I have two Logic 4.0 manuals--one with a binder, and one is just the pages, never been used and available to a good home. Facinating history of the manuals: When I upgraded my trusty retailer told me that the competitive upgrade had a manual in it (it didn't). None were available for months, so I called from time to time. I got three copies Fed-Exed to me over a couple months. I asked if they wanted two back and never heard from them. I take that as a "no". So now they're free...you pay shipping and they're yours. --Robert Davidson http://robertdavidsonmusic.com