My memory doesn't serve me well these days :-( ... That should read 128 sample buffer on a dual G5... Sorry... I wrote: > As Dave Katz reported Symphony works fine at 96 kHz with buffer > size as low as 32 samples on a Quad Mac Pro and with 256 sample buffer on > a > dual G5. Check the list archive if you want more details.

I have the Mac pro Intel 3 ghz with symphony, rosetta 800 & Big Ben, its fantastic, but I was told by waves to set the buffer to 512 I was getting jitter with the L3 PAUL HARTWIG COMPOSER cell 612.280.0954 paul@hartwigmusic.com  www.hartwigmusic.com

This is going to sound like a newbie question and I'm slightly embarassed to ask. But--most of my work involving video is short form (commercials, promos, etc) Rarely over 60 seconds. The NTSC standard frame rate for video (non-HD) is 29.97. The quicktime movies I am synching to show "29.97" in the get info page. I always used 29.97 in Logic. Occasionaly I would notice that the video would be off by a frame or 2. But always thought it was just a quicktime thing or whoever digitized the video didn't do it right. But after working on this project that is 3 minutes long I notice that my frames are way off after 2 minutes or so. I look in the Logic Reference manual and it says 29.97d is the standard and 29.97 is extremly rare. Huh? So I should have been using 29.97d all this time? Why don't they make 29.97 the same as Quicktimes 29.97. ProTools doesn't have an option for 29.97d. Only 29.97. I thought that was the rate I was using in Logic. But I guess I was wrong. Can anyone confirm this??? Thanks

Thus making you think that Logic or Symphony was the problem instead of Waves. There is no reason you should have to set your buffer to 512 if you have a Symphony card and a Mac Pro 3ghz. That's crazy. Unless maybe you are also running a bunch of convolution reverbs as well. I saw a demo of Symphony on a Mac Pro Quad 2.66 running a ton of tracks with a ton of plug-ins (including several Absynths, Space Designers, Sculptures and Ultrabeats) and a buffer setting of 32. That's kind of the point of the Symphony system. Obviously any native system is going to have its limits, but there's no way one plug in should require a buffer of 512. Especially a limiter. I like Waves plugs and use them all the time but I wonder how sloppy that code is when they went from PowerPC to Universal format??? --- In logic-tdm@yahoogroups.com, Paul Hartwig <paul@...> wrote: > > > I have the Mac pro Intel 3 ghz with symphony, rosetta 800 & Big Ben, > its fantastic, but I was told by waves to set the buffer to 512 > > I was getting jitter with the L3

That makes sense, since the L3 is one of their phase-linear plugins. Those use a lot more processing than the regular Waves stuff. Even with TDM, inserting the L3 or even the LinEQ causes significantly audible latency. I have to disable those or use substitutes like RenEQ or whatever, for tracking, even in TDM... then I put back the Linear plugs for mixing or mastering when the latency is not an issue. I bet you can use a much smaller buffer if you don't use the Linear Phase Waves plugs. - Dave David Gordon Composer/Producer Sequoia Records http://www.davidgordon.com http://www.sequoiarecords.com On May 3, 2007, at 7:38 AM, Paul Hartwig wrote: > > I have the Mac pro Intel 3 ghz with symphony, rosetta 800 & Big Ben, > its fantastic, but I was told by waves to set the buffer to 512 > > I was getting jitter with the L3 > > > > > PAUL HARTWIG > COMPOSER > > cell 612.280.0954 > paul@hartwigmusic.com > > > > www.hartwigmusic.com > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > Logic TDM Users Group - new forums! http://logic-users.org/forums/L- > TDM > - To UNSUBSCRIBE: email logic-tdm-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > - Search the entire archive: http://logic-users.org/forums/L-TDM/ > search > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

There's another way to look at this too. Let's say it is sloppy code or whatever... If you're popping an L3 on something like your mix bus, hopefully your in mixing mode, and the buffer setting isn't going to matter. Pick and choose your tools as you go. personally I'd never consider using an L3 during tracking, or if a mix was in place turn it off and find a suitable replacement for the overdubs... Some folks like to argue about the "hassle" of switching your buffer around. But if you're mixing it only makes sense to do this. You can get a lot more cycles in at 1024 than you can at 32. I'ts not a big deal IMHO. best, bd On May 3, 2007, at 1:39 PM, shadowboxnyc wrote: > Thus making you think that Logic or Symphony was the problem > instead of Waves. There is > no reason you should have to set your buffer to 512 if you have a > Symphony card and a Mac > Pro 3ghz. That's crazy. Unless maybe you are also running a bunch > of convolution reverbs > as well. I saw a demo of Symphony on a Mac Pro Quad 2.66 running a > ton of tracks with a > ton of plug-ins (including several Absynths, Space Designers, > Sculptures and Ultrabeats) and > a buffer setting of 32. That's kind of the point of the Symphony > system. Obviously any > native system is going to have its limits, but there's no way one > plug in should require a > buffer of 512. Especially a limiter. I like Waves plugs and use > them all the time but I wonder > how sloppy that code is when they went from PowerPC to Universal > format??? > > > --- In logic-tdm@yahoogroups.com, Paul Hartwig <paul@...> wrote: >> >> >> I have the Mac pro Intel 3 ghz with symphony, rosetta 800 & Big Ben, >> its fantastic, but I was told by waves to set the buffer to 512 >> >> I was getting jitter with the L3 > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > Logic TDM Users Group - new forums! http://logic-users.org/forums/L- > TDM > - To UNSUBSCRIBE: email logic-tdm-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > - Search the entire archive: http://logic-users.org/forums/L-TDM/ > search > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Very true. Good point. In thinking about it. I don't think it is sloppy code. Its just the way the L3 works. It's a look ahead limiter. So perhaps a buffer setting of 32 doesn't give it enough of a look. And it needs more like 512. (But it is amazing how incredibly efficient the Logic Plugs are compared to many Waves or Native Instrument plugs.) --- In logic-tdm@yahoogroups.com, Bob DeMaa <bobdemaa@...> wrote: > > There's another way to look at this too. Let's say it is sloppy code > or whatever... If you're popping an L3 on something like your mix > bus, hopefully your in mixing mode, and the buffer setting isn't > going to matter. Pick and choose your tools as you go. personally > I'd never consider using an L3 during tracking, or if a mix was in > place turn it off and find a suitable replacement for the overdubs... > > Some folks like to argue about the "hassle" of switching your buffer > around. But if you're mixing it only makes sense to do this. You can > get a lot more cycles in at 1024 than you can at 32. I'ts not a big > deal IMHO. > > best, > > bd > > On May 3, 2007, at 1:39 PM, shadowboxnyc wrote: > > > Thus making you think that Logic or Symphony was the problem > > instead of Waves. There is > > no reason you should have to set your buffer to 512 if you have a > > Symphony card and a Mac > > Pro 3ghz. That's crazy. Unless maybe you are also running a bunch > > of convolution reverbs > > as well. I saw a demo of Symphony on a Mac Pro Quad 2.66 running a > > ton of tracks with a > > ton of plug-ins (including several Absynths, Space Designers, > > Sculptures and Ultrabeats) and > > a buffer setting of 32. That's kind of the point of the Symphony > > system. Obviously any > > native system is going to have its limits, but there's no way one > > plug in should require a > > buffer of 512. Especially a limiter. I like Waves plugs and use > > them all the time but I wonder > > how sloppy that code is when they went from PowerPC to Universal > > format??? > > > > > > --- In logic-tdm@yahoogroups.com, Paul Hartwig <paul@> wrote: > >> > >> > >> I have the Mac pro Intel 3 ghz with symphony, rosetta 800 & Big Ben, > >> its fantastic, but I was told by waves to set the buffer to 512 > >> > >> I was getting jitter with the L3 > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > __ > > Logic TDM Users Group - new forums! http://logic-users.org/forums/L- > > TDM > > - To UNSUBSCRIBE: email logic-tdm-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > - Search the entire archive: http://logic-users.org/forums/L-TDM/ > > search > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Nope. Look here for sample configurations. http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/symphony_systems.php --- In logic-tdm@yahoogroups.com, "James Hall" <jim@...> wrote: Is there a way of getting more than 8 channels of > litepipe to connect to my TDM system without buying more than 1 Rosetta 800?

In my experience, both are equally used. I find the lower end projects (Discovery Channel & other cable docs, some commercial work) work in 29.97drop, while higher end stuff is 29.97 non-drop. Don't know why, but that's what I see. The quicktimes I get are usually unreliable as to the frame rate. Try to get a DVD and rip it yourself if possible.

no worries on the L3 I thought I'd share my experience with it, I use the L1& other wave plugs with the buffer set to 32 and no issues. I have to say the symphony system is very fast and never crashes, check this out, the [NEW] videos http://seminars.apple.com/sol_us_en.html Peace, Paul PAUL HARTWIG COMPOSER cell 612.280.0954 paul@hartwigmusic.com  www.hartwigmusic.com

I can understand the L3 thing as it canes my PTHD system as well. My query is based more on that I am hoping to change my system so that I run logic on a Macpro and use totally VIs mainly Kontakt2 and EXS24 instead of 2 Gigastudio PCs and then lightpipe the audio out to PTHD on my G5. Can anyone report on the symphony card performance with a lot of VIs running? Thanks in advance, Jim James Hall musician composer

I learned all about time code in my college days, and I completely forgot an important aspect of the whole thing. The picture of 29.97 non-drop and 29.97 drop is exactly the same. It's only the visible time code that is different. In Drop format, the first 2 frame numbers of every minute are dropped. No actual frames are dropped. In other words, unless the Time Code is burned in to the video it makes no difference which one you use. I do think that something our industry needs is a Quicktime format with reliable timecode, possibly even embedded in the file. Similar to the Broadcast Wave Format, but for video. And would also allow compression (H.264) that maintains precise timecode. --- In logic-tdm@yahoogroups.com, "ativity2003" <me@...> wrote: > > In my experience, both are equally used. I find the lower end projects > (Discovery Channel & other cable docs, some commercial work) work in > 29.97drop, while higher end stuff is 29.97 non-drop. Don't know why, > but that's what I see. > The quicktimes I get are usually unreliable as to the frame rate. Try > to get a DVD and rip it yourself if possible. >

Does anybody know where to download a OSX version of the DUY Global TDM Bundle since the guys from the support don't answer my questions and I have a iLok dongle for it? I just would need to find a ftp where to download it, and unfortunately it is not possible from the DUY website. Many thanks in advance

Hey all, Does anyone happen to know when Logic might run on HD-based Intel machines? I've just stumbled upon this poorly-advertised brick wall following a fairly expensive upgrade, and it's quite devastating. Thanks, - Ido

> Does anybody know where to download a OSX version of the DUY Global > TDM > Bundle since the guys from the support don't answer my questions > and I have > a iLok dongle for it? I just would need to find a ftp where to > download it, > and unfortunately it is not possible from the DUY website. > > Many thanks in advance Do you just have the license on the ilok or the serial number also? You need the serial for the install. Jim

Dear Jim, I have the iLok and the yellow card with the serial number, but unfortunately I only have the OS9 CD ROM of the plug. _____ From: logic-tdm@yahoogroups.com [mailto:logic-tdm@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James Richmond Sent: 07 May 2007 16:46 To: logic-tdm@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [L-TDM] DUY Global TDM Bundle > Does anybody know where to download a OSX version of the DUY Global > TDM > Bundle since the guys from the support don't answer my questions > and I have > a iLok dongle for it? I just would need to find a ftp where to > download it, > and unfortunately it is not possible from the DUY website. > > Many thanks in advance Do you just have the license on the ilok or the serial number also? You need the serial for the install. Jim

Logic will run on intel macs now, with Logic 7.2 Pro Tools will run on intel macs also, with PT 7.2 or 7.3 However, Logic 7.2 is NOT compatible with PT7.2 or 7.3 therefore Logic CANNOT run on intel Macs using DAE/TDM. There is a "rumour" from people working inside Apple that Logic 8 will be released in June, probably at WWDC, and the new version will support TDM again. Digidesign says on their website that they gave Logic the information needed to make the two programs work together last September, and that an update must come from Apple to make it work. Apple has removed some (but not all) Logic/TDM compatibility claims from their website and added an asterisk with fine print saying that those claims apply only to G4 and G5 computers (computers they don't sell any more). - Dave On May 7, 2007, at 1:21 AM, nitefly75 wrote: > Hey all, > > Does anyone happen to know when Logic might run on HD-based Intel > machines? I've just stumbled upon this poorly-advertised brick wall > following a fairly expensive upgrade, and it's quite devastating. > > Thanks, > > - Ido > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > Logic TDM Users Group - new forums! http://logic-users.org/forums/L- > TDM > - To UNSUBSCRIBE: email logic-tdm-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > - Search the entire archive: http://logic-users.org/forums/L-TDM/ > search > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Thanks Dave! That was very helpful. I only wish that asterix was put there prior to me forking $4K over for a gleaming-new, fully blown Intel machine. :) - Ido --- In logic-tdm@yahoogroups.com, David Gordon <music-pro@...> wrote: > > Logic will run on intel macs now, with Logic 7.2 > > Pro Tools will run on intel macs also, with PT 7.2 or 7.3 > > However, Logic 7.2 is NOT compatible with PT7.2 or 7.3 therefore > Logic CANNOT run on intel Macs using DAE/TDM. > > There is a "rumour" from people working inside Apple that Logic 8 > will be released in June, probably at WWDC, and the new version will > support TDM again. Digidesign says on their website that they gave > Logic the information needed to make the two programs work together > last September, and that an update must come from Apple to make it work. > > Apple has removed some (but not all) Logic/TDM compatibility claims > from their website and added an asterisk with fine print saying that > those claims apply only to G4 and G5 computers (computers they don't > sell any more). > > - Dave > > > > > On May 7, 2007, at 1:21 AM, nitefly75 wrote: > > > Hey all, > > > > Does anyone happen to know when Logic might run on HD-based Intel > > machines? I've just stumbled upon this poorly-advertised brick wall > > following a fairly expensive upgrade, and it's quite devastating. > > > > Thanks, > > > > - Ido

Yeah, I'm pretty upset about it myself. My company bought two of them and we're using the HD 3 Accel's as a basic input device. Apple has been unwilling to even discuss it with us (even though we've bought 12 to 15 new macs since the early 90's). To them, we're just consumers, like someone that bought an iPod. My music equipment vendor is the one who got the info about the pending upgrade from his contacts inside Apple. Depending on Apple for studio software is really a drag. They're postponing their major new OS releases of Leopard to work on the iPhone. So how important can Logic be in the big picture over there? I have no interest in platform wars, or anything like that. I simply want to be treated with basic professional courtesy, and Apple is not even close on that front. They used to be good at that, like Disneyland and FedEx. But not any more. - Dave On May 7, 2007, at 9:59 AM, nitefly75 wrote: > Thanks Dave! That was very helpful. > > I only wish that asterix was put there prior to me forking $4K over > for a gleaming-new, fully blown Intel machine. :) > > - Ido > > --- In logic-tdm@yahoogroups.com, David Gordon <music-pro@...> wrote: >> >> Logic will run on intel macs now, with Logic 7.2 >> >> Pro Tools will run on intel macs also, with PT 7.2 or 7.3 >> >> However, Logic 7.2 is NOT compatible with PT7.2 or 7.3 therefore >> Logic CANNOT run on intel Macs using DAE/TDM. >> >> There is a "rumour" from people working inside Apple that Logic 8 >> will be released in June, probably at WWDC, and the new version will >> support TDM again. Digidesign says on their website that they gave >> Logic the information needed to make the two programs work together >> last September, and that an update must come from Apple to make it >> work. >> >> Apple has removed some (but not all) Logic/TDM compatibility claims >> from their website and added an asterisk with fine print saying that >> those claims apply only to G4 and G5 computers (computers they don't >> sell any more). >> >> - Dave >> >> >> >> >> On May 7, 2007, at 1:21 AM, nitefly75 wrote: >> >>> Hey all, >>> >>> Does anyone happen to know when Logic might run on HD-based Intel >>> machines? I've just stumbled upon this poorly-advertised brick wall >>> following a fairly expensive upgrade, and it's quite devastating. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> - Ido > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > Logic TDM Users Group - new forums! http://logic-users.org/forums/L- > TDM > - To UNSUBSCRIBE: email logic-tdm-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > - Search the entire archive: http://logic-users.org/forums/L-TDM/ > search > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

On May 7, 2007, at 6:52 PM, David Gordon wrote: > Logic will run on intel macs now, with Logic 7.2 > > Pro Tools will run on intel macs also, with PT 7.2 or 7.3 > > However, Logic 7.2 is NOT compatible with PT7.2 or 7.3 Clearly put, but not entirely correct: In my experience, Logic 7.2 is compatible with PT7.3 - just not on Intel macs. The combination works om my G5 with DAE and DTDM. It is the 'DAE-part' of Logic that is not compatible with TDM hardware on Intel macs so the bottom line of what David says is true: Logic can't work with DAE on Intel Macs. That doesn't help Ido of course. And it's really annoying that this still doesn't work and there's no reliable info on when it will work. Very unprofessional. FWIW, I heard the same rumour about Logic 8 being released at WWDC in June, from a reliable source working closely with the Logic development team. He said the release was originally planned for Frankfurt, but was postponed. He also said it will be a big release. hth, Ivo

Ivo That's interesting, even Apple doesn't claim Logic 7.2 works with PT 7.3 on G5's. I guess you lucked out! I was curious so I checked their website today and found the following: Their current Logic Pro 7 Data Sheet states this: http://images.apple.com/logicpro/pdf/LogicPro7_DS.pdf > Digidesign HD hardware support Support for Digidesign TDM and HD > hardware > ensures compatibility with the hardware-expandable > I/O and DSP system. This hardware has traditionally > been popular among high-end professionals and > recording facilities. Logic Pro is also the only TDM > host product that can run TDM- and host-based > plug-ins simultaneously in the same session. Their system requirements state this: http://www.apple.com/logicpro/specs.html > System Requirements > Macintosh computer with PowerPC G4, PowerPC G5 or Intel Core Duo; > Intel Core Duo, PowerPC G5, or dual PowerPC G4 processor recommended Then, in the Apple store, their features page is the only place the problem is acknowledged (that I could find): http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/ RSLID?mcoD902B0&nplm=MA336ZM/A > 3. Digidesign Pro Tools HD 7 DAE support > Logic Pro 7.2 is fully compatible with the Pro Tools 7.1 version of > DAE. All features are supported, including ESB and EXS24TDM. (Pro > Tools HD compatibility is currently limited to PowerPC based > systems only) That's where I got the info about needing PT 7.1 This is why (they say) Logic 7.2 won't run DAE on Intel macs, because you need PT 7.2 or greater to run on Intel, PT 7.1 is G4 or G5 only. I don't particularly believe Apple is purposely doing false advertising (although it's possible), I think it's more likely that they just did not bother going back and correcting their documents to protect their users from being mislead - it just wasn't worth an hour of HTML programming to them. That one parenthetical remark about non-compatibility was not added until December 2006 after many complaints on many forums. It's just a big drag that this company that treats its professional customers badly happens to own the best software application for music composition. I wish it were otherwise, but wishing won't make it so. Dave On May 7, 2007, at 12:03 PM, Ivo Witteveen wrote: > > On May 7, 2007, at 6:52 PM, David Gordon wrote: > >> Logic will run on intel macs now, with Logic 7.2 >> >> Pro Tools will run on intel macs also, with PT 7.2 or 7.3 >> >> However, Logic 7.2 is NOT compatible with PT7.2 or 7.3 > > Clearly put, but not entirely correct: > In my experience, Logic 7.2 is compatible with PT7.3 - just not on > Intel macs. The combination works om my G5 with DAE and DTDM. > > It is the 'DAE-part' of Logic that is not compatible with TDM > hardware on Intel macs so the bottom line of what David says is true: > Logic can't work with DAE on Intel Macs. > > That doesn't help Ido of course. And it's really annoying that this > still doesn't work and there's no reliable info on when it will work. > Very unprofessional. > > FWIW, I heard the same rumour about Logic 8 being released at WWDC in > June, from a reliable source working closely with the Logic > development team. He said the release was originally planned for > Frankfurt, but was postponed. He also said it will be a big release. > > hth, > > Ivo > > > > >

On May 7, 2007, at 9:27 PM, David Gordon wrote: > > That's where I got the info about needing PT 7.1 This is why (they > say) Logic 7.2 won't run DAE on Intel macs, because you need PT 7.2 > or greater to run on Intel, PT 7.1 is G4 or G5 only. > > I don't particularly believe Apple is purposely doing false > advertising (although it's possible), I think it's more likely that > they just did not bother going back and correcting their documents to > protect their users from being mislead - it just wasn't worth an hour > of HTML programming to them. You're probably right. It appears to me that the info is outdated and that LP7.2 also works with newer PT versions as long as it's a PowerPC based system. I only changed recently to Tiger/LP7.2/PT7.3 (two weeks ago) and am still finishing some projects booting up in Panther/PT6.9/LP7 half of the time (from a different drive..) so I don't have much run-time with LP7.2/PT7.3 but it does work. What's more, I only upgraded after I heard from another user on this list that the combination was working for him. > > That one parenthetical remark about non-compatibility was not added > until December 2006 after many complaints on many forums. I know, it's a shame. > > It's just a big drag that this company that treats its professional > customers badly happens to own the best software application for > music composition. I wish it were otherwise, but wishing won't make > it so. Couldn't agree more. And it's not just the Intel compatiblity - there's a whole range of issues with TDM compatibility that they've left hanging in the air for a couple of years now. It's the non-information that's bugging me the most - I could probably live with changing to either PT, Logic native or an entirely different platform if I really had to - as long as I knew the investement in time and money would be worthwhile. It is very hard to make decisions on investments in Logic Pro, new Macs and TDM hardware with so little information. Cheers, Ivo QQ Audio Jacob van Lennepkade 187 1054 ZN Amsterdam The Netherlands tel: ++ 31 (0)20 4700627 fax:++ 31 (0)20 4700624 http://www.qq-audio.com

Hi All: The Bob Power NYLPUG Meeting is now up on the NYLPUG web site : http://nylpug.com/wordpress/archives/category/podcasts. I hope to get the TIm Gilles meeting up within two days. I still have some work to do on the Toby Gad meeting. Enjoy, and spread the word! Jonathan ________________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________ Jonathan Perl • Associate Director, Sonic Arts Center at the City College of New York. sonic.arts.ccny.cuny.edu • Apple Certified Trainer for Logic Pro. Apple Authorized Training Center. www.macaudiotrainers.com • Get the ultimate Logic training DVD, Inside Logic Pro 7.1. www.digitalmediatraining.com/products/logicpro7/ • Get the Wired Planet CD or MP3s: store.wiredplanetstore.com ________________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________

"nitefly75" <ido@idowaksman.com> wrote: > Does anyone happen to know when Logic might run on > HD-based Intel machines? Apple hasn't announced anything regarding Intel/DAE compatibility yet. . f-erenc szabo, smarty pants Z+E+R+O+B+E+A+T "NOW POWERED BY THE MIRACLE OF THE TRANSISTOR!" <http://home.goodmedia.com/~zerobeat>

Hi All: The NYLPUG Meeting of 3.23.07, featuring Tim Gilles of Big Blue Meenie studios fame, is now up on the NYLPUG web site : http:// nylpug.com/wordpress/video-podcasts. Definitely worth checking out, IMHO. Jonathan ________________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________ Jonathan Perl • Associate Director, Sonic Arts Center at the City College of New York. sonic.arts.ccny.cuny.edu • Apple Certified Trainer for Logic Pro. Apple Authorized Training Center. www.macaudiotrainers.com • Get the ultimate Logic training DVD, Inside Logic Pro 7.1. www.digitalmediatraining.com/products/logicpro7/ • Get the Wired Planet CD or MP3s: store.wiredplanetstore.com ________________________________________________________________________