There is an update of Waves site that cuts that hog in half. I've got the TDM Gold bundle so it's a moot point with me. -- Barry Young > > One tip - if you're using > the native renaissance reverb, it's a total hog. try another verb if > you have one. > > Malcolm > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Just a brief question: To celebrate the 7000th subscriber to the Logic User Group, a very nice plugin company has a deal it wants to offer to the Logic Users Group. My question to everyone: Do you want that deal now, or do you want it some time after the 5.0 release etc? (read on before replying!!) The alternative would be somewhere at the end of February or in the beginning of March. I know not everyone has the budget to buy e.g. a Logic 5.0 update and a plugin package... so I'd like to hear as many opinions as possible. (I'm not sure about the price range of the plugins, but I think it'll be somewhere in the 100-150 USD range, but there are too many variables to tell for sure) Send replies to me PRIVATELY please: mailto:joeri@... If possible, remove "LUG" from the subject line or my email program's filter will place the mails in the wrong folder. Just a small hint.... "these guys have electifying plugins"! ;-) For the new subscribers: every couple of months, this list buys something in group. The advantage is that we get huge price reductions that way. Hope to hear from you! Joeri -- Joeri Vankeirsbilck joeri@... Belway Productions - http://www.belway.com List-admin Logic-users/SoundD*ver-users/Logic-TDM

Would be great if Emagic could address the incompatiblities with different systems in a future update. Importing non-native files in Logic TDM is a pita. Also there is no way to change an old enviroment into a TDM one. Also loading (I don't even dare to say saving) standard midi files. > My advice would be to open the native session and bounce your tracks with > the edits as split files, then import the them into the TDM session. > -- > > Barry Young > > > > From: antpatan <antpatan@...> > > Reply-To: logic-tdm@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 21:05:10 +0000 > > To: logic-tdm@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [L-TDM] How can I Use STEREO INTERLEAVED FILES With LOGIC TDM? > > > > HI ! > > Until few months ago, I used LOGIC with MOTU Interfaces, and > > I have a lot of Session with many Songs using STEREO FILES > > INTERLEAVED.. > > Now I'm using LOGIC TDM with protools hardware, but when I open a old > > song I can't ear none Stereo Files. > > Usually I go into Audio Window, delete stereo files and Import Again > > answering "SPLIT" and then it's all right. But at the moment I have > > an old song (motu interface) using a STEREO INTERLEAVED FILES with > > many reagions, and I can't delete from Audio window this file, > > because I'd lost my cuts and reasons.. > > HOW CAN I IMPORT DIRECTLY THIS KIND OF FILES. > > Sorry for my BAD English. > > > > > > THANKS > > > > > > ANTONIO > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > __________________________________________________ D O T E A S Y - "Join the web hosting revolution!" http://www.doteasy.com

Jeff, I wish Logic would let us check more than two items to send midi clock to, however I make one of them my Studio 4 midi interface (Modem Port in the midi sync dialog) and all my rack gear on that interface receives it. For the other one I have to choose which soft synth needs it the most. It would be nice to be able to send to the IAC in general (IAC is the only thing I use OMS for). I run Reason through Sound Manager for monitoring (on the same machine, launch Reason before Logic) and it gets SPP fine. When I'm finished sequencing I export the midi file to Reason and render the audio, then export that to Logic. My outboard gear doesn't need SPP so I haven't checked that out really. Are you sending SPP to the interface in general or just one port? Are you using OMS? Is it blocking SPP? My Studio 4 can be configured with OMS to filter events. Then there's that box in the midi sync panel "Send SPP" Certainly a strange situation, I'll follow with interest. -- Barry Young > From: Jeff Rona <jrona@...> > Reply-To: logic-tdm@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 11:13:14 -0800 > To: logic group <logic-tdm@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [L-TDM] SPP from Logic > > > Hi. Is anyone using Logic with some external drum machine/sequencer? I am > trying to drive Reason on a second Mac from Logic (4.7.3). But something > has gone wrong (it used to work). > Logic is sending MIDI Clock fine, but not the Song Position Pointer (SPP). > If I enable a track on the port that the second Mac is on, the SPP will work > a few times then stop. If I uncheck then recheck the 'Prg' button, SPP will > resume, but briefly. Why why why??? > > I hope someone knows about this odd problem. I've run Reason on the same > Mac as Logic, and it works great. The problem with Rewire is that audio > stops when the sequencer is not in Play. Thus auditioning sounds is > difficult. Oh yes, it crashes a bit too often as well. > > > jr > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

The split file issue is with Digi rather than Emagic. You can import a standard midi file into Logic by dragging and dropping it onto an open arrange page. And I export midi files all the time to Reason. Have you had a problem?. -- Barry Young > From: Joris Vincken <jv@...> > Reply-To: logic-tdm@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 22:20:30 +0100 > To: logic-tdm@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [L-TDM] How can I Use STEREO INTERLEAVED FILES With LOGIC TDM? > > Would be great if Emagic could address the incompatiblities with different > systems in a future update. Importing non-native files in Logic TDM is a > pita. Also there is no way to change an old enviroment into a TDM one. Also > loading (I don't even dare to say saving) standard midi files. > > >> My advice would be to open the native session and bounce your tracks with >> the edits as split files, then import the them into the TDM session. >> -- >> >> Barry Young >> >> >>> From: antpatan <antpatan@...> >>> Reply-To: logic-tdm@yahoogroups.com >>> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 21:05:10 +0000 >>> To: logic-tdm@yahoogroups.com >>> Subject: [L-TDM] How can I Use STEREO INTERLEAVED FILES With LOGIC TDM? >>> >>> HI ! >>> Until few months ago, I used LOGIC with MOTU Interfaces, and >>> I have a lot of Session with many Songs using STEREO FILES >>> INTERLEAVED.. >>> Now I'm using LOGIC TDM with protools hardware, but when I open a old >>> song I can't ear none Stereo Files. >>> Usually I go into Audio Window, delete stereo files and Import Again >>> answering "SPLIT" and then it's all right. But at the moment I have >>> an old song (motu interface) using a STEREO INTERLEAVED FILES with >>> many reagions, and I can't delete from Audio window this file, >>> because I'd lost my cuts and reasons.. >>> HOW CAN I IMPORT DIRECTLY THIS KIND OF FILES. >>> Sorry for my BAD English. >>> >>> >>> THANKS >>> >>> >>> ANTONIO >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >> >> >> > > > > __________________________________________________ > D O T E A S Y - "Join the web hosting revolution!" > http://www.doteasy.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

> From: Pete Thomas [SMTP:pt@...] > > I thought I'd already mentioned, I have successfully run TC Powercore on > DTDM with Logic TDM. It does work no probs > So how do they compare? How many plug-ins can you get on a Powercore vs. the Mix Card? I assume Megaverb sounds the same on both. And, I'll add an email I posted to DAW-MAC regarding dumping Digi in favour of native and VST DSP cards. Curious as to other opinions on the subject from people here not on the daw-mac list. Lee, feel free to step in and demolish my argument with your pithy prose again :) == The Powercore has a PowerPC chip and four 100MHz Motorola 56362 chips. The MixFarm has six 56301 chips. PT HD has nine 56301 chips. According to Motorola's website, these chips are both part of the same family, and have the same MIPS values at the same clock speed. I haven't been able to get a direct comparison of power, but my guess is they're within about 20% of each other. I use Logic as a front end, composing on a native Dual 800, and mixing on a Mix system with 3 extra farms (and ESB for VST plugs). Since Logic uses both chips on the Dual system, I get no screen slow down when I start loading up on plugs, which used to be the biggest frustration with using native for me. I don't have any latency problems because I split my bass signal and monitor direct. I record drums in a studio with a full Pro Tools system (Logic front end), and then move the tracks back to native for editing and mixing. And I can easily play my Gigastudio instruments in realtime using Hammerfall cards on both ends. Based on my experiences with my native Dual 800 setup, it looks to me like using Waves native plug-ins for things like EQ and compression, and a PowerCore and UAD-1 card for the processor intensive stuff like reverb will work quite well, and cost around 25-50% of the Digi solution. I think Digi are going to get slammed like Avid did with the arrival of Final Cut Pro. I'm looking at putting together a system for home, and the price difference between the Digi stuff and the Powercore and UA card just makes the Digi stuff look totally overpriced. I'm using the Hammerfall with an ADI-8 pro converters. The quality of these converters us WAY better than a Digi 882|20, which sucks and is around the same price. RME has an article from some magazine review on their website that compares the quality to an Apogee AD8000. I was using an Apogee Rosetta before I switched, and I have noticed no drop in quality. And I need a bunch of ADAT litepipe I/O for feeding in my Gigastudio stuff. The solutions from Digi add up to a lot of $$, with a lot of extra AES and TDIF I/O that I don't care about and don't want to pay for. $1245 for a 16 channel ADAT bridge. Give me a break. The Hammerfall is under $600 for 24 channels. I don't care about Pro Tools software - I use Logic. And if I need to do audio post, there's always Nuendo, which will also support these new VST accelerator cards. I think it's almost to the point where I can dump Digi and still have the power I need to do the same level of work. I'm sure to guys mixing films who can move from $500,000 mixing consoles to a couple of big Pro Tools/Pro Control systems, Digi stuff looks like a bargain. But for project studio stuff, I think the fast new Macs and VST accelerator cards are looking like a very workable alternative. Throw in Firewire drives to replace SCSI, and things are looking good. /-

I, for one, greatly appreciate confirmation from the manufacturer, acquired by another manufacturer, and then relayed to the list. An abundance of positivity is certainly nothing to be offended by. G At 8:26 PM +0000 2002.01.31, Pete Thomas wrote: >I thought I'd already mentioned, I have successfully run TC Powercore on >DTDM with Logic TDM. It does work no probs > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Marc Schlaile" <ms_lists@...> > > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 4:43 PM > > Subject: [L-TDM] powercore and protools >> > > > peter asked the other day if the powercore and protools can run at the >> same >> > time. i've just got a reply from TC: yes they can (they haven't tried >> PT|HD >> > yet). _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

> From: Joeri Vankeirsbilck <joeri@...> > Organization: Belway Productions > For the new subscribers: every couple of months, this list buys > something in group. The advantage is that we get huge price reductions > that way. Huh? __ Barry Young

--- In logic-tdm@y..., "Pete Thomas" <pt@p...> wrote: > I thought I'd already mentioned, I have successfully run TC Powercore on > DTDM with Logic TDM. It does work no probs > > With some reservations (eg why would anyone want to do this?) Uh, how about so you can run 4 times as many VST instruments (I'm guessing) through ESB as you could just using the mac's cpu? -malcolm

> > >>For the new subscribers: every couple of months, this list buys >>something in group. The advantage is that we get huge price reductions >>that way. >> >Huh? > What wasn't clear? -- Joeri Vankeirsbilck joeri@... Belway Productions - http://www.belway.com List-admin Logic-users/SoundD*ver-users/Logic-TDM

--- In logic-tdm@y..., Barry Young/Young Creative <ycmail@s...> wrote: > There is an update of Waves site that cuts that hog in half. I've got the > TDM Gold bundle so it's a moot point with me. Me too, but you mean you don't use any effects on the native side of ESB? A lot of extra power there. thanks for the upgrade tip, but I'm already on 3.2 - i believe that's the latest - and it's a hog, still. I can get 2 TC reverbs to one Waves -Malcolm

My wimpy CPU gets used up by soft synths. I have Mix cubed so I'm not usually hurting there. Here's the stuff from Waves' site about the update for RenVerb native: In an effort to improve native performance of our plug-ins Waves welcomes its native MAC users to download this new version of Renaissance Reverb, offering improved efficiency by 30%. The optimization is non Altivec so it is good for MAC G3 or any Power PC processor. This version works in TDM without increase performance though using as RTAS will enhance performance. Just download and replace the current RVerb 3.2 with the downloaded RVerb 3.2.1 -- Barry Young > From: mpmusicny <mpmusicny@...> > Reply-To: logic-tdm@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 21:39:59 +0000 > To: logic-tdm@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [L-TDM] Re: LAP/ESB/TDM choking-tdm -10011 errors? > > --- In logic-tdm@y..., Barry Young/Young Creative <ycmail@s...> > wrote: >> There is an update of Waves site that cuts that hog in half. I've > got the >> TDM Gold bundle so it's a moot point with me. > > Me too, but you mean you don't use any effects on the native side > of ESB? A lot of extra power there. > > thanks for the upgrade tip, but I'm already on 3.2 - i believe that's > the latest - and it's a hog, still. I can get 2 TC reverbs to one > Waves > > -Malcolm > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

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--- In logic-tdm@y..., Barry Young/Young Creative <ycmail@s...> wrote: > My wimpy CPU gets used up by soft synths. I have Mix cubed so I'm not > usually hurting there. Barry, thanks a lot for the info on renverb - I'll check it out. you may want to think about using USB more. The timing of things like Battery, and ESX is so spot on, it's made a huge difference for me. Even if standalone DirectConnect versions are available, you're much better off from a timing point of view going with the VST version, not to mention saving all the settings inside the song. And of course, many soft synths aren't even ported to anything outside of VST. It's a thing of beauty. thanks again Malcolm

unsubscribe > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

This is not correct the new PT|HD systems have 9 larger 100Mhz 56362 chips on each card the older Mix systems have 6 80Mhz 56301 on each card. RG > > > The Powercore has a PowerPC chip and four 100MHz Motorola 56362 chips. The > MixFarm has six 56301 chips. PT HD has nine 56301 chips. According to > Motorola's website, these chips are both part of the same family, and have > the same MIPS values at the same clock speed. I haven't been able to get a > direct comparison of power, but my guess is they're within about 20% of each > other

"I'm running a Dual 800, now obsolete, of course Mix cubed, " " " " 9.2.1 Logic 4.81 DAE 5.1.1cs 1 gig ram cinema display with second 17" monitor running at 256 colors so that it looks like a cheap comic book Michael Brook" oh my ! I get about 8-10 EXS via ESB and over 10 audio tracks in DAE before it sometimes happens now and this on a 9600-g3-450 . So you must try various system extensions, various DAE versions, trash preferences and such, because this is injust ! I am whining about having to buy a dual 800 and here you come :-) Building a new autoload and trashing logics prefs helps a lot ! keeping the autoload as small as possible helps too....still there are guys even running the dual 800 with LAM with DAE-TDM and dual processing ON ! I think DAE 5.1.1 was the case there. DAE going -6042 is basically a direct connect issue from what I was told by someone who could know. ciao Hanno

maybe we come from 2 different planets, but if you look below isnt that a contradiction in itself ? From: "Joris Vincken" <jv@...> Subject: Re: Direct I/O Ofcourse ESB needs direct connect, but I don't see the problem with that. Joris Vincken said > Direct I/O is a big dissaster. As far as I know there is no way to get a > good performance out of it. If you have a mix system the best thing is to > get the ESB plug-in. That way you can combine TDM and Native. > > hanno said > Ha ! but ESB needs direct connect !! so what now ? :-) > > Im close to going back to yanking my AW8 in the slot thats occupied > by my vintage dsp farm and forget about ESB !! it worked so > well....... > > ciao > Hanno

I have the same thing : in PT the interface is found right away in LAM not ! I always have to go to the digihardware setup and click recalibrate....doh ciao Hanno Jonathan Bepler says: Here's a small but annoying problem. When I start logic (with mix plus in g4) there will be no sound output through 888 until I tweak some setting in Digi control panel (eg change sample rate, then change back, etc..). Then there is that tiny pop and it's live. anyone seen this?

No it isn't, like Barry Young said Direct connect and Direct I./O are two completly different things. It's easy to mix them up because of the simular names. Direct connect is for routing native signals (like softsynths etc.) into the TDM enviroment. Direct I/O is for sending native stuff directly to the Digi hardware outputs, without using TDM. Then you have a whole bunch of DSP chips sitting on your farms just doing nothing. Hope this clears things up, Joris Vincken > maybe we come from 2 different planets, but if you look below isnt > that a contradiction in itself ? > > Ofcourse ESB needs direct connect, but I don't see the problem with that. > > Joris Vincken said > > Direct I/O is a big dissaster. As far as I know there is no way to get a > > good performance out of it. If you have a mix system the best thing is to > > get the ESB plug-in. That way you can combine TDM and Native. > > > > > hanno said > > Ha ! but ESB needs direct connect !! so what now ? :-) > > > > Im close to going back to yanking my AW8 in the slot thats occupied > > by my vintage dsp farm and forget about ESB !! it worked so > > well....... > > > > ciao > > Hanno > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > __________________________________________________ D O T E A S Y - "Join the web hosting revolution!" http://www.doteasy.com

Well... I have no meaning to argue whith you, but I think it can't be "the same" between using Native + PowerCore(UAD) and the TDM sysytem. at first, don't you feel the performance is getting down on native even the clocks going up? I think the top end is 400MHz, and it has a curved line between the clock & performance. It can't be true if you're trying to say that G4/733 has the twice performance of G3/350, (I think you can't get twice even you use 867...) and that means there's a quite hard future even if MAC goes on GHz class. Next, I' have a suspect on native, that the sound quality goes down and down as you add a track or plugin (softsynths). This happens on TDM the same, but it doesn't go that bad like on native. I think this thing happens because there is a line that a computer can't calculate, and the native platform runs on the same CPU whith the OS, and that seems not to be good. DSPs are sure calculating, and has the same problem of course, but it works good independent from the other stuff and its designed specialy for calculating the audio things. Concretly, it ruins the sounds depth, and the naturality on the high, and this word might not be good, but it goes Low-Fi ed. I know the Hammerfall9652 is s good card, and has a great AD/DA, but I can't help saying that "I won't" use a AD in a machine (MAC) directly, that recives huge electromagnetic-waves. So, the point is, if you don't want to use TDM and you don't like to pay because of its cost performance, thats not a bad choice, but you'll have to think of the risk if your going to use that system for work. Try bouncing on native between TDM based sound and you'll find what I'm trying to say with the 2mixed file you get, and look how much latency you have using TC Powercore. If you don't feel anything, that'll be OK, I guess. Eiji - I can't beat the "bus traffic error" so I think I have to buy the dual head Graphic Card like you guys say...(with a hard sigh) ;-< > I use Logic as a front end, composing on a native Dual 800, and mixing on a > Mix system with 3 extra farms (and ESB for VST plugs). Since Logic uses > both chips on the Dual system, I get no screen slow down when I start > loading up on plugs, which used to be the biggest frustration with using > native for me. I don't have any latency problems because I split my bass > signal and monitor direct. I record drums in a studio with a full Pro Tools > system (Logic front end), and then move the tracks back to native for > editing and mixing. And I can easily play my Gigastudio instruments in > realtime using Hammerfall cards on both ends. Based on my experiences with > my native Dual 800 setup, it looks to me like using Waves native plug-ins > for things like EQ and compression, and a PowerCore and UAD-1 card for the > processor intensive stuff like reverb will work quite well, and cost around > 25-50% of the Digi solution. > > I think Digi are going to get slammed like Avid did with the arrival of > Final Cut Pro. I'm looking at putting together a system for home, and the > price difference between the Digi stuff and the Powercore and UA card just > makes the Digi stuff look totally overpriced. I'm using the Hammerfall with > an ADI-8 pro converters. The quality of these converters us WAY better than > a Digi 882|20, which sucks and is around the same price. RME has an article > from some magazine review on their website that compares the quality to an > Apogee AD8000. I was using an Apogee Rosetta before I switched, and I have > noticed no drop in quality. And I need a bunch of ADAT litepipe I/O for > feeding in my Gigastudio stuff. The solutions from Digi add up to a lot of > $$, with a lot of extra AES and TDIF I/O that I don't care about and don't > want to pay for. $1245 for a 16 channel ADAT bridge. Give me a break. The > Hammerfall is under $600 for 24 channels. > > I don't care about Pro Tools software - I use Logic. And if I need to do > audio post, there's always Nuendo, which will also support these new VST > accelerator cards. I think it's almost to the point where I can dump Digi > and still have the power I need to do the same level of work. I'm sure to > guys mixing films who can move from $500,000 mixing consoles to a couple of > big Pro Tools/Pro Control systems, Digi stuff looks like a bargain. But for > project studio stuff, I think the fast new Macs and VST accelerator cards > are looking like a very workable alternative. Throw in Firewire drives to > replace SCSI, and things are looking good. > > /- > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

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> > Yep... that's the one. Sheesh, Michael, looking at your system, > makes me think it's not processor related. (I'm on a B&W G3 > 350... so I thought it could be my processor not keeping up.) And > I never saw it until I installed ESB and started using Direct TDM > (obviously... the error says it's Direct TDM). As I understand it > (which could be wrong), the ESB plug is running on the Digi > hardware (not the processor)... but where does Direct TDM run? > Inside Logic? > > Hmmm.... > -Brian Just a quick thought about this problem. You don't happen to have AV checked in the Audio Drivers as well as DTDM do you? You must have one or the other selected but not both. This tripped me up once. Phil Buckle.

> >Next, I' have a suspect on native, that the sound quality goes down >and down as you add a track or plugin (softsynths). This happens on >TDM the same, but it doesn't go that bad like on native. I think this thing >happens because there is a line that a computer can't calculate, and the >native >platform runs on the same CPU whith the OS, and that seems not to be >good. DSPs are sure calculating, and has the same problem of course, >but it works good independent from the other stuff and its designed >specialy for calculating the audio things. Hmmm...apparently logic's native mixer uses 32 bit floating DSP, which as I understand the world is a good deal better than the 24 bit fixed of protools, so should sound *better*, not worse. I've not tried an a/b, but to me the stuff I add in via ESB sounds every bit as good as the 'real' TDM tracks. One thing's for sure though - a sample played from ESX-24/ESB definitely sounds better than the same sample played from Samplecell II TDM, why I don't know. In fact while we're on that topic, if anyone fancies a bit of fun, load a 5 second stereo mix onto a protools track and also into samplecell, align the levels to be the same and compare...Samplecell sounds *a lot* worse to my ears. Maybe it's the onboard SRC. j Jon Cotton "Just give me a bloody 4 track and an acoustic guitar" Gramophone http://www.darkgramophone.co.uk Artisan Audio / Artisan Records http://www.artisan-audio.co.uk/

Well, it's Feb 1st 2002 and we're still waiting for a software upgrade which was originally promised for 9/01. Meanwhile if you've been paying attention DP is blowing the doors off of Logic with 3.1, full OMF import export (including automation info) and incredible time compression/expansion features (change the global tempo and the audio files are compressed or expanded to fit). I don't think I can continue to be hamstrung by Logic's horrible useless automation or lack of many other features very much longer. You guys at Emagic better get 5.0 together (and make it good) or I'm taking the crossgrade route. Also the fact that 5.0 is rumored to have a USB dongle is really troubling as it will make me either pull a card out of my G3 for a USB card which may or may not be compatible or buy a new computer (which I may be doing anyway). as it stands now the program is full of useless features (like the insane and hard to deal with environment) and very light on useful ones.