recording with effects, Logic Pro 7 gets the nod. Remember, Cubase has a fully compensated bus system, in the tests I've done between Cubase 1.xx (only insterts are compensated) and 2.xx I've found the fully compensated bus definitely hits the CPU. When Logic's fully compensated bus system arrives, you will take a performance hit, to what extent is the question. HW

> There have been a lot of problems with > Spectrosonics plugs in general. Spectrosonics has admitted to the > problem, and are working on updates for Trilogy, Atmosphere, and Stylus. Well, they admiitted there is a Logic problem with scrollbars. From the recent RMX update info: "Implemented workaround to Logic7 scrollbar crash problem". They also said they're gonna take it back out once Logic gets it's problem fixed. best, Jon

On Nov 1, 2004, at 00:54, Eric Lee wrote: >>> Has anybody tried feeding GAPro straight from a D.I. box? >> >> Yes, is much better. But now the "behind the curtain" sound is even >> more audible :) >> Maybe this can be cured with some sound processing but I think I put >> this handy little helper aside and use it just for quick sound search. >> >> Peter Ostry > > What does your signal chain include? Very short signal chain. I simply plugged the guitar straight into the input of a Firewire 410 which claims to be compensated for pickup input. Didn't care about frequency correction but got a good levelled clean signal and far less noise in Guitar Amp Pro. > I've tried using a H&K Red box, either through a Mackie board's mic > pres, and also straight in balanced to my MOTU 2048 mkII, but that > didn't really help with the noise problem. I tried a rather good compressor as a frontend (Fat Man) but it is also unusable because of noise. The Firewire 410 alone works. I am surprised that going straight into the MOTU gives you much noise because interfaces alone usually add very little or no noise. Did you add much gain or do you have an active pickup on the guitar? > I'm guessing, as with real amps, a noise gate might be the answer, but > I haven't found settings for Logic's noise suppressor that are > satisfactory. No, this plugin can't do the job. And it looks like GAP sees any sound as very important. Unfortunately this is not right behavior - there are problems in the usual guitar/amp chain we do not like in reality (i.e. noise). They have to be suppressed but not taken as part of the model... Peter Ostry