"Hi, Can we please end this thread! Thanks. If you really want to continue this thread, then do so at the logic-ot@yahoogroups.com list. Bye, Joeri" my thoughts exactly! So I'll kick things off here then. I use a PC ( a custom built "no name" built by a local chappie) with a (now) lowly PII 350, 256 meg RAM and a Yamaha SW1k, with 2x 10 gig hard drives (west dig caviar, one for audio only). Since upgrading to (1. the ASIO 2.4 drivers and (2.Logic Gold 4.5,, and (3, using XG edit, I can use it for hours at a time and its so stable I can forget about what kind of 'puter it is and just make music! It will run either 20 plus audio tracks + some midi with a few plugs, or some audio + midi (several of each) and low 20's number of Logic Plug-ins- fantastic. I would dearly LOVE a Mac though- at the time they were just too expensive, and I think my current system will not cope with EXS 24 and soft synths, but I'm sure a G4 would. Maybe when MLan is here, and I have some money I will get a G4 (or G5 by then?) with some kind of digital Mlan audio interface, and use my existing PC to run the SW1k (synched via Midi?) and for CD burning, internet etc....... OSX gives me some cause for concern, but then, so does the forthcoming windoze XP and Win 2000 which is supposed to have crap midi timing. A "slim" and clean win 98 works fine for me. anyway, I will continue to keep up with all these fantastic developments and keep my ageing (but stable) system doing the good job it does. BTW dont buy Oberheim OBtune (a cheap direct X version of auto tune), it does not install itself properly and I could not get it to work, even after numerous mails to their tech support. I gave up, got my money back and decided to work on improving my vocals instead :-) Cheers John Groovey Band website mail to : chickenjohn@... http://www.grooveyband.co.uk/ East Kent Morris Minor Club web site or ; john@... http://www.ekmm.co.uk Shake The Snake web site (other band) or ; john@... http://www.shakethesnake.co.uk

Hendrik Jan Veenstra wrote: >And it's 'Kerouac' BTW. >:-) I can't believe I mis-spelled his name!! Well, I wrote it a hundred times on the blackboard so it will never happen again:)) > A combination of regular (non-sysex) and sysex midi messages should > be able to accomplish _anything_ on your synth. > After twiddling with this all day I think I can finally explain what I'm trying to do. Presets on my keyboard are made up of two samples (pri. instrument and sec. instrument). So say I have an organ sound called Procol's Harem, when I look in the preset info the pri. instrument may be hard perc. organ and the sec. instrument may be soft pipe organ (just an example). This is what I want to change. With SYSEX I'm trying to make it possible to alter the pri. and sec. samples on the fly in Logic to create new sounds. So I came to the conclusion (I wouldn't really call it that, more like a guess) that what I should be doing is altering that particular program. What I mean is that If I have Procol's Harem on channel 4, I shouldn't access channel 4 I should acces the Procol's Harem program (preset), right? Because all I'm doing with channel 4 is accessing the Procol's Harem program, right? So how do I do this? I'm using my keyboard in multi-timbral mode. Can I set up a set of faders that does 1: access the program I want to tweak 2: set up the correct SYSEX Faders or SYSEX Maps to tweak those parameters ( I already have the knowledge how to do this) 3; Have this be independent so that when I tweak the first group of faders for the pri. instrument faders it won't interfere with any of the other programs I have faders set up for? I'm trying to think of it as creating a new instrument where not only can you choose which channel and program you want to play, but also tweak individual parameters for that specific program. Am I way out on Mars here? Is this even remotely possible? It's almost perfect now except that I want the SYSEX message I'm sending to be specific to a choosen program (preset). And to be able to do this with several programs that are on different channels at the same time. Am I starting to drive everybody crazy with all this or what? --Thanks Roger

Without knowing your particular synth, I can see what you are trying to do is edit performance presets on the fly. The way most synths work, you edit a performance to the way you want it, then save the performance in a user bank, so that it can be selected later. What you really need is a bank of single-voice performances and to set up the relationship between them in your logic song along with FX routing etc. The alternative is to use SoundDiver and access as many variations on patches as you have the time to program , from a SoundDiver library. Either way, its not easy to handle the interchange between patches in a complex instrument without allowing some time for the changeover, which is only increased if you use sysex. [sysex is far bulkier and neeeds more time to be sent, and you could be waiting for several bars for the changes to take effect]. Far better to load all the performances you want to use on different channels and change tracks when you want the sound to change [keyboard splits are good for this] Maybe what you really need is a sampler though. Dave Eager litepipe wrote: > . With SYSEX I'm trying to make it > possible to alter the pri. and sec. samples on the fly in Logic to > create > new sounds. >

Thoughts from the mind of litepipe, 23-04-2001: > After twiddling with this all day I think I can finally explain what I'm >trying to do. Presets on my keyboard are made up of two samples (pri. >instrument and sec. instrument). So say I have an organ sound called >Procol's Harem, when I look in the preset info the pri. instrument may be >hard perc. organ and the sec. instrument may be soft pipe organ (just an >example). This is what I want to change. With SYSEX I'm trying to make it >possible to alter the pri. and sec. samples on the fly in Logic to create >new sounds. Sounds (again) like the M1, where a Program can be either 'Single' or 'Double' -- i.e. use one or two 'sound sources' (oscillator, filter, amp). > So I came to the conclusion (I wouldn't really call it that, more like a >guess) that what I should be doing is altering that particular program. What >I mean is that If I have Procol's Harem on channel 4, I shouldn't access >channel 4 I should acces the Procol's Harem program (preset), right? Because >all I'm doing with channel 4 is accessing the Procol's Harem program, right? That's indeed what you want. The question is: is it possible? To me it sounds as if the answer might be 'no'. I hope you'll excuse my (by now probably boring) comparison with the M1, but there still seems to be a lot of similarity. On the M1 you have Programs and Combis. A Combi is a multi-timbral setup of up to 8 Programs. When you're in Combi-mode you can change which Program plays in any of the 8 multi-timbral slots, and you can change the channel on which those 8 Programs play (so they could all play on channel 1, or play on channels 2-9, or whatever). However, while in Combi mode, you can _not_ change parameters of a Program itself. If I use an organ Program in a multi-timbral setup (i.e. a Combi), I cannot change it's 'base sample' from Organ to AcouPiano for example. For this kind of edit, I have to be in Program mode (i.e. non-multitimbral). So if I do want to make this sort of on-the-fly changes, I need to have 2 different Programs, one based on Organ (e.g. Program number 21) and one based on AcouPiano (number 22), and then in Combi mode I can change the multitimbral "slot-assignment", so that "slot 4, playing on channel 12" is assigned to Program 22 instead of 21. > I'm trying to think of it as creating a new instrument where not only can >you choose which channel and program you want to play, but also tweak >individual parameters for that specific program. This depends on the structure of the Emu. Can you, using the Emu's front panel, do the things you describe (i.e. edit the multitimbral setup _and_ edit parameters for the constituting programs at the same time)? If not, than you can probably not do them by sysex either. As I explained above, the M1 can't do this -- I have to switch from Combi mode to Prog mode on the front panel in order to access either the Programs _or_ the multi-timbral Combis. If I insisted on doing something like this on the M1, each sysex fader should have the following chain of events associated with it: 1) switch to Program mode, 2) send Program change to access the right Program, 3) change parameter, 4) send Program Write Request, 5) switch back to Combi mode. That means that each fader movement would generate 4 sysex messages plus a program change -- not a very elegant or workable solution. And it probably wouldn't even work: if you drag a slider up quite fast, you would soon be generating tons of sysex, having the synth flip back & forth between various modes -- which the synth might find hard (or impossible) to digest. Or you get a midibuffer overflow on the Mac. Or any of a bunch of similar problems might pop up. >Am I way out on Mars here? Is this even remotely possible? It's almost >perfect now except that I want the SYSEX message I'm sending to be specific >to a choosen program (preset). And to be able to do this with several >programs that are on different channels at the same time. Well, editing the multi-timbral parameters for individual programs should be possible (stuff like relative volume, midi channel, maybe "keyzone", etc) -- but that's obviously not the same as editing program parameters (filter attack time, LFO waveshape, etc.). Your best bet might be to edit the Emu's 'base patches' (Programs) while in non multitimbral mode, and then afterwards assemble them in a multitimbral setup (Combi). > Am I starting to drive everybody crazy with all this or what? No, not at all. Being a teacher I get routinely confronted with much, MUCH sillier questions than yours :-). cheers, HJ -- Hendrik Jan Veenstra ( h@... )

Hendrik Jan Veenstra wrote: > That's indeed what you want. The question is: is it >possible? To me > it sounds as if the answer might be 'no'. I believe that you're right on this one. :(( > while in Combi mode, you can _not_ change parameters of a Program > itself. > If I use an organ Program in a multi-timbral setup (i.e. a Combi), I > cannot change it's 'base sample' from Organ to AcouPiano for example. > For this kind of edit, I have to be in Program mode (i.e. > non-multitimbral). This is what I was racking my brain trying to figure out just wishing that it was possible. > This depends on the structure of the Emu. Can you, using the Emu's > front panel, do the things you describe (i.e. edit the multitimbral > setup _and_ edit parameters for the constituting programs at the same > time)? Well, kind of... I can acces the presets in multi-timbral mode. But the keyboard has this "safety" feature that doesn't save any of the tweaks once you switch to a differant preset. That is unless you save the changes which I don't want to do. So, if I tweak the preset on channel 2 and then want to tweak the preset on channel 8 it doesn't remember the tweak on channel 2. Drag!! I was thinking that I would be able to create new presets from existing ones without having to permanently alter the default setting. I was trying to cheat the keyboard basically. >If not, than you can probably not do them by sysex either. >if you > drag a slider up quite fast, you would soon be generating tons of > sysex, having the synth flip back & forth between various modes -- > which the synth might find hard (or impossible) to digest. I noticed this from experimenting with various commands for SYSEX faders. With a couple of them my keyboard went buggy. > Well, editing the multi-timbral parameters for individual programs > should be possible (stuff like relative volume, midi channel, maybe > "keyzone", etc) -- but that's obviously not the same as editing > program parameters (filter attack time, LFO waveshape, etc.). I guess I'll have to get over this dream. It sure would be a nice feature, wouldn't it? Does Sound Diver allow you to achieve this without altering the keyboards default presets? Thanks for all the tremendous help!! It wasn't a waste I assure you. There are still other things I want to do with SYSEX and with all of your guidence I am now capable of doing. Plus, it always feels great to acquire more knowledge. Especially when it's in the profession you eat, breath and sleep:)) --Roger

David Eager Wrote: >The > alternative is to use SoundDiver and access as many variations on > patches as you have the time to program , from a SoundDiver library. This sounds interesting. I'm not really familiar with SondDiver. I'll have to go to the web site and check it out. All this can be done from within Sounddiver without having to save permanent cahnges to the synth? > Maybe what you really need is a sampler though. Yeah, I've really been thinking about getting the EXS24. They seem so versatile. Plus the advantage of being able to create your own samples. --Roger

Hi Friends! Yes it's wednesday again, and tonight the topic is soft-synth plugins. I hope we can all share some interesting info on this fascinating new area of DAW production ! Dave Eager [oink] > ART [Audio Round-Table] Every Wednesday at 8pm [PST] in > Emagic Pro studios. just log in to rocketnetwork and look for > Audio Round-Table in Emagic Pro Studio Center's public sessions > list. > And don't forget ART-European edition at 8pm [London Time] on > Fridays. > ------------------------ http://www.rocketnetwork.com ------------------------ ------------------------ http://www.emagicstudios.com ------------------------

> I AM NOT A MAN, I AM A FREE NUMBER!!!!!!!! Yes! Another Prisoner fan! Or at least someone familiar enough with the series to make fun of it. ;) I think that's what we need here on the Logic list: MORE REFERENCES TO THE PRISONER!!! :) "Be seeing you, then" Cheers John Groovey Band website mail to : chickenjohn@... http://www.grooveyband.co.uk/ East Kent Morris Minor Club web site or ; john@... http://www.ekmm.co.uk Shake The Snake web site (other band) or ; john@... http://www.shakethesnake.co.uk

Thoughts from the mind of litepipe, 24-04-2001: > > This depends on the structure of the Emu. Can you, using the Emu's >> front panel, do the things you describe (i.e. edit the multitimbral >> setup _and_ edit parameters for the constituting programs at the same >> time)? > > Well, kind of... I can acces the presets in multi-timbral mode. But the >keyboard has this "safety" feature that doesn't save any of the tweaks once >you switch to a differant preset. That is unless you save the changes which >I don't want to do. So, if I tweak the preset on channel 2 and then want to >tweak the preset on channel 8 it doesn't remember the tweak on channel 2. >Drag!! The immediate consequence of this must be that what you want is just not possible. There generally is no way to "cheat" the synth by using sysex. Remember, using sysex is (in a sense) nothing more than tweaking knobs from a remote location. If you can't do something with the physical knobs, you've got a 99.9% chance that it can't be done with sysex either. > >if you >> drag a slider up quite fast, you would soon be generating tons of >> sysex, having the synth flip back & forth between various modes -- >> which the synth might find hard (or impossible) to digest. > > I noticed this from experimenting with various commands for SYSEX faders. >With a couple of them my keyboard went buggy. Be very careful with this stuff. I've had my synth crash on me several times while experimenting with sysex and LA's environment. And 'crash' meant: synth went dead, power off, power on again, and discover that the entire memory had been erased. If in such a case you don't have a backup of the entire state of the machine (which I fortunately had), you're really in for a bad day... :-/ In general it would be a good idea to find a way to store the entire machine's memory somewhere on harddisk, before trying any 'dangerous' experiments (where building a large editing environment in LA already counts as dangerous). With the sysex knowledge you now have, you should be able to make a pushbutton in the environment that sends out e.g. an "all memory dump request" (or whatever it's called) (in LA: make a fader with a button look, a range of 0-0, and an out-definition of sysex). Put Logic in record mode, hit this button, and record the incoming sysex on a track. Save the song, and you'll have your backup... > > Well, editing the multi-timbral parameters for individual programs >> should be possible (stuff like relative volume, midi channel, maybe >> "keyzone", etc) -- but that's obviously not the same as editing >> program parameters (filter attack time, LFO waveshape, etc.). > > I guess I'll have to get over this dream. It sure would be a nice >feature, wouldn't it? Does Sound Diver allow you to achieve this without >altering the keyboards default presets? No, no way. SoundDiver does nothing more than you -- use sysex to talk to the Emu. The Emu may have some sort of editbuffer system -- i.e. the sound you're editing is in a temporary buffer. Hitting the 'write' button writes the buffer to permanent memory. Starting an edit for a new sound without hitting 'write' first, will overwrite the edits you made and load the new sound. Obviously there's no way _any_ program would be able to work around such an architecture. Software is not almighty -- far from it, in fact :-). In theory a sort of workaround _would_ be possible, but that would involve sending tons of sysex back & forth -- not something you really want, for various reasons. But a workaround could be: Reserve e.g. program locations 1-16 for editing purposes (functioning as 16 seperate edit buffers, thus overcoming the machine's 1-editbuffer limitation). Then in multitimbral mode, pick the programs you want to use. The software now should copy those 16 programs to locations 1-16. Whenever you edit one of the parameters of a sound, the original sound is left alone and the copy is edited instead. After each edit, a Write Request is sent to make the edit permanent. Etc. Picking a new program for e.g. channel 7, would copy _that_ program to slot 7, etc. You get the picture. In practice this would mean: send sysex dump request for "Organ 64", receive this dump in the computer, send it back to the Emu to program location 7 (repeat 16 times for 16 programs), then you change a parameter so: flip to program-mode, program 7 (non multitimbral), send sysex parameter change, send write request, flip back to multitimbral mode. Not very feasible... > Thanks for all the tremendous help!! It wasn't a waste I assure you. Good, glad I could be of help. And you're welcome. cheers, Hendrik Jan -- Hendrik Jan Veenstra ( h@... )

Hi Friends! Yes it's wednesday again, and tonight the topic is soft-synth plugins. I hope we can all share some interesting info on this fascinating new area of DAW production ! Dave Eager [oink] > ART [Audio Round-Table] Every Wednesday at 8pm [PST] in > Emagic Pro studios. just log in to rocketnetwork and look for > Audio Round-Table in Emagic Pro Studio Center's public sessions > list. > And don't forget ART-European edition at 8pm [London Time] on > Fridays. > ------------------------ http://www.rocketnetwork.com ------------------------ ------------------------ http://www.emagicstudios.com ------------------------

"-Peter, This is at least the third time I have informed the list of my situation, but I will say Again that, unlike most list users, I am on a corporate server, not a private ISP account" Just a suggestion- maybe this guy could set up a hot mail account and post from there? To be honest, this barry michael guy has tried to help some people, doesnt that make up for the header? On the other hand- boy, do I hate headers or footers that are more than a line long!!!!!!!!!! :-) I'd never do that myself of course. ;-) Cheers John Groovey Band website mail to : chickenjohn@... http://www.grooveyband.co.uk/ East Kent Morris Minor Club web site or ; john@... http://www.ekmm.co.uk Shake The Snake web site (other band) or ; john@... http://www.shakethesnake.co.uk

Hello,, Anyone interested in an Otari MX5050 MK3-8 1/2" 8 track recorder in very good shape please send me an email at maurice166@h... ,,I saw one just like mine sell on Ebay last month for $1,241,,Mine has a custom fit caster wheel around caddie, the original CB110 remote control unit the original manual and about 5 reel of tape,,, I am asking $900 plus shipping,, I am in Utah in case anyone can pick it up,,,You can see a picture of it at these URLs http://members.home.net/maurice166/Pictures/Otari.jpg http://members.home.net/maurice166/Pictures/Left%20Bank.jpg The remote can be seen on this one on top of the right hand rack http://members.home.net/maurice166/Pictures/Front.jpg I am also selling a 1960' Sony C500 Large Diaphragm condenser Microphone in Pristine condition,,,The Blue book on the mic is $900 in mint condition which this one is so thst is the asking price plus shipping,, Pictures are here,, http://nevenehe.homestead.com/files/Sony-1.jpg http://nevenehe.homestead.com/files/Sony-2.jpg http://nevenehe.homestead.com/files/Sony-4.jpg http://nevenehe.homestead.com/files/Sony-5.jpg http://nevenehe.homestead.com/files/Sony-7.jpg http://nevenehe.homestead.com/files/Sony-8.jpg Thanking you in advance,,,

Hi Friends! It's wednesday again, and tonight's topic is 'a general instrument set for Rocketnetwork users. Of course the forum is open to any other area you care to explore , too. Dave Eager [oink] btw, if anyone has anything they would like to see raised as a formal topic in coming weeks, please email me at oink@.... > ART [Audio Round-Table] Every Wednesday at 8pm [PST] in > Emagic Pro studios. just log in to rocketnetwork and look for > Audio Round-Table in Emagic Pro Studio Center's public sessions > list. > And don't forget ART-European edition at 8pm [London Time] on > Fridays. > ------------------------ http://www.rocketnetwork.com ------------------------ ------------------------ http://www.emagicstudios.com ------------------------

Hi Friends! It's wednesday again, and tonight's topic is 'creative partnerships with remote artists- how best can we nurture these relationships?' Of course the forum is open to any other area you care to explore , too. Dave Eager [oink] btw, if anyone has anything they would like to see raised as a formal topic in coming weeks, please email me at oink@.... > ART [Audio Round-Table] Every Wednesday at 8pm [PST] in > Emagic Pro studios. just log in to rocketnetwork and look for > Audio Round-Table in Emagic Pro Studio Center's public sessions > list. > And don't forget ART-European edition at 8pm [London Time] on > Fridays. > ------------------------ http://www.rocketnetwork.com ------------------------ ------------------------ http://www.emagicstudios.com ------------------------

This weeks Audio Round-Table was attended by BetaBrett, chillisource, janpulsford , lynnmonk, jay, DJ-Allard and oink after some chitchat about plugins, we got down to the topic at hand. Namely 'creative partnerships with remote artists- how best can we nurture these relationships?' Pretty soon we got down to ways the rocket user interface could be improved to enhance collaborative work and arrived at a list of suggestions/needs, which i've added at the end of this summary BB says, "You fellers setting around squackin' 'bout plugs when we got revolutions to get a movin'" c says, "i havent had rebirth on here for a while...reason is quite alot to be getting on with" oink says, "yup. lets get to it" oink says, "I wanted to float a discussion on building and maintaining collaborative relationships here" BB says, "Got a seed to plant?" oink says, "cause i know how hard it is to keep ones mind on unfinished work" oink says, "and so many projects just lay wasting away" BB says, "true" oink says, "and i'm wondering if there are any tools which could help support on-going teams" oink says, "like a diary or something" oink says, "I know Jan nwill mention bookmatks, which I think help a lot" BB says, "a log/diary associated with a session would be great" oink says, "they did keep your eye more on whet youd been doing" oink says, "yes that would" oink says, "what about a personal diary too" oink says, "like we have a list of our own current sessions" oink says, "but not a list of what we have contributed to" oink says, "if we could have a list of what we contributed to, and be able to prioritise it, do you think that would help ?" jp says, "k. i'm here (-; . .the main reason fro unfinished projects in my experience is because favourites were taken away" jp says, "why was that?" oink says, "I don't know" jp says, "and are they going to be reimplemented?" BB says, "Jan.... I'm going to get the RC2.5 spec tomorrow" oink says, "but I think we can build a strong argument to get them back" jp says, "everyone i talk to says that is the one thing they miss more than anything" BB says, "and I'll let you know" oink says, "oh cool" l oined the Session. jp says, "i think we've built very strong arguments for them coming back" BB says, "I think that the lose of Favs was simply bad process in dev, to be honest" jp says, "ever since they disappeared" l says, "Hi all!" BB says, "heya!" jp says, "hi lynn" oink says, "jan you are very good at collaborations, and get stuff done, do you have any tips ?" oink says, "hi lynn !" jp says, "well the navigation is another reason fro not finishing projects" l says, "wots going on ere then?" jp says, "finding them is so hard" BB says, "Jan - I'll fight to the death for Favs in RC 2.5" oink says, "lynn, the session notes spell out the agenda" jp says, "ok spoken like a true klingon" oink says, "hehe" BB says, "It is the only honorable thing to do" oink says, "but what can we do personally to keep track and maintain working relationships ?" oink says, "any good tools for that ?" BB says, "If would help if there were a way to automatically create a mini-email list for each project" oink says, "that would be good" BB says, "It could really make a diff" BB says, "shouldn't be difficult" oink says, "it is a big grind to send individual messages to 5 or 6 collaborators" l says, "that's cool...I agree" c says, "just one button named something like "mail group" on the page would be good" BB says, "That and a log attached to the session would cover most of it for me" l says, "could it be saved with the track?" BB says, "Kinda like a shared text document - it could be web-based" BB says, "all users could keep shared comments on it in one place" jp says, "afk" oink says, "if we could have that combined with favourites" l says, "I could use a larger session notes capacity to post lyrics and updates" oink says, "we would have avery good reminder system to keep us on track :)" BB says, "Well.... maybe it could heat my bedtime milk, too ;)" oink says, "or 2 levels of notes" oink says, "we had that befoer didn't we ?" l says, "and I think all contributors should be able to add to the session notes" oink says, "like studio notes and project notes" oink says, "I think they can now" l says, "no ...I haven't found it so" l says, "the button is there but it wont post" BB says, "brb" oink says, "well i did the other day, but maybe its because I have overriding perms in public sessions" l says, "nope just tried it...it lets you add to the notes and when you submit your changes they don't appear" oink says, "the notes here are at the max though" l says, "ok I'll try deleting the last word..." oink says, "try again" j joined the Session. j waves oink says, "hi " BB says, "yo " c says, "hiya " l says, "nope...nothing" l says, "Hi " says, "should i bring this in?" BB says, "?" j says, "the arrange" l says, "well thats two bugs I've found in 2 weeks ...can't be bad" c says, "think its empty " BB says, "empty now" j says, "ta engin" l says, "well I can't change the session notes :(" BB says, "Dave... can only the owners edit notes?" oink says, "it must be" l says, "that isn't any good" oink says, "or someone with sssion manager perms" oink says, " , its an empty session AFAIK" l says, "I think all contributors should be allowed to edit the session notes" j says, "sorry to wast time, but if someone could tell me what we are considering, it'd help me a lot" oink says, "I just emailed the prior chat to you " j says, "i'll check it now" l says, "especially since it allows me to type them in...thats just wasting my time if it wont post it :(" oink says, "all contributors should be, but only if they have posted, wouldn't you nthink ?" l says, "yes" BB says, "Dave - perhaps you could send the beta list a summary in addition to the transcript of this discussion - it's very very timely" jp says, "k back . .500 characters is the max allowed on session notes" oink says, "uh-oh, i had the session notes on my clipboard" l says, "thats not enough" jp says, "i tried posting lyrics" jp says, "as a way of cowriting and it doesn't work" oink says, "I suggested a separate fiels in chat for lyrics before" l says, "I know...I tried that before...oink and I even tried to post them via the markers but rocket wont post marker settings" l says, "I think they definately need to be with the session" oink says, "no it won't" j says to you, "no email here--so i figure we are talking about adding lyrics to sessions------some sort of note pad?--" l says, "yes" oink says, "so the vital thing for on-going collaboration is a better text-based side" l says, "definitely" BB says, " - it's about ways to enhance collaboration and commication " j says, "i understand--- Oink, how's the esx24 standard idea coming?" jp says, "and PLEASE get the messages working correctly" oink says, "well, so far, jan is the only one who has mailed me" oink says, "so i guess I'll have to build a proposal on her and my fellings alone" jp says, "hehe" oink says, "feelings" j says, "with specific projectives?" jp says, "nothing more than . . " j says, "hmmm" oink says, "but what you said jan is very valid" oink says, "we only need whats necessary as a songwriting tool" oink says, "I think" jp says, "yes with vst plug ins that is where rocket shines" jp says, "forget production . . . until later" oink says, "but a better sounding collection of instruments than GM" j says, "we need to make this group have power to reach the people who change the programming" oink says, "well we do a little" j says, "or add at least" D joined the Session. jp says, "really . . i sometimes wonder oink" BB says, " j - that's what the beta program is for" j says, "which beta program?" jp says, "i hope so anyway . . (-:" D says, "HIYA!" jp says, "hi dj" l says, "hi DJ" BB says, "Rocket's platinum beta program" oink says, "a report of this goes to kimberly who is in charge of PR and can bring up what we have discussed with the people who matter, and of course brett has influence on the technical side" oink says, "hi DJ" j says, "so this need to go to emagic" BB says, "We're gonna gear up for getting all this to the programmers this week" j says, "and rocket" jp says, "so BRETT messages and favourites please" BB says, "COUNT ON IT!" l says, "I don't suppose there's any way of a contributors name being automatically put on the audio tracks?" BB says, "Check out the next Query topic tomorrow" jp says, "k" oink says, "cool" jp says, "u can put your name on them in logiv" jp says, "logic . . lynn" l says, "I know but you can't rely on ppl to do that" l says, "I have tracks who I've no idea who posted them" jp says, "and in the audio window u can see their names" jp says, "as owners" oink says, "we had some discussion of that in beta" jp says, "view . .info" jp says, "etc" oink says, "it didn't go as far as it could" l says, "no once the session has left the studio some of the names aren't saved" oink says, "but it requires some sort of branding really" l says, "if ppl don't name their tracks properly all can be lost :(" oink says, "otherwise we could run out of space for other important info that need to be in a trackname" l says, "can't you get the names to stay in logic plat like they do in Rocket?" oink says, "well, if we had a session-associated mailing list" oink says, "we can send people gentle reminders to name their tracks" l says, "that would solve the problem." l says, "but the mailing list needs to be produced automatically as a person posts" oink says, "does logicrocket do that ?" oink says, "I didn't realise" l says, "yes logic rocket keeps the names" l says, "plat doesn't" BB says, "???" oink says, "hmm" l says, "yes I thought it was strange too :(" BB says, "perhaps i missed something - usernames do appear on tracks" BB says, "in plat" oink says, "not offline" l says, "yes but only whilst it is in session" BB says, "true" BB says, "lots of logistical problems there in terms of offline" c says, "seems to work offline in cubase" oink says, "on some but not all" BB says, "Steinberg is not following Rocket guidelines" j says, "what rocket guidelines?" l says, "so, failing that...what we need is an automatically generated mailing list where your name is added as you post" c says, "i like the idea of being posted when theres updates on a session..or being given the option if you want to be updated" j says, "and please tell me, if you can, what rocket guidelines are" j says, "brett" oink says, "in mac version of logicRocket I can't see usernames offline" l says, "oh?" BB says, "Sorry.... Steinberg does not use the Rocket Object Model in their implementation... the use what are known as "Custom Objects" for almost everything" j says, "now i understand--thanks" BB says, "I'll inquire about how Steinberg gets usernames to show offline" j says, "otherwise lap and cubase could talk" j says, "that'd be nice" c says, "ill need to look abit closer at that...it seems to happen "sometimes"" oink says, "yeh, i think it shows usernames sometimes and unknown other times" oink says, "even within multiple tracks from teh same user" l says, "Hey I have an idea..." BB says, "hmmm" oink says, "it is definitely automatic too" oink says, "I just opened a cubase session wher a bunch of empty tracks have a username" D says, "good" l says, "When someone posts to a session...could it automatically post a text file to a session log...showing the username, email address, track name, date and time of the post.?" j says, "so, this started talking about a notepad app that could be used to add lyric in an arrangement -- in LAP right? oink, just say yes or no--i'm trying to keep my place" oink says, "not exactly" c says, "i know its not ideal lyn but you can do a print screen for now" j says, "can you clarify?" BB says, "brb" oink says, "as far as lyrics go I suggested an extra fiels in chat for a scratch-sheet" jp says, "brb" oink says, "we are talking more general terms for that" l says, "Yes...that's wot I've started doing but I have missed a few." D says, "(A handy thing would be if the notepad info in cubase was saved to the server, so everyone could make notes, and read each others)" oink says, "same with the marker text in logic" D says, "(same for logic if not all ready happening)" l says, "That's what logic needs too" oink says, "but I think there are programming difficulties with that" D says, "Thought as much" oink says, "what we also said was that there should be more room for session notes" D says, "definitly" l says, "I'll second that" oink says, "and brett suggested a miling list associated with a session" oink says, "mailing" l says, "I suggest an automatically generated session log" oink says, "which would be good too" oink says, "it can be done, cause you get that info from your account" l says, "a session log would solve all the problems at once." l says, "except for the lyrics!" oink says, "but only after the end of the month, which is a bit late IMHO" oink says, "and that feature isn't working in my case, at the moment" D says, "Session log: great idea!" oink says, "it all will contribute to keeping collaborations more on-track" oink says, "so a summary of what we have suggested so far" oink says, "#1 bring back favourites" BB is back oink says, "#2 a mailing list associated with a session" oink says, "#3 more room for notes" l says, "With a session log info you could see the exact dat and time of the posting as well as username, Email addy and track name. A bit like the Hotline downloads log, oink." D says, "have fun mark, just ask if you have any probs" BB says, "these are all very good suggestions" oink says, "#4 anyone who has contributed be able to edit notes" oink says, "maybe 2 note fields" BB says, "yes" oink says, "one for owner one for contributors" D says, "i'm with that" BB says, "agreed" l says, "cool" D says, "initial notes, + ongoing notes for contributors" oink says, "#5 a scratch window supplementary to chat for lyrics" oink says, "like a pvt chat but everyone can see it" D says, "like a test board for lyric ideas yeah?" l says, "I think the lyrics should be within thew session" l says, "not on chat" oink says, "#6 automatic logging of the session postings" oink says, "well, if we had a scratch window, it could then be posted to session ??" oink says, "or have both" l says, "ok" oink says, "otherwise you need to refresh the browser when you add a line" oink says, "#7 was there a #7 ??" BB says, "Hey all... I have to go - very good session!" oink says, "oh #7 usernames on tracks or sequences offline" BB waves to all MixMasterMark has left the Session oink says, "or maybe a user ID #" l says, "I have a number 7 but I know its not possible..." oink says, "bye brett :)" j says, "g night brett" oink says, "what is it lynn ?" l says, "bye brett" BB says, "cya... gonna leave my chat running. Take care, all" oink says, "we aren't programmers so we don't know the limits ;)" l says, "I would like to be able to save mixes in session and post them to others who have their receive mix enabled" oink says, "sounds good" l says, "at the moment a mix can't be saved because the track is locked" oink says, "that could be associated with the session-associated mailing list" l says, "you can only post an overall level not a mix" oink says, "oh i see" oink says, "a mixdown track" l says, "not a mixdown track" oink says, "yes, i would like that too" oink says, "alternate mixes" l says, "no ...changes to the mix in session...not as an MP3" oink says, "and they be posted as a regular track" oink says, "by any user" l says, "yes you could do it that way." oink says, "and you can choose which to play" l says, "yes that would be cool" oink says, "well mix automation is just a midi track" l says, "true" oink says, "but it would take a kinda hi-hat mode" l says, "whaddya mean?" oink says, "where on automatically shuts out any other mix automation" oink says, "at the moment" oink says, "if you post a mix automation track" oink says, "it will play along with any other recorded automation" oink says, "so it will be a mess of conflicting midi" oink says, "I'm sure there must be a way to do what you suggest" l says, "I see...but you can't post a mix automation track unless it is only your tracks that you are automating" oink says, "true, but not completely" oink says, "you can take ownership of the other tracks" l says, "how?" oink says, "or your copies" oink says, "and then mix those whaich would be on the sames" oink says, "same channels" l says, "I do copies when I come to mix it down but you don't really want to go to that trouble in session" oink says, "do you not know about the unlock switch ?" l says, "no?" oink says, "oh right" oink says, "yes thats waht I mean" l says, "oh..ok" oink says, "like when you do mixdown" oink says, "but , yes it would be better not to have to go to those lengths" l says, "yes...but it isn't convenient in session...all I want to do is get a rough mix to everyone fairly quickly" oink says, "yes, agreed" l says, "some ppl have no idea about mixing and have to suffer with tracks at odd levels" oink says, "well we brought taht up on the beta list a few weeks back" l says, "can be offputting when you are recoding something" oink says, "or i did anyway" l says, "we had that problem in the session I was in tonight" oink says, "its a matter of regarding the producer as collaborator" oink says, "just like a musician" oink says, "so even a 3rd party could lay down a mix track" l says, "Music1961's vocal track was at two different levels and he wanted to hear it balanced out...I couldn't do it with his track" oink says, "which would be way handy" oink says, "I know what you mean" l says, "exactly...A producers track" oink says, "in a commercial sense it would be good too" oink says, "one could hire someone to do a mix track" oink says, "wheer a session was just a group of musicians who are novices at mixing" l says, "in fact if you could work it so the producer is a designated status on a session, he could override the post.receive mix settings of the other users" oink says, "thats what we are talking about" oink says, "the whole mix" l says, "cool" D says, "excellent" oink says, "but mix automation can do that" oink says, "just record all teh settings in teh beginning of teh automation sequence" l says, "yes. Obviously everyone had the potential to be able to do that now." oink says, "though it would be good to go one step further and be able to change plugins" oink says, "or at least add pluginds and bypass whats set" l says, "Yes I meant to include that earlier." l says, "because if you are using real time plugins its not as if you are destrying the collaborators track anyway." l says, "because you are not writing to it" oink says, "thats right" l says, "the individual can still choose to delete them afterwards" oink says, "hmm maybe reassigning tracks could do that" l says, "so you should be able to have full control over a real time mix" oink says, "one fresh set reserved for producer" oink says, "i mean channels of course" oink says, "audio objects" BB continues to collect data from the alien transmission j checks radiation levels oink says, "hmm IE is messing up on my other machine" l says, "in a public session situation...if someone is designated as the person to post rough mixes in session they should be given full control over all aspects of the mix and automation" oink says, "right, thats what we tossed around on the beta list" j says, "are you sure lyn?" l says, "yes" oink says, "not specifically for public sessions, but sessions in general" j says, "so -- i play my best solo ever" j says, "and you cut it up?" oink says, "that the owner could assign that power" l says, "if someone doesn't want to receive the mix they can just set their preferences to not receive." j says, "as if i care, long as you pay me" j says, "sort of" l says, "no...not cutting up...only mixer settings" l says, "not audio editing" j says, "i agree" j says, "those who mix should have full control of the mix" l says, "yes that's the idea...at the moment you are very restricted on doing rough mixes in session" l says, "you can't do anything to locked tracks" l says, "you cant save automation, or plugins" j says, "i think this is a matter of paying for bandwidth that allows a producer to hire music (for hire) and then has ultimate control" l says, "I don't think it even needs to be a special mode. I think anyone in session upon agreement can choose to be the mix engineer" oink says, "but that is only one aspect" BB says, "producer mode would allow track ownership exchange among other things" oink says, "we ahve groups of users here who would dearly love someone other than the session owner be able to do a mix" l says, "exactly" j says, "for the most part, as a musician, -- i either want to be bought out--for a reasonable ammount, or----i'd rathe not give my intellectual property away" BB says, "trans... mission... breaking... up..... must... check... heisenberg.... compensators" 1. 1 bring back favourites 2. 2 a mailing list associated with a session 3. 3 more room for notes 4. 4 anyone who has contributed be able to edit notes [maybe 2 note fields, one for owner one for contributors or initial notes, + ongoing notes for contributors] 5. 5 a scratch window supplementary to chat for lyrics. Like a pvt chat but everyone can see it. [And even the facility to post the lyric directly to session notes, maybe] 6. 6 automatic logging of the session postings [With a session log info you could see the exact date and time of the posting as well as username, Email addy and track name.] 7. 7 usernames on tracks or sequences offline, or maybe a user ID 8. 8 a personal 'to do' list for users

Maybe it's useful to forward Rocket wishes (well structured) to the Rocket guys? I'm sure they'd be happy to receive feedback. I know one of the rocket people is subscribed on the LUG. David Eager wrote: > after some chitchat about plugins, we got down to the topic at hand. > Namely 'creative partnerships with remote artists- how best can we > nurture these relationships?' > > Pretty soon we got down to ways the rocket user interface could be > improved to enhance collaborative work and arrived at a list of > suggestions/needs, which i've added at the end of this summary -- Joeri Vankeirsbilck joeri@... Belway Productions - http://www.belway.com List-admin Logic-users/SoundD*ver-users/Logic-TDM

Oh, beleive me , they got this. I'm just posting this stuff to the OT list in the hope that more pro-level Logic users will come and join our discussions. What we discuss has very real prospect of being implemented if its do-able. [Also the forum is a valuable resource for anyone involved, since everyone is on the same page as far as matters 'Logical' so discussions don't get bogged down with explanations of basic Logic functions or studio functions too much] Dave Eager Joeri Vankeirsbilck wrote: > Maybe it's useful to forward Rocket wishes (well structured) to the > Rocket > guys? > I'm sure they'd be happy to receive feedback. I know one of the rocket > people > is subscribed on the LUG. > > David Eager wrote: > > > after some chitchat about plugins, we got down to the topic at hand. > > > Namely 'creative partnerships with remote artists- how best can we > > nurture these relationships?' > > > > Pretty soon we got down to ways the rocket user interface could be > > improved to enhance collaborative work and arrived at a list of > > suggestions/needs, which i've added at the end of this summary >

"But my favourite thing of all is when the whole world says 'it can't be done' and someone does it." IMHO, THAT is the true essence of creativity.............. Cheers John Groovey Band website mail to : chickenjohn@... http://www.grooveyband.co.uk/ East Kent Morris Minor Club web site or ; john@... http://www.ekmm.co.uk Shake The Snake web site (other band) or ; john@... http://www.shakethesnake.co.uk

> > Every email from this sender has a free attachment...with > > a sort or raffia work base that was only put there the > > night before at about eight Oclock... > this is of course paraphrased from Monty Python "Life of Brian" Cheers John Groovey Band website mail to : chickenjohn@... http://www.grooveyband.co.uk/ East Kent Morris Minor Club web site or ; john@... http://www.ekmm.co.uk Shake The Snake web site (other band) or ; john@... http://www.shakethesnake.co.uk

Yes, may they live forever! > > > > > Every email from this sender has a free attachment...with > > > a sort or raffia work base that was only put there the > > > night before at about eight Oclock... > > > this is of course paraphrased from Monty Python "Life of Brian" > > Cheers > > John > > Groovey Band website mail to : > chickenjohn@... > http://www.grooveyband.co.uk/ > East Kent Morris Minor Club web site or ; john@... > http://www.ekmm.co.uk > Shake The Snake web site (other band) or ; john@... > http://www.shakethesnake.co.uk > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

logic-ot@yahoogroups.com wrote: > Original Message: > Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 23:49:52 +0100 > From: "John Matthews" <Groovey@...> > Subject: what barb said > > "But my favourite thing of all is when the whole world says 'it can't be > done' and someone does it." > > IMHO, THAT is the true essence of creativity.............. > Yep, that reminds me of the head of the US Patent Office who, sometime in the late 1800s, said he was going to close the office because, "Everything that can be invented, has been." Right. Regards, ...z Well, Art is Art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And East is East and West is West and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know. --Boycott Bomb Factory Products-- -- =---Seek the truth, speak the truth!---= -- L.G. "Zeek" Duff WHAT!Productions! Blue Wall Studio bluewallstudio.com 303.485.9438 ICQ#35974686

Hi Friends! It's wednesday again, and tonight's topic is surround sound. If you have experience in this area , there are others who would like to have a chat about it! Of course the forum is open to other areas you care to explore , too. Dave Eager [oink] btw, if anyone has anything they would like to see raised as a formal topic in coming weeks, please email me at oink@.... > ART [Audio Round-Table] Every Wednesday at 8pm [PST] in > Emagic Pro studios. just log in to rocketnetwork and look for > Audio Round-Table in Emagic Pro Studio Center's public sessions > list. > And don't forget the new time for ART-European edition is at 7pm [London Time](6pm GMT) on > Thursdays. > ------------------------ http://www.rocketnetwork.com ------------------------ ------------------------ http://www.emagicstudios.com ------------------------

Hi, A mate is looking to buy one ($2 to 3K) to use in the main bus or as a master effect. Any suggestions, please? Any input is highly appreciated. Best, Andy

Hi Andy, Within that price range, I think there is: * TC M3000 * Lexicon PCM91 * is the Eventide Eclipse within that price range? I have a TC M2000 which can now be found second hand for around 800 USD, I think. It's nice, but I'd love a PCM91. :-) Also, there are some "oldies" which can now be found second hand at a nice price. Personally, I still like the Roland R-880 (with controller) very much. Bye, Joeri Andy Hardwake wrote: > Hi, > > A mate is looking to buy one ($2 to 3K) to use in the main bus or as a > master effect. Any suggestions, please? Any input is highly appreciated. > > Best, > > Andy > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Joeri Vankeirsbilck joeri@... Belway Productions - http://www.belway.com List-admin Logic-users/SoundD*ver-users/Logic-TDM

Hi Friends! It's wednesday again, and tonight's topic is : "software and hardware tech support, do we all get what we need from the companies that make our tools, or do we have to rely more on support from elsewhere" Of course the forum is open to other areas you care to explore , too. Dave Eager [oink] btw, if anyone has anything they would like to see raised as a formal topic in coming weeks, please email me at oink@.... > ART [Audio Round-Table] Every Wednesday at 8pm [PST] in > Emagic Pro studios. just log in to rocketnetwork and look for > Audio Round-Table in Emagic Pro Studio Center's public sessions > list. > And don't forget the new time for ART-European edition is at 7pm [London Time](6pm GMT) on > Thursdays. > ------------------------ http://www.rocketnetwork.com ------------------------ ------------------------ http://www.emagicstudios.com ------------------------