Benjamin Dreessen wrote: > Message posted by Benjamin Dreessen > <bjdreessen@sbcglobal.net>: > > OK, Mr. Thomas's comments lead to another issue. I recently heard > that a very well respected mastering guru said that, when mixing, > people should back off on their levels and allow as much dynamic > range as possible in the mixdown—this instead of trying to get the > individual tracks as hot as possible without crossing the line. There > was also some talk about gain staging involved. Anyway, I took this > to heart and started backing off my track levels until there was no > clipping whatsoever on the output stereo track with no plugin. Exactly right. If your audio is recorded at a decent level, many of your individual track faders will be quite low. The mix should not clip the output at all. I find it useful to set the output of all my tracks to a bus, then route the output of that bus to the stereo output. This way if I put any plugins on the output I can see (and easily raise or lower) the level going in with the bus fader. I > ended up dropping levels by as much as 12 or 14 db, Whoa! and then I > figured I could make it up with VW and should end up with a clearer, > more open and dynamic sound. This did help quite a bit, but as I > said, my stuff just sounded tiny and flat next to Badly Drawn > Boy—until I cranked the volume a bit. Then it sounded much more > comparable in volume and dynamics, though not quite as sweet and > open. That part I can attribute to superior pres, mics, equipment and > engineering skill. > > So, If I understand you right, Mr. Thomas, some of the perceived > level is just better, more musical pres, mics, rooms, etc., and > better skill in the use of equipment/plugins. No, I'm saying it can often be done in the mastering (provided your mix is basically sound, i.e not muddy, nothing too extreme and definitely no out of phase issues). If you want loud then compression of individual tracks is going to help, but will of course lead top a less dynamic track. I also like to use filtering (high and or low) to get a certain degree of separation. E.G. If my mix is just guitar bass and drums, I may do very little EQing, but if it's Guitar, organ piano bass and drums I might put a high pass filter on the guitar to get give it its own "space" in the mix and allow the warmth of the piano to fill the low mids instead, otherwise it can easily get muddy down there. These days digital mastering studios are using plugins that aren't necessarily 100 x better than many of the affordable plugins in home studios. The skill at using them (in combinations) is certainly a factor, but so are the room and monitors they have that you don't. So are the experience at amstering and ears they have that most I love VW and use it for cheap and cheerful mastering of demos to get the tracks sounding as loud as commercial tracks, but I think it does it in a way that makes the sound "dirty". > > And if VW only goes halfway there, which I don't doubt, are you of > the opinion that the only way to really get all the way there, is to > send the stuff to a Mastering house? Any recommendations for that? > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Logic Users Group (LUG) - http://logic-users.org Search the LUG: > http://logic-users.org/forums/LUG/search Logic FAQ: > http://logicfaq.omega-art.com/ List Policy: > http://logic-users.org/forums/LUG/policy > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/logic-users/join (Yahoo! ID required) > > > > > > > > > -- Pete Thomas www.petethomas.co.uk Logic Tutorials, Hints, Tips, free Icons, Environments EXS Instruments (donationware) ***Please support my trek in the Andes in aid of APEC*** ***info & sponsorship: http://www.justgiving.com/petethomas***