rob@... writes: >A couple of months ago, there was a guy on the DUC who was looking >for volunteers to do a "blind taste test" of Logic vs. PT. (I've just >been searching back through the archives for the post, but I can't >find it) He was responding to a lot of this kind of talk about the >sound quality of both programs' mix busses. Anyway, I was interested >to hear for myself so I volunteered. He had prepared five different >mixes of the same material (basic rhythm secion tracks); one in >Logic, one in PT, one in Logic with faders at unity and mixed on an >SSL, one in PT the same way, and one on 2" analog tape mixed on the >SSL. The files were given nonsense names to conceal their identities. > >After downloading and listening exhaustively to all the mixes, the >only one I could peg for sure was the analog tape one - there's no >mistaking that "warmth", especially on the drums. As for the other >four mixes, I honestly couldn't tell them apart. I'm not saying I >have the world's best ears, but I like to think they're pretty good; >and if someone else can hear a difference that I can't, it's too >insignificant for me to care about! > >Interestingly, I never heard back from the guy about the final >results of his test, and I can't seem to find any of the earlier >posts pertaining to it. Did anyone else on this board participate? I also participated in that test. I also could instantly pick out the one from analog tape right away. The other versions were sonically identical (the ones that were different variations of PT and Logic). However, the source material he provided was just bed tracks - mostly just bass and drums. Not very good testing material. Does somebody else want to try again? You just have to recreate a simple mix in Logic and PT - faders and pan need to be identical. You can even use the same TDM plugins with the same settings. Bounce both to disc and offer them up for listening test. Something as short as 30 seconds so it's only 5MB to download. Make sure to use the same dithering plugin if originating at 24bits (destination should naturally be 16bits @ 44.1Khz). f-erenc szabo, smarty pants Z+E+R+O+B+E+A+T "NOW POWERED BY THE MIRACLE OF THE TRANSISTOR!"

rob@... writes: >How do you post under your real name? It seems to me >I had set it up that way once, but for some reason I'm >showing up now as my profile name instead. Just sign your name below every post. You can also include some stupid extra stuff, like I do. Perhaps your email client software will even allow you to include a pre-written signature at the bottom of every email you send? It sure works for FirstClass, Eudora, Outlook Express and Communicator (the only email software I've ever heard of). f-erenc szabo, smarty pants Z+E+R+O+B+E+A+T "NOW POWERED BY THE MIRACLE OF THE TRANSISTOR!"

--- In logic-tdm@y..., Jon Hiseman <jh@t...> wrote: > OK so you spotted our Achilles heel...... > I did find the change to PT a problem as long as I kept banging on about how > logic would do it.....but after a while I was overtaken but the awesome > stability and the feeling of space and time I personally got back into my > life.....and the clincher was when I had to go back to overdub and remix a > logic session.......I felt I was riding a greased tyre across the rapids. > EMAGIC - do your homework before starting new Upgrades!!! > Jon Hiseman > Temple Music > > Hi Jon, seems you have had very similar (sad) experience with Logic (more and more functions - continuously reduced stability/usability). I am glad to hear that you found a way to overcome this "monopoly" like situation. I think we have a very similar kind of workflow in our studios - music is still mostly handmade after a (midi) pre- production phase. We are definitely planning to migrate to PT these days. Final decision will be done by administration in mid January. Jon, how long roughly was your transition phase from LA to PT(+LA)? Thanks Art Endroes Blue Note P.S.: I am so amazed to read in this forum that many musicians/engineers are still not concerned/upset with the obviously decreasing stability. I think no hardware company (SSL, Studer, Lexicon etc.) ever experienced such a forgiving user base.

I used to mix compressed drum signal back in with unconpressed when working with real desks. never tried it when mixing virtually, I'm glad you brought this up, I'd almost forgotten what a useful technique it is. I learnt it from an engineer much better than myself. I either bussed the snare and bass drum (mono) or the whole kit stereo, then compressed the hell out of them and then gradually mixed back into the uncompressed stereo kit. best regards Pete Thomas www.petethomas.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Najar <pnajar@...> To: <logic-tdm@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 11:31 PM Subject: Re: [L-TDM] Two questions... > hamptonmustdie on 27/12/01 5:52 AM, hamptonmustdie at rob@... > wrote: > > > Also, can anyone give me some tips on mixing drums in Logic/TDM? I've > > done a fair bit in my old analog days, but it gets a bit trickier in > > th "virtual" world. My main concern is when I'm bussing the whole > > kit out to be compressed and mixed back in, how do I keep it from > > phasing with the original signals? As well, any pointers on how to > > get big, punchy rock drums would be appreciated. > > I'm assuming you're doing individual compression/ eq on various drums and > then bussing them all to a group for overall compression? There should be no > phasing unless you are still hearing the unbussed drum tracks. For this kind > of thing I have never heard of anyone still wanting to hear the uncompressed > signal as well. Just make sure this is not happening and you'll be sorted > for the phasing (not the delays incurred). > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >

-- Art Endroes wrote > Jon, how long roughly was your transition phase from LA to PT(+LA)? Difficult to answer....we got onto PT when we were copying a lot of 24Track analog into it for editing then spinning back out for mixing.... I always liked the PT editing features......they were designed for audio and it seemed to me that Logic was designed for midi and that audio was lazily bolted on... after a while we tried running the two progs in sync on one CPU and it worked.. up to a point......I actually did some rather complicated mixes like that but it was at best only a good try. So we got into midi/audio tracklaying in logic, importing into PT and mixing there. As a result we bought first the Mackie then Procontrol as soon as they were released. With a lot of editing/mixing experience the transition to PT for tracklaying easy. So we did it gradually but by initiating much of our own output we could change at our own pace. But I know that you can get clever in any good environment........a week of enforced logic and I miss some of its facilities when back in PT...I love some of the Logic only plugins...I've taken audio back from PT to logic for processing several times...you can't win. Once we had such a stable environment I decided we should stop offering 24 Tk Analog facilities....we got rid of the desk(a wonderful 48-ch raindirk "symphony") and had the same manufacturer make us 32ch. mic-pre/Ph-power/DI pad/Phase reverse/5 way parametric EQ/ etc in a twelve-U rack(these are now commercially available.) Same manufacturer sold us a 12(24)in, 8(16)out monitor matrix(any of 12 stereo sources to any of 8 stereo outputs(amps) in any mix for our loudspeaker monitoring. On top of that we run 6 separate stereo cue systems right out of PT(or logic)via the 888's and amps down to the studio floor. Total refurbish time(beautiful to beautiful) 12 weeks but we were recording again in 9 days by having all the new cabling made out of house and then pulling all the old cables out of the traps and replacing. Biggest job was installing the new 48x12(576 balanced lines) row bantam patchbay that allows you to overplug anything to anything and which is gratis on big desks. Jon Hiseman Temple Music

A couple of months ago, there was a guy on the DUC who was looking for volunteers to do a "blind taste test" of Logic vs. PT. (I've just been searching back through the archives for the post, but I can't find it) He was responding to a lot of this kind of talk about the sound quality of both programs' mix busses. Anyway, I was interested to hear for myself so I volunteered. He had prepared five different mixes of the same material (basic rhythm secion tracks); one in Logic, one in PT, one in Logic with faders at unity and mixed on an SSL, one in PT the same way, and one on 2" analog tape mixed on the SSL. The files were given nonsense names to conceal their identities. After downloading and listening exhaustively to all the mixes, the only one I could peg for sure was the analog tape one - there's no mistaking that "warmth", especially on the drums. As for the other four mixes, I honestly couldn't tell them apart. I'm not saying I have the world's best ears, but I like to think they're pretty good; and if someone else can hear a difference that I can't, it's too insignificant for me to care about! Interestingly, I never heard back from the guy about the final results of his test, and I can't seem to find any of the earlier posts pertaining to it. Did anyone else on this board participate? yes I did.....he wrote me later that he had mucked up the files and sent some doubles b< mistake...so it was never valid....anyway I heard some slight differences ....not as dramatic as i thought.... with all the code warriors telling us : "your imagination has gone haywire! the DAE engine in LA and in PT is the same ! " why do I hear differences? I would love not to hear them ! Im not searching for differences.....but it happens...what can I do? ciAO HANNO

Wed, 26 Dec 2001 16:35:35 +0100 Hanno di Rosa <dirosa@...> at logic-tdm@yahoogroups.com wrote: > hmmmmm just mixed a tune in 4.8.1 and in PT 5.2...same audio > files...clearly different mix : I hear a big difference too : > PT sounds more airy but has a much muddier-undefined bass > LAP using DAE sounds more punchy , bass super tight, but not as wide > and ambient. Well ! My feelings EXACTLY. The difference is there. One question though... You DID use the same TDM plugs,TDM routings,TDM settings and TDM everything ? There's also more: A while ago we did a couple of rough tests on an Audiomedia III running PT LE and LAP 4.7.3 on a G4 800MP. We recorded some guitar, vocal and bass parts through Audiomedia into PT and then into LAP. We then listened to all files at random via a QuickTime player and MacAV. Files recorded by PT sounded more open, the highs had more air, bass was a bit weak. The LAP files sounded more dense, punchy, the highs were a bit subdued therefore less airy but rather appeared as "folded" ?!. We had no problems classifying the originating app in a blind test. Audiomedia and TDM, DIO and DAE, LAP mixer plug and PT mixer plug: they all sound different. Can we use it to our advantage ? Like, for e.g..: track in LAP but mix in PT ;-) Or: what's the best way to set up a home-to-studio project so that your home-made files have the best sound for a subsequent studio mix ? For a better 21st century, vote peace. Kokos

On 12/23/01 11:56 AM, "logic-tdm@yahoogroups.com" <logic-tdm@yahoogroups.com> wrote: > Subject: DiO and 2x 888 > > Hi All, > > I am testing a setup for a studio with no mixer. > In PT I can sent stuff to the outputs of 2x 888. > I use nr.1 for the normal input/outout routing and use the second one as a > FX loop for TC Fireworx and the M6000. > When I try this in Logic (4.7.3) with DiO .. I just can't find the trick to > sent stuff to the second 888! Any suggestions? > I think it's something simple... but I just don't see it. > > Renger Trash the Digisetup, make sure the hardware setup accurately reflects the presence of (2) 888's (and the right cards they are attached to), and in the environment window create new audio objects for your autoload, while remembering that Logic, unlike ProTools, calls the 2nd interface 9-10, 11-12 etc. instead of #2 interface 1-2, 3-4 etc. I've become particularly fond of ProTools I/O setup which lets me name I/O pairs according to the device (Lexicon, Eventide). If there's a way to do this in Logic, please tell me. Best, Nathaniel Reichman

Anyone know if I can use the PTIII system on a PC? If not, how about just the card using a DiO driver. All of the above with LAP of course....TA

LAP does not support TDM on a PC. PTIII does not work on a PC anyway (as far as I know). Joris Vincken > Anyone know if I can use the PTIII system on a PC? > If not, how about just the card using a DiO driver. > All of the above with LAP of course....TA __________________________________________________ D O T E A S Y - "Join the web hosting revolution!" http://www.doteasy.com

--- In logic-tdm@y..., "logarythmic" <ross.mcd@z...> wrote: > Anyone know if I can use the PTIII system on a PC? > If not, how about just the card using a DiO driver. > All of the above with LAP of course....TA dont try that man. my mac had a bad hardware crash so i was courious to put all my stuf on a pc. nothing worked really. even if it worked you will still mis a lots of plugins and other stuff becouse they dont egzist for pc. regards ilir osmani

Hello, Iam currently operating a 9600/ G 3 400 MAC with LAP 4.8.1 and PRO TOOLS 5.1 MIX Plus and SAMPLE CELL TDM. Now I have bought a second hand G 4 533 Double Processor and are going to install everything on the new machine next week. Unfortunately I now hear a lot of horrifying stories about this particular G 4 in combination with my PT/LAP set up ! Does anybody out there have experience with this special set up or can advice me on how to install & operate ? Thanks for help HARRY GUTOWSKI GuM audio.media

its simple but you have to lose a processor. Just remove the dual processor directory in your extensions folder and it will work fine -----Original Message----- From: HGutowski@... [mailto:HGutowski@...] Sent: 28 December 2001 13:22 To: logic-tdm@yahoogroups.com Subject: [L-TDM] Apple G4 533 DOUBLE PROCESSOR Hello, Iam currently operating a 9600/ G 3 400 MAC with LAP 4.8.1 and PRO TOOLS 5.1 MIX Plus and SAMPLE CELL TDM. Now I have bought a second hand G 4 533 Double Processor and are going to install everything on the new machine next week. Unfortunately I now hear a lot of horrifying stories about this particular G 4 in combination with my PT/LAP set up ! Does anybody out there have experience with this special set up or can advice me on how to install & operate ? Thanks for help HARRY GUTOWSKI GuM audio.media Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Who can tell me what extra performance is brought using the Altivec engine i.e. A G3/450 vs. a G4/450? Just curious. -- Thanks, Barry Young Young Creative > Hello, > > Iam currently operating a 9600/ G 3 400 MAC with LAP 4.8.1 and PRO > TOOLS 5.1 MIX Plus and SAMPLE CELL TDM. > Now I have bought a second hand G 4 533 Double Processor and are going > to install everything on the new machine next week. > Unfortunately I now hear a lot of horrifying stories about this > particular G 4 in combination with my PT/LAP set up ! > Does anybody out there have experience with this special set up or can > advice me on how to install & operate ? > Thanks for help > HARRY GUTOWSKI > GuM audio.media > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

I've been running a dual 533 with LAP/PT for about a year now; even with the second processor disabled, it's still a nice fast box! It's also WAY more stable than my old 9600/G3 400, which I was never able to get working totally smoothly. Rob DeBoer --- In logic-tdm@y..., HGutowski@t... wrote: > Hello, > > Iam currently operating a 9600/ G 3 400 MAC with LAP 4.8.1 and PRO > TOOLS 5.1 MIX Plus and SAMPLE CELL TDM. > Now I have bought a second hand G 4 533 Double Processor and are going > to install everything on the new machine next week. > Unfortunately I now hear a lot of horrifying stories about this > particular G 4 in combination with my PT/LAP set up ! > Does anybody out there have experience with this special set up or can > advice me on how to install & operate ? > Thanks for help > HARRY GUTOWSKI > GuM audio.media

Hi, Anybody know of a "tuner plug-in"? I run logic on a PT hardware on Mac G4. Best Regards Stig Christensen visit http://www.sc-musik.dk/

Well actually Paul The mixing of the Compressed and uncompressed signal is a technique used a lot in the so called "Big Mixers World" I have been doing just that with drums and they definitely have a thicker more punchy and all around fat drum sound. One thing they talked about is setting the release time to correspond with the tempo of the track. 124 bpm is around 129ms as a 16th note release time. So the pumping is moving with the track. There is a book that has interviews with about 7 top Mixers and they talked about this technique quite a lot. I have also heard about this being used for bass, and even vocals. One of our other members Charles Spencer and I messed with the drum thing all the time. (As well as timing reverb decay times to the tempo as well which was talked about in the book I mentioned earlier.) Be Well, Jay-J | Moulton Studios jayj@... www.moultonstudios.com 415.929.9377 phone 415.929.9378 fax --------------------------------------------------- "music is the shorthand of emotion" - leo tolstoy ---------------------------------------------------

Hi- I'm switching my system over to a G4, and things are going pretty well so far. Except I just tried installing ESB and whenever I load Logic 4.8x, I get the message "Direct TDM -Can't find Stream Manager (10002)" I turn on DTDM in the Audio Hardware window, but can't seem to get it to work on any mixer objects. Any ideas? I'm using G-4 400 AGP Magma exp chassis D-24 card one Mix farm 3 DSP farms 1 Adat Bridge 1 888/16 (digital only) Thanks- Dan H. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com

Have you installed Digi´s Direct Connect including all of its files? ESB needs them. Peter http://www.merlinsound.de ----- Original Message ----- From: "rhoumschnick" <rhoumschnick@...> To: <logic-tdm@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 11:50 PM Subject: [L-TDM] ESB and DTDM > Hi- > I'm switching my system over to a G4, and things are > going pretty well so far. Except I just tried > installing ESB and whenever I load Logic 4.8x, I get > the message "Direct TDM -Can't find Stream Manager > (10002)" I turn on DTDM in the Audio Hardware window, > but can't seem to get it to work on any mixer objects. > Any ideas?

rhoumschnick@... writes: >I just tried >installing ESB and whenever I load Logic 4.8x, I get >the message "Direct TDM -Can't find Stream Manager >(10002)" I turn on DTDM in the Audio Hardware window, >but can't seem to get it to work on any mixer objects. Have you installed the Direct Connect plugin (available free from Digidesign)? f-erenc szabo, smarty pants Z+E+R+O+B+E+A+T "NOW POWERED BY THE MIRACLE OF THE TRANSISTOR!"

>Hi, >Anybody know of a "tuner plug-in"? I run logic on a PT hardware on Mac G4. yes, there is a plug 'tun-a' by steinberg, I believe. it is very old and might not run on the new farms. brio

Bombfactory makes one, not sure if it's shipping yet It is part of the BombFactory essentials pack RG Stig Christensen wrote: > Hi, > Anybody know of a "tuner plug-in"? I run logic on a PT hardware on Mac G4. > > Best Regards > Stig Christensen > visit http://www.sc-musik.dk/ > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>Have you installed Digi´s Direct Connect including >all of its files? >ESB needs them. Oops- I didn't realize that is isn't automatically loaded! THANKS -and that ESB is pretty cool- Now I've got to get EXS-24! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com

Unless I'm misunderstanding the question, you can do this in Logic. Go to the Audio Window and under Options choose >Audio Configuration. In the Audio Configuration window choose I/O labels from the View menu. From there you can name any of ins, outs, aux's or busses. Hope this helps, Chris Crofford >I've become particularly fond of ProTools I/O setup which lets me name I/O >pairs according to the device (Lexicon, Eventide). If there's a way to do >this in Logic, please tell me. > > >Best, > >Nathaniel Reichman > --

Well, I can route to the 2nd 888 in ProTools and also in Logic when working with DAE, but it doesn't work in DiO! Unless someone here on the list knows the trick.... There where a few suggestions here the last days, but non of them works. renger > Unless I'm misunderstanding the question, you can do this in Logic. > Go to the Audio Window and under Options choose >Audio Configuration. > In the Audio Configuration window choose I/O labels from the View > menu. From there you can name any of ins, outs, aux's or busses.