Thoughts from the mind of Joeri Vankeirsbilck, 26-02-2002: > >Ah! Got the solution: if we freeze all the morons with cell-phones > >and walkmans, then... :-) > >Here in Belgium, we have perfect reception in 99% of the areas, EXCEPT >on trains. Very handy: wanna phone on a train? In 50% of the cases, you >can forget it 'cause there's no reception at all. Cool -- another reason to move to Belgium. Better nature, better food... and less phones on trains... :) -- Hendrik Jan Veenstra <h@...> Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

Thoughts from the mind of Kool Musick, 26-02-2002: >Emanations from the phlying phalanges of Hendrik Jan Veenstra: What?? Should I get the dictionary out now...?? > >How does the use of controller 11 (expression) as opposed to using >>controller 7 (volume) reduce midi traffic? > >Hmmm. Good question. Well... I just wondered if I might be missing something. >All CC11 does is reduce both Mental Indigestion and Digital Incompetence >(MIDI) on the part of the operator because they don't have to work anything >out on a per voice or per note basis ... just move this one controller and >everything is done!! Sure, agreed on that one. Actually, I often wish the Audio Objects had such functionality. Some extra volume 'tweaker' that allows you to control volumes in a relative manner. As when you've made an automation track which in itself is OK, but you'd just like to pump up the overall volume a bit on some parts. Now you either have to selectively drag hyperdraw points up, or insert a gainer plugin and automate that. Quite sloppy... tata, HJ -- Hendrik Jan Veenstra <h@...> Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

Thoughts from the mind of Ronald C.F. Antony, 26-02-2002: > > Why is it that 99% of all VST synths seem to be emulations of really >> old gear? Hammond B4, mellotron, Rhodes piano, Clavinet, old digital >> gear like the PPG Wave, an endless array of analog synths, etc -- the >> list goes on ad infinitum. > >Could it be that these are less CPU intensive to emulate? A K2600 with >up to 92 oscillators active, w/o even counting the processing going on >in the KDFX unit seems like it would burn serious CPU cycles.. Good point. OTOH, there _are_ things between a Mini Moog and a K2600, right? :-) I mean, a M1 uses a 68000 processor -- should be feasible to emulate on a G4, me thinks. And even then: why emulate a particular existing synth? Why not just make something "along the lines of..."? -- Hendrik Jan Veenstra <h@...> Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

From: Tony Thompson <tony@...> >Hendrik Jan Veenstra wrote: > > Slightly (un)related... something I've been wondering about a lot. > > Why is it that 99% of all VST synths seem to be emulations of really > > old gear? Hammond B4, mellotron, Rhodes piano, Clavinet, old digital > > gear like the PPG Wave, an endless array of analog synths, etc -- the > > list goes on ad infinitum. > >I hear what you're saying here, HJ, but many of these sounds have had an >appeal which is more than just nostalgia. I know -- like I said, coming from the 70ies myself, I know all about drooling over photos of Moog Modular systems, the love for Hammonds, Mellotrons and the like. It's just that there's been so many more interesting instruments since then... And what do we seem to want? Mini Moogs and analog step sequencers... >even more often to quirks of sound due to the hardware limitations >of the time (hence the to me unfathomable interest in Mellotrons, >which I can't really get into at all). :-) There's something about a melltron that no symphony orchestra has. An absolutely wonderful sound. I'm not sure I would seriously use it myself though, nowadays. That's probably my whole point... >I don't think subtractive synthesis is such a big deal as other >people obviously do. It's the only synthesis model I truly understand :-). I grasp the idea behind others of course, but I've been exposed to subtractive synthesis long enough to have it down to being sort of second nature. But hey, that's just my limitation... -- Hendrik Jan Veenstra <h@...> Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

Joeri Vankeirsbilck wrote: > > > > > >Aah, the japanese version of the Powerpuff Girls! > >http://www.cartoonnetwork.com/POWERPUFF/ > > > I didn't even know the existence of the "original" Powerpuff girls. :-) > > Isn't there anything a bit more "serious" out there? Some homepages of > something you could call "well selling japanese pop artists"? This may not be the pop category but Kitaro is pretty famous. A new age artist, if I recall. His page: http://www.op.net/~kitaro/Kitaro5.htm Ruichi Sakamoto is pretty well known in the west, and that Ken Iishi dude, but he's a DJ. :-). Yoonchi.

>Aah, the japanese version of the Powerpuff Girls! >http://www.cartoonnetwork.com/POWERPUFF/ > >ewald Actually at least one of the English Language theme songs on the on show are sung by Shonen Knife an all girl power Trio who are much more well known in the U.S. and Europe than in their native Japan. Shonen Knife are great fun and even as rudimentary as their music is, it's still way more happnin' than most of the Pop Pollution you hear around here. The fact that they had to go outside their Country to get a deal only underscores my point that the majors here are basically just a bunch of evil gangs.

>From: Tony Thompson <tony@...> > > > Slightly (un)related... something I've been wondering about a lot. >> > Why is it that 99% of all VST synths seem to be emulations of really > > > old gear? Hammond B4, mellotron, Rhodes piano, Clavinet, old digital >> > gear like the PPG Wave, an endless array of analog synths, etc -- the >> > list goes on ad infinitum. >> >>I hear what you're saying here, HJ, but many of these sounds have had an >>appeal which is more than just nostalgia. > >I know -- like I said, coming from the 70ies myself, I know all about >drooling over photos of Moog Modular systems, the love for Hammonds, >Mellotrons and the like. It's just that there's been so many more >interesting instruments since then... And what do we seem to want? >Mini Moogs and analog step sequencers... Some theories: Recent hardware synths are easy to come by therefore why emulate one when the real thing is probably sitting right there. Older stuff on the other hand can cost a fortune and is probably broken to boot. Older stuff had more unique character, if you emulate a nice moog type thing its more clear what you are doing than if you emulate the latest Roland that sounds like the latest Akai that sounds like the latest Yamaha. As has been pointed out emulating a recent synth would probably be far more CPU intensive. Older stuff usually had few voices as did the first virtual synths. The evolution of virtual synths it seems also virtually emulates the evolution of the hardware synthesizer. I expect this trend will continue and within a couple of years when the next generation of 3,4,5 ghz Macs and PCs come out there will be parity. I'll betcha in 5 years virtual instruments will have so totally surpassed hardware ones that, although people will continue to use hardware, it will be more out of a sense of retro aesthetic than anything else > >even more often to quirks of sound due to the hardware limitations >>of the time (hence the to me unfathomable interest in Mellotrons, > >which I can't really get into at all). Hendrik Jan Veenstra wrote: >:-) There's something about a melltron that no symphony orchestra >has. An absolutely wonderful sound. I'm not sure I would seriously >use it myself though, nowadays. That's probably my whole point... Mellotrons have a wonderful way of being very present in a rock mix without overpowering it where real symphonic instruments might tend to either dominate it or at the other extreme sound like "background".

>Thoughts from the mind of Ronald C.F. Antony, 26-02-2002: > >> > Why is it that 99% of all VST synths seem to be emulations of really >>> old gear? Hammond B4, mellotron, Rhodes piano, Clavinet, old digital >>> gear like the PPG Wave, an endless array of analog synths, etc -- the >>> list goes on ad infinitum. >> >>Could it be that these are less CPU intensive to emulate? A K2600 with >>up to 92 oscillators active, w/o even counting the processing going on >>in the KDFX unit seems like it would burn serious CPU cycles.. > >Good point. OTOH, there _are_ things between a Mini Moog and a >K2600, right? :-) I mean, a M1 uses a 68000 processor -- should be >feasible to emulate on a G4, me thinks. And even then: why emulate a >particular existing synth? Why not just make something "along the >lines of..."? I agree. I have high hopes for the next generation of stuff from NI. Brian clevinger is hinting about a successor to Absynth, and Kontakt is looking like it will be the BOMB.

> > > > >>Aah, the japanese version of the Powerpuff Girls! > >http://www.cartoonnetwork.com/POWERPUFF/ >> >I didn't even know the existence of the "original" Powerpuff girls. :-) > >Isn't there anything a bit more "serious" out there? You might try Looking for something by Utada Hikaru. She is a huge star here and attempted a forced entry into the US market about 2 years ago. She can sing reasonably well which makes people here crank their heads around to the "he hears his masters voice" angle and say "what's that sound". Unfortunately for her she thought that being better than 98% of the singers in her country meant that she was great rather than merely good which would have been true anyplace else but.... >Some homepages of >something you could call "well selling japanese pop artists"? There is no such phenomenon as Japanese artist selling well outside of Japan. A I take that back Sakamoto Kyu had a big hit in the 60's that is still often remade. Ue Wo Mite Arukou was release in the US under the title Sukiyaki (totally absurd title as it has nothing to do with the song). Sakamoto's version is a classic he had a wonderful voice. He died alone with something 480 other people in 1986 in what was at the time the worst plane crash ever.

> >Well, if cryogenics were as reliable as cell phones, "everybody" probably > >would run to it. > > I'm afraid you're right... The (un)usefulness (for 90+% of the > population) of these things has little to do with their popularity. > Might as well hold for cryogenics... > To be fair I was making the point that cell phones are quite useful and IMHO quite reliable. They can be annoying but they have frequently saved lives and connected people so I'm quite a proponent actually.

> LOL. Cell phones reliable? Gimme a break! Server crashing here > regularly ... > Yoonchi. Now I'm really confused. What server? Your cell phone server? Well I'm in the States, I guess it's different here. Some people are getting rid of their land lines and just using cell phones. Given how bad our phone company is (prices and service but yes I'll grant at 100% availability as opposed to 99.x% for cell) my spouse and I are thinking of the same thing.

Will Logic ever get the ability to do wav (loop) drag and drop, time stretching the way ACID or Sonar XL can? I think this feature is almost mandatory now. Take Care, Wendell C. Click on this to visit.............. http://www.cdbaby.com/carrollbrothers or http://www.cdstreet.com/artists/carrollbrothers

Thanks Dennis, the X-girl audio is very interesting in an original quirky kind of way, but I'm curious to hear just one example of the really "bad" pop you have talked about. As Frank Zappa once said "Talking about music is like eating tennis". :-) J

Yes, they are *hot* now in Holland and this is first hand information (having a 3,8 and 10 year old kid). I actually surprises me, compared to 'cool' acts like Britney Spears, Outkast and Destiny's Child they have an attitude that appeals to the "child within a child", so to speak. Also the fact that they sing in their native language (dutch) will have contributed to their success. > mentioning K3. ;-))))) > Like it or not, but K3 has been selling like crazy over here. And now > there's the MKids and they are selling even better than K3. > Looks like kid-music is doing very well these days. > Are they selling in Holland too? > > Anyway, for those wanting to know the stunning high quality of the > Belgian music market: here you go: http://www.k3.be/K3/ > Enjoy/good luck. :-))) > > Cheers, > Joeri > > -- > Joeri Vankeirsbilck > joeri@b... > > Belway Productions - http://www.belway.com > List-admin Logic-users/SoundD*ver-users/Logic-TDM

Thoughts from the mind of Dennis Gunn, 27-02-2002: >Some theories: Recent hardware synths are easy to come by therefore >why emulate one when the real thing is probably sitting right there. Ease of use? Load a song and have all synths & patches sitting right there... >As has been pointed out emulating a recent synth would probably be >far more CPU intensive. Yes, agreed. >The evolution of virtual synths it seems also virtually emulates the >evolution of the hardware synthesizer. Now there's a good thought... >I'll betcha in 5 years virtual instruments will have so totally >surpassed hardware ones that, although people will continue to use >hardware, it will be >more out of a sense of retro aesthetic than anything else Yes, you might very well be right here. OK, so we just have to wait a bit more... Of course I also realise that VSTi's in a sense are still in a sort of baby-phase (not wanting to take away from the wonderful achievements of some). It's only since a short time that computers have become powerful enough to make native synthesis a feasible concept, so indeed we should maybe just wait a couple of years to see where the trend goes. >Mellotrons have a wonderful way of being very present in a rock mix >without overpowering it where real symphonic instruments might tend >to either dominate it or at the other extreme sound like "background". And the bonus question: how come this is true (since indeed it _is_ true, and quite a good observation imo)? -- Hendrik Jan Veenstra <h@...> Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

Thoughts from the mind of Dennis Gunn, 27-02-2002: > >why emulate a particular existing synth? Why not just make >something "along >the lines of..."? > >I agree. I have high hopes for the next generation of stuff from NI. >Brian clevinger is hinting about a successor to Absynth, and Kontakt >is looking like it will be the BOMB. Ah... Absynth on steroids would be very cool :). And what is this Kontakt? Company or hyperlink? -- Hendrik Jan Veenstra <h@...> Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

Thoughts from the mind of Wilson Zorn, 26-02-2002: > > >Well, if cryogenics were as reliable as cell phones, "everybody" probably >> >would run to it. >> >> I'm afraid you're right... The (un)usefulness (for 90+% of the >> population) of these things has little to do with their popularity. > > Might as well hold for cryogenics... > >To be fair I was making the point that cell phones are quite useful and IMHO >quite reliable. I realise that that's the point you tried to make. I just misused you to make the point *I* tried to make :-). >They can be annoying but they have frequently saved lives >and connected people so I'm quite a proponent actually. Oh sure, I don't want to question their potential usefulness. I just get a bit tired at times of the advertising hype of "being reachable always & everywhere", as if that's something anyone rally _wants_. I love to be away from the phone at times, and I know many people share the same feeling. However, somehow the majority seems to buy these kind of stupid sales arguments, and so every idiot buys a cellphone, pays premium rates (much more expensive than land lines, at least over here), etc. And it all starts from the age of 10 or so -- every teenager has a cellphone. And why? I remember being 11, and I sure wasn't in need of a phone every day... (and my parents wouldn't have been stupid enough to be willing to pay my cellphone bills) But maybe I'm just getting old... And then... great that we manage to increase the number of "communication moments" by being reachable 24 hours a day, but wouldn't it be far greater if we invented an appliance that didn't increase the communication rate, but the _level_ of communication :-). I mean, seriously, 90% of all cellphone talks *is* completely moronic, isn't it? And I don't mind people having moronic conversations, but why do I have to be witness to so many of them, especially at the volume they're ususally conducted at? A few weeks ago, in the train, after a hard days work. A 4-person seat (2 next to each other, 2 opposite). I tried to read a book. The guy next to me had a walkman go 'tsk tsk tsk'. The guy opposite me had a cellphone (digital 'Fur Elise' tune, and then the ususal "I'm in the train... yeah... train!" conversation), and the 4th guy had a laptop on which he was working, producing the occasional 'bleep' whenever he mis-clicked a dialog or button or so. Once more: I TRIED to read a book... Now I don't mind walkmans in principle (own one myself), I wish I had a laptop, and I sure see the good sides of cellphones. But at times... Oh well, apart from the laptop, this discussion is way OT, even for the OT list, so let's drop it :-). -- Hendrik Jan Veenstra <h@...> Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

re: the japanese music-marketplace, someone asked: >>Isn't there anything a bit more "serious" out there? well, of course there is. for starters, one might try: ryuichi sakamoto. yoshiro hanno. toru takemitsu. nobukazi takemura. kk null (and others from the osaka 'noise' scene, a la the boredoms.....) hamza el-din (egyptian by birth, lives in tokyo.) dj krush. .....just off the top of me head..... etc. best, dt / splattercell

splattercell wrote: >re: the japanese music-marketplace, someone asked: > >>Isn't there anything a bit more "serious" out there? >well, of course there is. for starters, one might try: >ryuichi sakamoto. >yoshiro hanno. >toru takemitsu. >nobukazi takemura. >kk null (and others from the osaka 'noise' scene, a la the boredoms.....) >hamza el-din (egyptian by birth, lives in tokyo.) >dj krush. >.....just off the top of me head..... Add "Ruins" (or any other band with Yoshida Tatsuya) Otomo Yoshihide Haino Keiji Melt Bannana Hoppy Kamiyama Altered States Endo Michiro Fomoflo (I play in that one) Zeni Geba DemiSemiQuaver And a score of others, BUT Joeri asked about "well selling" and those people are all highly eclectic acts that have larger followings outside Japan than within and even in the places where they are most popular their fan basses are small groups of hard core fans. BTW the Japan noise movement (of which I was once considered a part) is no more an Osaka phenomenon than it is a Tokyo one. Like I said in my original post there are plenty of brilliant highly creative Japanese acts but they are totally ignored by the mainstream machine although most of them have members that actually eek out their livings in the japan studio world. Joari asked why so many people hate the Majors and I was simply explaining what it is I hate about them. He said there is a reason why the majors are major and I agree with that too. Here the reason is that they are totally free to manipulate the market and flood it with crap while letting the real thing starve. There is one interesting side effect though. Interesting artists here know they do not have a snowball's chance of getting a deal with the majors so they never feel even slightly tempted to compromise and the result of that is often totally full on abstract inaccessible insanity that is a wonder to behold.

Thanks to everyone for the lists of names! I only knew one: Ruichi Sakamoto. >BUT Joeri asked about "well selling" and those >people are all highly eclectic acts that have larger followings >outside Japan than within and even in the places where they are most >popular their fan basses are small groups of hard core fans. > Aha... I'm curious to know e.g. the Japanese Backstreet Boys, the Japanese Britney Spears... "things" like that. Cheap mainstream pop for mass consumption. Do the names at the site of Avex represent such acts? >Joari asked why so many people hate the Majors and I was simply >explaining what it is I hate about them. > Yes, and it's a valid argument. I still didn't have the time to reply... hopefully tomorrow. Bye, Joeri -- Joeri Vankeirsbilck joeri@... Belway Productions - http://www.belway.com List-admin Logic-users/SoundD*ver-users/Logic-TDM

dg, >Add >"Ruins" (or any other band with Yoshida Tatsuya) >Otomo Yoshihide >Haino Keiji >Melt Bannana >Hoppy Kamiyama >Altered States >Endo Michiro >Fomoflo (I play in that one) >Zeni Geba >DemiSemiQuaver thanks for that! >And a score of others, BUT Joeri asked about "well selling" right; i was just responding to someone's query, which went thusly: > >>Isn't there anything a bit more "serious" out there? >and those >people are all highly eclectic acts that have larger followings >outside Japan than within and even in the places where they are most >popular their fan basses are small groups of hard core fans. right. >BTW the >Japan noise movement (of which I was once considered a part) is no >more an Osaka phenomenon than it is a Tokyo one. ah!, okay. it's been about two years since i was there..... >Like I said in my original post there are plenty of brilliant highly >creative Japanese acts but they are totally ignored by the mainstream >machine although most of them have members that actually eek out >their livings in the japan studio world. gee, that sounds familiar..... kinda like the rest of the world, eh? >Joari asked why so many people hate the Majors and I was simply >explaining what it is I hate about them. He said there is a reason >why the majors are major and I agree with that too. Here the reason >is that they are totally free to manipulate the market and flood it >with crap while letting the real thing starve. ..... still sounds familiar. and: no-one has mentioned the sickening (and seemingly incessant) proliferation of execs/A&R folk at the majors who: a) unlike the artists they represent, have regular income, expense accts. & guaranteed medical-insurance plans, and b) often act as if *they* are -in deed- the raison d'etre for the 'music industry', and the centerpieces, therein. and: whilst i rail, here: many of the 'minors' (ie, 'independents') with whom i have regular contact ---while showily espousing a quasi-alternative to the 'majors'--- seem to be merely 'ladies-in-waiting': wanna-be's: also-ran's: etc..... >There is one >interesting side effect though. Interesting artists here know they >do not have a snowball's chance of getting a deal with the majors so >they never feel even slightly tempted to compromise still sounds somewhat familiar..... >and the result of >that is often totally full on abstract inaccessible insanity that is >a wonder to behold. excellent. best, dt / splattercell

joeri, >Thanks to everyone for the lists of names! I only knew one: Ruichi >Sakamoto. .....don't mean to be picayune, here, but - as the mis-spelling has now been repeated: that's *ryuichi* sakamoto. (a compatriot of mine, and..... i'm also a 'fan'). best, dt / splattercell

> > >>Thanks to everyone for the lists of names! I only knew one: Ruichi >>Sakamoto. >> >.....don't mean to be picayune, here, but - as the mis-spelling has now been >repeated: >that's *ryuichi* sakamoto. > :-) I knew it was wrong...I just had no clue how to write it correctly. My apologies. Cheers, Joeri -- Joeri Vankeirsbilck joeri@... Belway Productions - http://www.belway.com List-admin Logic-users/SoundD*ver-users/Logic-TDM

Dennis Gunn <dennisg@...> wrote: > >My good friends eX-girl have just embarked on their 2002 European >tour. Although they look and speak remarkably like three Japanese >girls (and that is always a good thing) eX-Girl are not actually from >Japan but are from the planet Kero-Kero where there is music but >there are no musical instruments. They have been on earth for about >for years and within three months of arriving here and picking up >musical instruments for the first time they were out doing the club >circuit. Their albums are available in Japan Europe and the US. > >They are more fun than a barrel full of rubber crutches and are truly >a must see. > >There may be more details about their exact whereabouts on their >website http://0505.net/ex-girl/. If you are interested you'd better >check it out fast though because their tour has already begun. Don't know why I even checked this out but I did.. (and you gotta love some of those song titles...) I'd especially like to see a performance of their song 'Cucumbersurrender' . it could help clarify my confusion as to what this actually means...heheh... Well, OK, probably not.... S. --

Hendrik Jan Veenstra <h@...> > >Ah... Absynth on steroids would be very cool :). And what is this >Kontakt? Company or hyperlink? NI's answer to Halion, EXS24 etc... ...ie software sampler http://www.native-instruments.net/index.php?kontakt_us S. --