Greg did you do any tweaks to get PT to work with 10.3.9? Mine was very unstable although I reverted to the orthodox 10.3.4 and QT 6.5.2 simultaneously under the gun of being in the middle of a project. The other thing for our friend Steve I forgot to mention is on my system PT MIX( os 10.3.4, Logic 7.x) Logic does not seem to support 48k audio and stops passing audio when say a rex file or apple loop is introduced on a coreaudio track. A total headscratcher IMO. MATT --

Hi Matt I used PT 6.4.2 with Logic 7.1.1 on 10.3.9 without many issues - just the usual bugginess that we now expect as "normal", but otherwise stable as can be. I read your thread, and I think our new friend will be well on his way. i can't imagine how anyone builds a new environment from scratch - I stilldon't really get how anyone could make one - mine was inherited from a producer I do a lot of work with, and now I use it as my own. As far as 48k - I never use it, so I can't say much about that. Greg On Jul 31, 2007, at 7:50 PM, skylabfilmpop wrote: > Greg did you do any tweaks to get PT to work with 10.3.9? Mine was very > unstable although I reverted to the orthodox 10.3.4 and QT 6.5.2 > simultaneously under the gun of being in the middle of a project. The > other > thing for our friend Steve I forgot to mention is on my system PT > MIX( os > 10.3.4, Logic 7.x) Logic does not seem to support 48k audio and stops > passing audio when say a rex file or apple loop is introduced on a > coreaudio > track. A total headscratcher IMO. > > MATT > -- > > > > >

> It's a HUGE rewrite of the DAE, which entails a HUGE > rewrite of Logic's DAE support. Who will give me 2:1 odds that it won't happen? Jim

Thanks for diving in folks! I ran the setup assistant again, and disabled Core Audio, then brought up a new project with the DTDM-DAE template but still no luck. I did run into the environments while trying to get up and running today, but found that pretty confusing.. and it sounds like it's not just me, which is a relief. I just copied all of your comments, and I'm going to try each of them, and see where it gets me. Matt, I may have to hit you up some more about the environments. I'm totally new to Logic, and it's pretty overwhelming. Thanks to all of you who are helping me! Stephen

I think it took me 2 weeks to pass signal! Like a lot of things with logic, the setup assistant is bunk. It likely doesent have the ESB Paths enabled. Read the environment chapter, GOOGLE Protools/Logic environment, check out the logic setup info on the digidesign site and report back. MATT --

I've found this on spymac.com: 1. Logic Express is being discontinued and the new Garageband 4 is going to take it's place. 2. Logic 8 Pro now with Integrated DSP hardware support - (Eg Pro Tools) 3. Logic 8 Pro EXS sampler completely rewritten, and its going to be bundled with a 24 bit 30 Gigabyte library. (Kontakt Killer at last!) 3. Logic 8 Pro - Resolution independence and touch screen. (huh?) 4. Logic 8 Pro - 4 New synths (all with ability to combine)- bringing total of virtual instruments to over 10. It will be true??

In Logic 18 pro you will be able to program the spaceshuttle and be able to access Arthur Fiedlers brain as it is bundled with it. It still won¹t have independent pans on stereo objects, 200 of its 400 features won¹t work, half of those will have bugs that come up every third Tuesday, or if the now self aware mac doesn¹t like your music. -- !!

Shocking rumor: there will be an entire digest of this list or the LUG sometime between now and next January that *doesn't* have a single post containing totally groundless hype about the next update to Logic. I know it's hard to believe, but I read it on Macwanker.com, and so far they've never been wrong. Nick Batzdorf, editor/publisher Virtual Instruments Magazine www.Virtualinstrumentsmag.com 1-877 VImagzn (846-2496) +1818/905-9101, cell 590-9101

Hey I just checked, that¹s not a real website!! --

I have a session I just got from a client. It's the only session I have with this problem, all my other sessions are working fine. If I'm in the arrange window and hit play, it stops after about 1 second. if I close the arrange window, and say, have the audio window open, or any of the Not Audio related environments like clicks and ports and hit play. The song plays fine. It only does not play if any arrange or audio mixer windows are open. It also stops playing if I resize any windows while it's playing. Like I said. Other sessions I'm opening work fine. This is the only one. suggestions?

Hi, I replaced my Digi interface with a Rosetta 800 and Rosetta 200 combi, connecting directly to my PT-HD2 set with X-HD cards. I compose in Logic, mix in PT because of the ADC so I work on both platforms. The Rosetta 800 is the primary interface, showing up at 1-8 on PT, and the Rosetta 200 my secondary interface, on 9-10. However, I want to use the R200 for my main stereo in and out. I set them up this way because I'll use the R800 mainly for hardware inserts and (when working in PT) delay compensation will work (with added manual delay) without nudging. On 9-10 (PT sees this as an all-digital path) delay compensation requires nudging. In Pro Tools, there's the I/O page in which I made labels and routings so that my tracks by default go to the R200 (which is in fact on 9-10). So no problem there, every session I open now nows that the stereo out bus needs to go to the R200. But: when I switch to Logic, the hardware settings are preserved, but not the I/O settings. By defailt, all tracks go to 1-2, which is 1-2 on the Rosetta 200. Is there something equivalent to the I/O page in Logic which I can use to assign my 'stereo out' path by default to 9-10? I could make an Autoload with every track assigned to 9-10 but that's not very elegant and also would not help when opening older songs. Or should I switch the interfaces (R200 primary, R800 on expansion)? If I do that, will the R800 show up on 3-10 or on 9-16? The first I could live with (only 9-10 requiring nudgin for ADC), the latter not. Tia, Ivo

I think if you switch cables the 200 will show up as 1-2 and the 800 as 9-16 --

Posted by: "Bob DeMaa" bobdemaa@mac.com bmdps Thu Aug 2, 2007 2:02 pm (PST) > I have a session I just got from a client. It's the only session I > have with this problem, all my other sessions are working fine. > > If I'm in the arrange window and hit play, it stops after about 1 > second. if I close the arrange window, and say, have the audio window > open, or any of the Not Audio related environments like clicks and > ports and hit play. The song plays fine. It only does not play if any > arrange or audio mixer windows are open. It also stops playing if I > resize any windows while it's playing. > > Like I said. Other sessions I'm opening work fine. This is the only > one. > > suggestions? Is this with any screenset or just one? It's possible to have a corrupted screenset, but in any case this sounds like something is corrupted in the session. So if rebuilding the screenset doesn't solve the problem, I'd say take the data and build a new session. Hopefully that won't be too big a PITA. Nick Batzdorf, editor/publisher Virtual Instruments Magazine www.Virtualinstrumentsmag.com 1-877 VImagzn (846-2496) +1818/905-9101, cell 590-9101

I think I found the problem. I had the DAE pref set to 2 DSP 96 voices. When I changed this back to 2 DSP 64 voice, the session played fine again. Now why that DSP preference only effected that 1 session I have no idea, It's actually smaller than other sessions that played fine? And why it mattered depending on the screenset? This one takes the bizarre prize. Thanks Nick. bd On Aug 3, 2007, at 9:00 AM, Nick Batzdorf wrote: > Posted by: "Bob DeMaa" bobdemaa@mac.com bmdps > Thu Aug 2, 2007 2:02 pm (PST) > >> I have a session I just got from a client. It's the only session I >> have with this problem, all my other sessions are working fine. >> >> If I'm in the arrange window and hit play, it stops after about 1 >> second. if I close the arrange window, and say, have the audio window >> open, or any of the Not Audio related environments like clicks and >> ports and hit play. The song plays fine. It only does not play if any >> arrange or audio mixer windows are open. It also stops playing if I >> resize any windows while it's playing. >> >> Like I said. Other sessions I'm opening work fine. This is the only >> one. >> >> suggestions? > > > Is this with any screenset or just one? It's possible to have a > corrupted screenset, but in any case this sounds like something is > corrupted in the session. > > So if rebuilding the screenset doesn't solve the problem, I'd say > take the data and build a new session. Hopefully that won't be too > big a PITA. > > > > Nick Batzdorf, editor/publisher > Virtual Instruments Magazine > www.Virtualinstrumentsmag.com > 1-877 VImagzn (846-2496) > +1818/905-9101, cell 590-9101 > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > Logic TDM Users Group - new forums! http://logic-users.org/forums/L- > TDM > - To UNSUBSCRIBE: email logic-tdm-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > - Search the entire archive: http://logic-users.org/forums/L-TDM/ > search > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Posted by: "Bob DeMaa" bobdemaa@mac.com bmdps Fri Aug 3, 2007 9:50 am (PST) > I think I found the problem. I had the DAE pref set to 2 DSP 96 > voices. When I changed this back to 2 DSP 64 voice, the session > played fine again. Now why that DSP preference only effected that 1 > session I have no idea, It's actually smaller than other sessions > that played fine? And why it mattered depending on the screenset? > This one takes the bizarre prize. It may be that changing the DAE prefs reset something that was creating fongula, so there's no rhyme or reason to it. But the real lesson of this story is never to listen to anything I say. Nick Batzdorf, editor/publisher Virtual Instruments Magazine www.Virtualinstrumentsmag.com 1-877 VImagzn (846-2496) +1818/905-9101, cell 590-9101

I've been reading up on the environmental layer, and I must be missing something, so I'm back with more questions. Every time I open the environment window, it adds a new # to it, leading me to believe I'm creating a new layer every time I open it. is that right? Also, is there a way to save an evnironment so that if I manage to get one to work, I don't have to re-create it every time I start a new project? When you create a template, does the environment stay with the template, or is it part of Logic's current setup at any given time? (I hope that made sense) As I understand it, the environment connects the arrange window to the mixer window. Is that the right way to look at it? I still can't find anything in the manual that helps me "connect" the environment to DTDM... I see it IN the environment (I forget which layer), but nothing happens when I try to play an instrument through it. Can all of Logic's instruments play through DAE and DTDM, or only the EXS24? I did manage to pass signal with DAE, but still no luck on DTDM. I appreciate the help!! I'd be scre... without it! Stephen

Hey Stephen Unlike Protools you really. really have to read the manual. Its like buying a ferrari.......... Kit ! You have to put it together and define how everything works. Likely the downfall of the platform and why it will never usurp protools on a pro or even consumer level IMO. In protools if you say press cmd>2 for session info hitting cmd>2 again will either bring that window to the front if it is in the back or do nothing if it is already displayed on top. In Logic the same type of behavior will create redundant windows (eg environment #2). So to clarify this is just a copy of the original window NOT an environment layer. Locic is a nearly total open architecture program. You have to define a template of how you want to work and then save it as ³autoload² in the logic folder located at home>application support>logic>song templates. When you save it you will have constructed all of your midi and audio routing options in the environment and tracks that display on your edit page and mix page. You will want to select the key command for each window you like to use together and save it as a screenset. You can do this multiple times for different views. Within each screenset use the cmd>~ key command to toggle between windows. So for example if you have the mix and edit and environment windows open use cmd>~ to cycle through the windows to get back to the environment. Speaking of the environment on the left hand side of the environment window is a pull down window that probably has ³clicks and Ports² or ³Audio instruments² or ³instruments² or ³audio² as its title. Click on it. The last option is create new environment layer. Personally I make a separate layer for DAE based and Native (DTDM for you) audio. Within each environment layer are ³audio Objects² which may ne either Tracks, inputs, auxes, or audio instruments, each audio object can be defined as either a midi track, audio instrument, audio track, input aux, etc. And for all audio related ³audio objects (audio track, input, aux) you can choose whether they are DAE based or Natively (dtdm) based. You do this via the properties pane on the left hand side of the environment layer, poke around there for a while and see what you see. Click on an already existing track and then toggle the properties to be DAE audo track/mono, stereo or DTDM input or whatever you need. In my case I renamed the ³Audio Layer² ³DAE AUDIO² and then created a new layer ³NATIVE AUDIO²/ IN the DAE AUDIO² Layer I created say 32 audio objects named as ³audio tracks² 1-32 and then 4 DAE stereo inputs to receive the ESB Bridge inputs 1-2 to 7-8 and then a couple more DAE Stereo inputs to return hardware reverbs, selecting channels from my PT interfaces as their inputs. In the ³Native Audio ³ I created say 8 stereo audio track and 8 mono audio track ³audio objects² and then four more Stereo DTDM aux ³audio objects² to send the native tracks and audio instruments to the 4 pair of inputs in the DAE layer. You need to select ESB outputs for the Audio instrument layer as well. Once you instanciate the ESB1-2 through ESB 7-8 inputs on the 4 pair of DAE layer inputs, DAE routing options will appear on your DTDM tracks output and you need to select those. Envision hooking a bunch of keyboards to a Mackie 32-8 mixer sending its 8 busses to 8 channels your SSL console . The DAE layer is the SSL and the DTDM/Native layer and the Audio instruments Layer are the Mackie. With that done you should be in business. From here you can get very sophisticated say using Drumkit from hell in multi output mode and routing individual drums to different auxes and then outting them all together through a stereo input with a buss selected as its source so you can put a 2buss compressor across the stereo drum image. With luck eventually you might be able to write some music! If you want my opinion, for me personally if Logic 8 is not totally stellar I will likely ditch Logic altogether as I do a lot of audio recording and its handling of that is archaic and not thought out at all. At this point PT 7.3 offers very capable midi and VI implementation that most of us who are not James Newton Howard wannabes will find adequate. For my .02 unless you really need to learn logic, and are not already a midi whiz, throwing down $600 for a second hand Digi 002 is a much better path. Good Luck MATT

On 5/08/2007, at 6:40 AM, Stephen Egerton O'Reilly wrote: > > Every time I open the environment window, it adds a new # to it, > leading me to believe I'm creating a new layer every time I open > it. is that right? Most likely not. It's just another window, in the same way as you can have a number of Arrange windows open. > > Also, is there a way to save an evnironment so that if I manage to > get one to work, I don't have to re-create it every time I start a > new project? > > When you create a template, does the environment stay with the > template, or is it part of Logic's current setup at any given > time? (I hope that made sense) To answer both questions: the template will be saved with the environment you've created. > > As I understand it, the environment connects the arrange window to > the mixer window. Is that the right way to look at it? Sort of. The "Audio" layer of the environment IS the mixer, it's where you add/delete audio objects (like tracks and auxiliary inputs). The environment consists of several layers, of which the Audio layer is one. The Audio layer is where you'll do 99.9% of your environment work. There is a menu at the top left where you select which layer you want to view. (To be honest I rarely use the "Track Mixer". I find it confusing as it changes dynamically. My basic template has an Audio environment layer with 24 DAE tracks, half a dozen DAE Aux's, couple of dozen DTDM Audio Tracks and Instruments. This is saved as a locked screenset and when working I'm usually switching between my Arrange screenset and my Audio/environment screenset.) > > I still can't find anything in the manual that helps me "connect" > the environment to DTDM... I see it IN the environment (I forget > which layer), but nothing happens when I try to play an instrument > through it. > > Can all of Logic's instruments play through DAE and DTDM, or only > the EXS24? You don't "connect" the environment to DTDM - your DTDM audio objects exist within the environment. Just as you create DAE Audio Tracks and Aux's on the Audio layer of the environment, so too with DTDM. If you like, it's like having two separate mixing desks in the same window: one with your DAE tracks and one with your DTDM tracks. BUT - DAE HAS to be the "Master" playback system, so we need a way to inject our DTDM mixing desk into our DAE mixing desk. You do this by assigning the outputs of all your DTDM Audio Tracks and Instruments to "ESB". There are 8 channels of ESB, so you could put all your DTDM drum tracks on ESB 1-2, all the vocals on 3-4 etc. I usually just stick everything through ESB 1-2. Now you need to bring this ESB output into the DAE side. Create a DAE Stereo Aux and assign its input to "ESB 1-2". It's that simple. All your DTDM Tracks and Instruments which are assigned to the ESB 1-2 output will appear at your new DAE Aux input. If you want to use the DTDM plug-ins on Audio Tracks, just record through DAE as normal, then create a DTDM Audio Track and move the audio to the DTDM track in the Arrange window. HTH Ian ------------------------------ Ian G. Morris - Tonewright ian@igmusic.co.nz http://www.igmusic.co.nz http://www.thdudes.co.nz http://www.stupidad.co.nz

<Sort of. The "Audio" layer of the environment IS the mixer, it's where you add/delete audio objects (like tracks and auxiliary inputs).> This is actually a little misleading as audio instruments and native tracks should also appear in the mixer view, but have their own environment layer although you can create them anywhere. Its more like the mixer minus the instruments and native objects. If you display all of your auxes and the like that you use mixing in the arrange window, including any auxes for bussing between environment layer , and any other objects that are not appearing in the mixer window, they will follow between the arrange and global mixer, you also have to have the link button enabled. The random dynamic track representation was very confusing for me as well, this cleared it up, and having all families of tracks show in t the mixer it is easier than toggling between environment layers to set levele/plug ins etc for VI¹s or coreaudio/dtdm tracks (apple loops, recycle etc) --

Excellent! Thanks for all the info. I did make some breakthroughs, though I'm not all the way there yet. I have finally managed to get the ESB part of the equasion to work, thought I'm not sure if it's how it was intended. Please let me know if you think this makes sense. I disabled core audio. I did have Logic playing through my TDM hardware via Digi core audio, and I understand that I can go back to that if need be. I set up a new project that has 24 audio tracks using DAE as the playback engine, and I see that I can use the 888's inputs to bring audio into Logic. This is the part I want to make sure I'm doing right... I set up 24 instrument tracks, and 12 aux tracks, and I'm bringing the instrument tracks into 8 of the aux tracks with the ESB inputs. This way, I was able to use instruments other than just the EXS24 with TDM plugins, and if I want more instruments, I can use the EXS24 on aux tracks with TDM plugins following. Does this use of the system make sense to you guys? Another thing I haven't figured out yet, is how to record an instrument... or commit it to being an audio file. I may want to work in Logic, then import all my finished tracks into PT for mixing. I tried bussing aux and instrument tracks to audio tracks, and recording them that way, but had no luck. Am I missing something here? Ok, another question is about the TDM useage. Do the EXS24's inserted on aux tracks use the Digi cards for processing, or is that still being done natively? The TDM user guide is a bit unclear on this. I guess I'm trying to figure out if there are any advantages to this setup besides being able to use TDM plugins in Logic. I'm unclear as to what the Digi cards are bringing to the party, besides I/O for incoming/outgoing audio. I'm going to poke around some more, which will likely bring a bunch more questions... Thanks so much for taking the time to help me understand this. VERY cool of you all. Stephen

Right sounds like you got it working. One thing you may find is that likely you will use esx instruments on the DTDM tracks only. The reason for this is that with a MIX system with 32 tracks and ESB enabled you will have probably have used 1/2 the chips on your card, as ESB is a direct connect style TDM plug in. I haven¹t even touched the ESX TDM as likely it uses a chip per instance, but the way you describe connecting it is correct and yes it does use DAE resources. Generally I use the DAE aux inputs from DTDM as buses and categorize instruments to various busses, eg drum kit, synths, strings etc. The logic plug ins especially EQ and compression are very good, on par with the waves renaissance plugs. If you need to effect an instrument with TDM or burn an instrument to a track, solo the desired track and the instrument (cmd>click your busses so that they play when something is soloed) and either set the tracks input to the esb input of the aux (I don¹t recall if this is possible as I use a second interface-motu 828 mkII to buss coreaudio into dae via the Digi adat bridge) or set the auxes output to a buss pair and the tracks input to that buss pair. If you are not hearing anything through the track you need to enable auto input monitoring. You will find if you are exporting audio files to protools, regions recorded in logic will have the preroll you selected rounded to the nearest bar. To see this record some audio and then drag the beginning of the region backwards in the timeline. If say you started your recording at bar 4 beat 3, the region will likely start at bar 3, if you started it ay bar 5, likely the region will extend to bar 3. I haven¹t figured the delineation of when it rounds up or down but it is strange. Notice this and create a work method that enables easy assembly in ptools. Also In my experience panther mysteriously does not support 48k sample rate with Logic/PT and the DTDM/coreaudio aspect will shut down. And if you need to punch in Logic does not seem to support preroll monitoring once the track is rolling. Generally I clip the audio where it needs punching in and then record enable a second track and then drag the two together afterwards. Another thing the DIGI coreaudio driver in PT 6.4 is pretty well known to not only stink but create instability across the board. Best bet is to delete it entirely. I mentioned in a note to another member yesterday that displaying all of your auxes, bussing of instruments and DTDM tracks and enabling the link button in both windows will enable the mix and arrange windows to follow each other, also in the top right of the arrange window choose ³smart² for grid resolution and ³no overlap². When you get your basic setup sussed out save it as ³autoload² and place it in the home>application support>Logic>audio templates folder. Now when you start logic it will load this template and for reasons unknown Logic will behave more stable and less erratically than if say you saved the session as a stationary pad or just opened it and saved a copy as...² You can make different templates and place them in the folder naming them like Techno template, Orchestral Template etc. Then if you use the New Project command under the file menu you can select which template and logic will generate all the necessary sub folders (audio etc) for you automatically as we have come to expect in PT. Hit Save. Hit it a lot. Logic as you probably have noticed takes a few seconds to save a session. It does not have near the stability of protools, especially running ESB (coreaudio with a second non digi interface is better< but still less stable than Pt alone), and the session backup function is not a say, save every ten minutes function as in PT. I think it makes a duplicate every time YOU save. Likely to protect against a corrupted file, not to retrieve changes lost in a crash, So save save save. If you have not already be sure you have a separate hard drive for your Boot drive/OS, Audio Files/Sessions, and samples/apple loops/REX files/Instruments, and if you run video a separate drive for that. I think your g4 will hold 4 drives internally which is the best bet. Good luck! MATT --

Thanks Matt! I appreciate your time on this. I've definitely got some learning to do. I've saved the project I got working as a template, and will go from there for a couple of days, and see where I get. I've got to get some kind of "logical" workflow going. I'll report back soon. Thanks everyone!

This error message appears when i try to load a mix I have been working on for days. I decided to go back into the file to tweak a few things after I mastered in Pro Tools. I'm wondering if Logic has saved something which it now can't open fro some reason (can it save something that's too big for it to re-load?). I have it backed up on another drive and the same thing happens with that file. It hangs for a long time on bootup with the "mixer setup" window showing, and then shows the error and then crashes. I have 96 tracks of audio, all DAE, and the outputs are routed to various outputs so I can send them to the dangerous summing mixer. There are a lot of vocal rides, but nothing more than I've done before. any ideas? G4 dual 1.25, Panther 10.3.9, PT 6.9, Logic 7.1.1 Everything has been working fine for weeks, including similar mixes etc. An older version of the logic file (way before the automation/routing etc) does open, but it . Thanks! Greg

So - wanted to report my success apparently Logic does save mixer routings that it can't reload. This is a very dangerous flaw - as you can imagine with recalls and mix tweaks. The way i got back into the file was this - I took some plugins out of the plugs folder so that the song file was less dsp intensive and the mixer could load, and then when I got into the song I dumped some of the plugs and wrote down the settings (Auto tune mostly) and routed a bunch of tracks back to 1/2. I saved under a new name and re-launched with the plugs back in the folder. Then it loaded and I routed things back the way i had them. Now I can tweak the mix, but I don't know whether I'll ever get back in again (without doing the same thing) Any other ideas out there? This is frustrating in the trust department. Greg On Aug 6, 2007, at 9:59 PM, Greg Critchley wrote: > This error message appears when i try to load a mix I have been working > on for days. I decided to go back into the file to tweak a few things > after I mastered in Pro Tools. > > I'm wondering if Logic has saved something which it now can't open fro > some reason (can it save something that's too big for it to re-load?). > I have it backed up on another drive and the same thing happens with > that file. It hangs for a long time on bootup with the "mixer setup" > window showing, and then shows the error and then crashes. > > I have 96 tracks of audio, all DAE, and the outputs are routed to > various outputs so I can send them to the dangerous summing mixer. > There are a lot of vocal rides, but nothing more than I've done > before. > > any ideas? > > G4 dual 1.25, Panther 10.3.9, PT 6.9, Logic 7.1.1 > > Everything has been working fine for weeks, including similar mixes > etc. An older version of the logic file (way before the > automation/routing etc) does open, but it . > > Thanks! > > Greg > > >

I guess it's a little early to speculate about Logic's compatibility regarding this, but on page 3 in the Digizine Summer 2007 Dave Lebolt mentions that super-high-grade elastic audio coming to ProTools in the future. When Digi says "super-high-grade", I'm willing to believe them. I fear it's going to be an RTAS thing but if it worked on TDM tracks in Logic it would be awesome. Anyone got more info? Martin