On 03/11/2006, at 10:26 AM, Paul Najar wrote: > > On 02/11/2006, at 10:44 PM, Joe Lonsdale wrote: > >> Message posted by Joe Lonsdale <joe@joepublicstudios.com>: >> >> I am still hunting for a REALLY GOOD drum-sample-set or virtual- >> instrument. >> I currently use BFD and have both the original kit and the Steve >> Albini >> extension kit, but find the snare samples 'thin' and 'scratchy', the >> under-snare mic very harsh with no pleasant 'highs' to bring out >> and the >> cymbals seem to sound a little 'out-of-phase' or something - they >> just don't >> 'ring' right. > > Hmm. I have the same libraries and none of my clients or my world > class mastering guy can even tell weather the drums are recorded live > or BFD. This for mainstream rock and pop mostly. In the original kits > I felt the kicks were not great but the Albini (Deluxe) collection > fixed that. > > It definitely took some time with this plugin to get my sounds really > honking though. In particular the hi hat options are daunting but > extremely useful once you get your head around them. Making sure you > get the right velocity layer of each sound for the setting can be > tricky also. Also since ver 1.5 the output assignments are really > improved. Now I take close mic outs for each drum, a stereo blend of > all the room mics, and a stereo blend of just the dry cymbals + their > room mics only. This seems to work best for me and allows mixing in a > similar way to how I would mix a live drum recording - but more > controlled and without mic spill. > >> I know this is all a matter of personal taste, but to put it >> into perspective I recently heard the best drum samples I've ever >> heard - >> home made by some guy with a drum kit and a a prject studio - warm, >> rich, >> full and fabulous - he was very proud of them and wouldn't share >> them - >> can't blame him really. Why do all the sample sets sound so 'thin'? > > Yes there is personal taste involved but you can kind of be on the > same page just using words. Words like thin & scratchy definitely do > not come close to describing the overall character of the BFD > libraries you mention IMO. > >> I have >> also used DFH and as well as a couple of ProSessions sample sets >> and always >> find the a similar problem. IS IT ME???? > > It might be you. There is no question that there is a large > psychological influence involved in the perception of sound. Other > than that, did you hear your friends' samples in his studio or yours? > It may be your monitoring environment. > > Reminds me of a joke - A guy goes to his doctor and say "Doc, it > hurts when I touch myself here, (on arm) here, (on leg) here, (on > head) etc... Doctor says "ah! I think I have the answer - you have a > broken finger... > >> >> PS: I know the ideal solution is to get a real drummer - but that >> is not >> possible or desirable for my situation... > > I don't agree with this entirely either. When money is no object this > may be right, but for the other 99% of the time - assuming you can > really handle the percussion arranging duties and how that translates > into midi data and how in turn that sets off BFD in just the right > way - you will get a better result for a fraction of the cost IMO. > > I'm sure you can tell by the tone of my post that I love my BFD. It's > allowed me to have within my own personal control a level of acoustic > drum programming that was previously almost impossible to achieve - > but it's also true that it's not for everybody. That's why audio > based drum and percussion libraries are so popular. Personally I > dislike to a large degree working with audio based drum phrases - but > then as you say it is personal. > > Kind regards > > > ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > Paul Najar > Jaminajar Music Production > www.jaminajar.com > > Hi Guys I am also an avid BFD user with the Extras DVDs. I find the snares generally pretty tight sounding as a rule of thumb but I generally get around any issues of that nature by mixing in some extra snare samples alongside the BFD samples. I find something "tubby" like a 707 snare works beautifully to give a little weight. Also it helps big time if use the Auxes in BFD to obtain optimum separation. I also bus the snares, including any samples, to a separate bus so I can compress and eq them as a whole while still having the ability to work on individual components. I use the Logic Enveloper a lot!! It as a magnificent transient shaping tool, which I believe (shoot me down on this one guys) was modeled on the SPL Transient Designer. My 2c worth. Cheers Clive Young www.studiotwelve.com.au Ph/Fax: +613 9808 1909 Mob/Cell: +61419 530 873 12 Roberts Avenue Box hIll South