--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "markdvc2002" <mark@...> wrote: > > --- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "guy lewis" <guypersonal@> wrote: > > > > Ho wdo we get this to happen Mark? > > > I think I already explained in general terms how LUG group buys work, > Guy. I appreciate and understand your curiosity and enthusiasm, but > please understand that the most important issue is if a developer wants to do one with us, and we > can work out all the details involved and reach agreement. If this is the case, then a group buy may at some stage come to fruition, and as you can see on the group buy history at logic-users.org, IMHO we have quite an impressive track record. However, if a developer isn't able to, and there can be all sorts of reasons why not, then it just won't > happen. > I have been quite involved in helping setting up quite a number of > the LUG group buys over the last four years. We talked with some companies for well over 6 months until we were able to do something. > Please also bear in mind that it is our cast iron policy to never > pre-announce any group buys. > > kind regards > > Mark Cahill > OK Mark, I think I was getting confused, it seems what you are saying is that the company themselves canvas a group buy based on interest they see themselves here? or is that that you contact them to say there is interest in a group buy, which then generates interest and numbers via the forum and hopefully enough to cover the criteria required by the product owner... So I guess I will assume that this is in progress one way or another since its not clear that anything is happening (as you say, group buys or negotiations towards group buys can not be pre-announced) and of course as you say, be patient as some of these deals take a long time. Cheers, Guy

yo

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Nick Batzdorf <recording@...> wrote: > > Sorry to be a curmudgeon, but to me this is just plain wrong. > > If I were Redmatica, no way would I stage a group buy on Keymap. I've > been working for years on a brilliant and unique program that > threatens to revolutionize sample library development. Why should I > lower the price? I can't raise it again after a group buy, in fact > it's already a problem that people have been trained to expect group > buys with bargain basement prices before they buy anything. > > Of course it's nice to get ridiculously cheap prices, but if we want > to have great software, we need to pay for it. > > Now, lest anyone think I'm a hypocrite, we did run a group buy for VI > mag on the Logic list. But that wasn't anything that's going to hurt > the industry by lowering the prices to the point that magazines can't > survive. So it's not that I'm against normal capitalistic processes > or that I don't see the other side, just that I want great software > to continue to be developed. > > > Nick Batzdorf, editor/publisher > Virtual Instruments Magazine > www.Virtualinstrumentsmag.com > 1-877 VImagzn (846-2496) > +1818/905-9101, cell 590-9101 Hi Nick, I will look up the word 'curmudgeon' later, but I think there are a number of ways I personally would justify this: 1) market penetration, get more people using your program instead of your competition and you have captured a market for upgrades which are a future revenue stream, and for additional applications you might build to create a suite of integrated applications 2) a volume buy from an accountany perspective has resulted from no direct marketing campaign which can be a significant part of the unit cost of a product (Im speaking very generally here since that is so dependent on your actual market) 3) more money, money you wouldnt get if you didnt do the group buy, and what is the additional cost? some time allocated to it by your product manager, possibly no sales commission either... maybe.... 4) market penetration... did I say this already :-) no, seriously, if you have a product that is growing in a competitive market, your strategy probably will be market growth. If you are in a growing market, your strategy will include (real) market growth. However if you are dominating a market, then maybe you wouldnt do a volume discount... but then if there were customers out there, as in the case of our example here, customer who dont have the product, of which you would hope some of them would be customers who would nt buy your product unless you did your volume discount / group buy... you might want to grab the customers instead of leaving them to go to your competition. ..cash flow would be another one... feed the coders..... Hope that helps albeit a little rambling..

My big issue is has anyone actually asked Redmatica if they would want to hold a group buy? Instead of getting everyone excited and Redmatica saying no wouldn't it be smarter to clear it with them first before collecting lists of participants? Just a thought... Stu McC

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "guy lewis" <guypersonal@...> wrote: > Hi Nick, I will look up the word 'curmudgeon' later, but I think there are a number of ways I > personally would justify this: > > 1) market penetration, get more people using your program instead of your competition > and you have captured a market for upgrades which are a future revenue stream, and for > additional applications you might build to create a suite of integrated applications Hi Guy, Redmatica have no competition in any of the software they produce as far as I know. This makes them uniquely able to charge what they think will work for them. They have released Keymap One as a cheaper option and I fully expect them to continue to sell boatloads of Keymap at the current price. I would anyway. It's an amazing triumph of a thing for sure which SHOULD sell itself. From a "marketing" perspective it remains to be seen whether this strategy will work. The demo and the videos alone should have everyone hooked at twice the price imo. All the best, Paul.

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Nick Batzdorf <recording@...> wrote: > > Sorry to be a curmudgeon, but to me this is just plain wrong. > > If I were Redmatica, no way would I stage a group buy on Keymap. I've > been working for years on a brilliant and unique program that > threatens to revolutionize sample library development. Why should I > lower the price? I can't raise it again after a group buy, in fact > it's already a problem that people have been trained to expect group > buys with bargain basement prices before they buy anything. > > Of course it's nice to get ridiculously cheap prices, but if we want > to have great software, we need to pay for it. > > Now, lest anyone think I'm a hypocrite, we did run a group buy for VI > mag on the Logic list. But that wasn't anything that's going to hurt > the industry by lowering the prices to the point that magazines can't > survive. So it's not that I'm against normal capitalistic processes > or that I don't see the other side, just that I want great software > to continue to be developed. Posted by: "guy lewis" guypersonal@guylewis.com cosmicbeach Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:19 am (PST) > Hi Nick, I will look up the word 'curmudgeon' later, It means grumpy, stubborn, a grouch :) > but I think there are a number of ways I > personally would justify this: > > 1) market penetration [snip] > 2) a volume buy from an accountany perspective has resulted from no > direct marketing > campaign which can be a significant part of the unit cost of a > product (Im speaking very > generally here since that is so dependent on your actual market) > 3) more money, money you wouldnt get if you didnt do the group buy, > and what is the > additional cost? some time allocated to it by your product manager, > possibly no sales > commission either... maybe.... [snip] I forget whether I posted this here, but a developer friend of mine likens group buys to fishing with dynamite: sure you catch a lot of fish, but the reef is gone forever. And that's exactly what we're seeing here - "Ooh, a great new program. And I'm not going to buy it! I'm going to see if there's a group buy so I can have it for a fraction of its value." Andrea isn't a "market penetration" combatant, he's an extremely talented guy who deserves to be paid for his company's extraordinary efforts. This isn't a mass-market product, it's something only an enthusiast who wants to advance the art would produce. Come on, he only wants a poxy $249 for Keymap, or an additional $130 for everything they make! If it's not worth that, then we may as well just forget it - we're only going to see music software development from large companies that subsidize it to help sell other things. (And I'm not just talking about Apple.) If you want Keymap - and anyone who makes their own sample libraries probably does - then consider the money an investment in Redmatica's software development and stop waiting for a group buy. Nick Batzdorf, editor/publisher Virtual Instruments Magazine www.Virtualinstrumentsmag.com 1-877 VImagzn (846-2496) +1818/905-9101, cell 590-9101

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "horselesspaul" <horseless.paul@...> wrote: > > Hi Guy, > > Redmatica have no competition in any of the software they produce as > far as I know. > This makes them uniquely able to charge what they think will work for > them. > They have released Keymap One as a cheaper option and I fully expect > them to continue to sell boatloads of Keymap at the current price. > I would anyway. It's an amazing triumph of a thing for sure which > SHOULD sell itself. > From a "marketing" perspective it remains to be seen whether this > strategy will work. > The demo and the videos alone should have everyone hooked at twice the > price imo. > > All the best, > > Paul. > Hi Paul, ok, understand in terms of competition, but surely theres a whole lot of exs users out there that arent wired up to Redmatica yet.. also. IMO.. the dynamite in this case will gather the fish, but the fish will still keep on coming.. unless Im wrong, Logic users arent a dying breed, there's new ones budding all the time... :O)

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Nick Batzdorf <recording@...> wrote: > > Hi Nick, I will look up the word 'curmudgeon' later, > > It means grumpy, stubborn, a grouch :) > > > but I think there are a number of ways I > > personally would justify this: > > > > 1) market penetration > > [snip] > > > 2) a volume buy from an accountany perspective has resulted from no > > direct marketing > > campaign which can be a significant part of the unit cost of a > > product (Im speaking very > > generally here since that is so dependent on your actual market) > > 3) more money, money you wouldnt get if you didnt do the group buy, > > and what is the > > additional cost? some time allocated to it by your product manager, > > possibly no sales > > commission either... maybe.... > > [snip] > > I forget whether I posted this here, but a developer friend of mine > likens group buys to fishing with dynamite: sure you catch a lot of > fish, but the reef is gone forever. > > And that's exactly what we're seeing here - "Ooh, a great new > program. And I'm not going to buy it! I'm going to see if there's a > group buy so I can have it for a fraction of its value." Andrea isn't > a "market penetration" combatant, he's an extremely talented guy who > deserves to be paid for his company's extraordinary efforts. This > isn't a mass-market product, it's something only an enthusiast who > wants to advance the art would produce. > > Come on, he only wants a poxy $249 for Keymap, or an additional $130 > for everything they make! If it's not worth that, then we may as well > just forget it - we're only going to see music software development > from large companies that subsidize it to help sell other things. > (And I'm not just talking about Apple.) > > If you want Keymap - and anyone who makes their own sample libraries > probably does - then consider the money an investment in Redmatica's > software development and stop waiting for a group buy. > > > > Nick Batzdorf, editor/publisher > Virtual Instruments Magazine > www.Virtualinstrumentsmag.com > 1-877 VImagzn (846-2496) > +1818/905-9101, cell 590-9101 > I had a 'curmudgeon' day yesterday actually.. wish I knew it was called that then.. to be totally honest with you, I had chosen not to purchase Keymap and purchase Kontakt 3 upgrade instead recently (hey, does that count as competition?). Im upgrading my studio amougst other projects so Im not in a position to consider it a cheap buy.. especially since in UK pounds it isnt such a snip :O) So, fingers crossed for a group buy, but Im in no rush :O)

I have upgraded to Log8, and now the sampler won't see my external libraries. What is the fix? Thanks much.

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Nick Batzdorf <recording@...> wrote: > > I forget whether I posted this here, but a developer friend of mine > likens group buys to fishing with dynamite: sure you catch a lot of > fish, but the reef is gone forever. > > And that's exactly what we're seeing here - "Ooh, a great new > program. And I'm not going to buy it! I'm going to see if there's a > group buy so I can have it for a fraction of its value." Andrea isn't > a "market penetration" combatant, he's an extremely talented guy who > deserves to be paid for his company's extraordinary efforts. This > isn't a mass-market product, it's something only an enthusiast who > wants to advance the art would produce. > > Come on, he only wants a poxy $249 for Keymap, or an additional $130 > for everything they make! If it's not worth that, then we may as well > just forget it - we're only going to see music software development > from large companies that subsidize it to help sell other things. > (And I'm not just talking about Apple.) > > If you want Keymap - and anyone who makes their own sample libraries > probably does - then consider the money an investment in Redmatica's > software development and stop waiting for a group buy. I'm amused at the notion that we should watch out for Redmatica's economic well being. Redmatica will do exactly what it sees to be in its own self-interest, as it should. Enthusiasts (which I assume to define most in this group) are the "spreaders of the word" to more typical users, the vast majority of whom are probably unaware of Redmatica. If Redmatica sees making a group buy to potential evangelists as economically helpful to it, they'll make the deal. If their calculation is that it won't be advantageous to them, they won't. The notion that we should not ASK is just silly. None of us will be offended if they say "no". I've lost track of how many people I've told about EXSManager, but it's in the hundreds or thousands (I'm a professor). As it happens, I bought it for full price, but the few bucks Redmatica might have lost if I'd gotten it in a "group buy" would be more than offset by the very large amount of targeted free advertising they've gotten from me. I suspect this is not an unusual dynamic for many in this group, i.e., many of us are users who come into contact with less informed users of Logic.

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "midiface" <pshackleton@...> wrote: > I'm amused at the notion that we should watch out for Redmatica's > economic well being. Redmatica will do exactly what it sees to be in > its own self-interest, as it should. Enthusiasts (which I assume to > define most in this group) are the "spreaders of the word" to more > typical users, the vast majority of whom are probably unaware of > Redmatica. If Redmatica sees making a group buy to potential > evangelists as economically helpful to it, they'll make the deal. If > their calculation is that it won't be advantageous to them, they > won't. The notion that we should not ASK is just silly. None of us > will be offended if they say "no". > > I've lost track of how many people I've told about EXSManager, but > it's in the hundreds or thousands (I'm a professor). As it happens, I > bought it for full price, but the few bucks Redmatica might have lost > if I'd gotten it in a "group buy" would be more than offset by the > very large amount of targeted free advertising they've gotten from me. > I suspect this is not an unusual dynamic for many in this group, > i.e., many of us are users who come into contact with less informed > users of Logic. > I think this is insane. All these people are waisting their time telling us how this ISN'T going to happen and why. For those people, go get in the studio with whatever you have and quit putting this whole thing down. Theres NO reason why a group buy is bad. Redmatica would get more users.....which equals more $ and the word is spread about their program. We are only talking $50-100 off the total package which isnt enough too cry over. So whos going to help make this happen? I initially had the idea and Guy was taking over with talking to Redmatica and thats the last I heard. What can I do to make this happen and whats the update on this? -Dan

On 22/10/2007, at 16:51, superdan139 wrote: > I think this is insane. All these people are waisting their time > telling us how this ISN'T going to happen and why. For those people, > go get in the studio with whatever you have and quit putting this > whole thing down. Theres NO reason why a group buy is bad. Redmatica > would get more users.....which equals more $ and the word is spread > about their program. We are only talking $50-100 off the total package > which isnt enough too cry over. So whos going to help make this > happen? I initially had the idea and Guy was taking over with talking > to Redmatica and thats the last I heard. What can I do to make this > happen and whats the update on this? > > -Dan I am in for a group buy too.. but I forgot how to do it... should I go the EXS-Users site to register? Renato Patriarca

Hi, Are there any good free drum libraries (hits only, not loops) in EXSP24 format? I mean including the .wav file or .aif - seems like there are many many out there where you have to hunt down the missing AIF files from web sites that no longer exist... Also, would like to buy some nice drum sample libraries in EXS format, but I want hits, not loops. Especially interested in electronic drums.. Also, are there any decent freeware editors out there that export to EXS 24 format? - Joel

--- Renato Patriarca <rpatriarca@terra.com.br> wrote: > I am in for a group buy too.. > > but I forgot how to do it... should I go the > EXS-Users site to register? > Hold on Renato. There is no group buy yet. Some folks here are trying to arrange one. FWIW I own EXS Manager Pro and couldn't imagine using any large EXS libraries without it. JP

At 11:39 PM 10/22/2007, you wrote: >Hi, Are there any good free drum libraries (hits only, not loops) in >EXSP24 format? I mean including the .wav file or .aif - seems like >there are many many out there where you have to hunt down the missing >AIF files from web sites that no longer exist... > >Also, would like to buy some nice drum sample libraries in EXS format, >but I want hits, not loops. Especially interested in electronic drums.. > >Also, are there any decent freeware editors out there that export to >EXS 24 format? You aren't restricted to buying or downloading things in EXS24 format. You can get a conversion program (like my companies Translator www.chickensys.com, there are others) that can convert most formats, like SoundFont, Akai, or others) to EXS24 format, which your EXSP24 can play. I always thought the Sonik Capsule Studio Drums from Sonic Reality www.esoundz.com was pretty good. There are many more. Garth Hjelte Sampler User

> On 22/10/2007, at 16:51, superdan139 wrote: > > > I think this is insane. All these people are waisting their time > > telling us how this ISN'T going to happen and why. For those people, > > go get in the studio with whatever you have and quit putting this > > whole thing down. Theres NO reason why a group buy is bad. Redmatica > > would get more users.....which equals more $ and the word is spread > > about their program. We are only talking $50-100 off the total package > > which isnt enough too cry over. So whos going to help make this > > happen? I initially had the idea and Guy was taking over with talking > > to Redmatica and thats the last I heard. What can I do to make this > > happen and whats the update on this? > > --- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Renato Patriarca <rpatriarca@...> wrote: > > I am in for a group buy too.. > > but I forgot how to do it... should I go the EXS-Users site to register? You are 100% Right

Posted by: "midiface" pshackleton@apu.edu midiface > I'm amused at the notion that we should watch out for Redmatica's > economic well being. > Hilarious, isn't it. But I suspect the reason you find my comments so amusing is that you aren't thinking about the larger context. Are you aware that Apple just lowered the price of Logic to $500 - with all kinds of other goodies? And Digidesign sells PT LE with an MBox Mini and all kinds of plug-ins for $300? I guess I have a different perspective from yours. In addition to being a user, I'm a magazine publisher who relies on a healthy music software industry for his supper - although I'm posting as a user here. Nick Batzdorf, editor/publisher Virtual Instruments Magazine www.Virtualinstrumentsmag.com 1-877 VImagzn (846-2496) +1818/905-9101, cell 590-9101

For some strange reason since upgrading to 8, the LFE on Output 6 seems to have disappeared on one of my current projects. I have checked the audio assignments, which seem to be the same as on correctly "working" projects, yet still I do not hear or see the signal on output 6 LFE. Any suggestions welcome. Thanks. Charles Lucy lucy@lucytune.com ----- Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning ----- For information on LucyTuning go to: http://www.lucytune.com LucyTuned Lullabies (from around the world): http://www.lullabies.co.uk Skype user = lucytune http://www.myspace.com/lucytuning

<Admin - this is now getting very OT for the EXS list. I suggest it best be continued on the logic OT list, thanks> --- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Nick Batzdorf <recording@...> wrote: > > Posted by: "midiface" pshackleton@... midiface > > I'm amused at the notion that we should watch out for Redmatica's > > economic well being. > > > Hilarious, isn't it. But I suspect the reason you find my comments so > amusing is that you aren't thinking about the larger context. Are you > aware that Apple just lowered the price of Logic to $500 - with all > kinds of other goodies? And Digidesign sells PT LE with an MBox Mini > and all kinds of plug-ins for $300? > > I guess I have a different perspective from yours. In addition to > being a user, I'm a magazine publisher who relies on a healthy music > software industry for his supper - although I'm posting as a user here. Nick, I'm not pushing Redmatica to do anything they don't see as being in their own self-interest. That IS the larger context. As for Apple and Digidesign, they also act in their own self-interest, and the competition benefits us all. Surely you aren't suggesting that consumers shouldn't seek the lowest prices they can legally get? Just curious: do you think the music software industry is not "healthy"? If it isn't, do you think that is the fault of users seeking lower prices? Perhaps there should be an industry-wide commission with representatives from the software companies and user groups, that SETS prices and enforces them, hmmm? And while we're at it, online vendors who sell at lower prices should be unable to order product from the central supply house through which all music software will be sold. Oh, and I forgot: software makers should have to get permission of the central licensing commission before adding new features. Just my way of saying this: trust the markets, my friend. It'll all be OK in the end. Which doesn't mean that Redmatica will thrive; perhaps they'll undersell or underprice and go under... in which case, if there is really a need for such a product, someone else will pick it up and run the business more effectively. I think I trust Andrea to make good decisions, though. Why don't you?

Sorry to go on and on about this, but I do want to make one other comment: I don't have the same negative feelings about all group buys. It's when they diminish the value of everything around that I don't like the idea. Nick Batzdorf, editor/publisher Virtual Instruments Magazine www.Virtualinstrumentsmag.com 1-877 VImagzn (846-2496) +1818/905-9101, cell 590-9101

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Nick Batzdorf <recording@...> wrote: > > Posted by: "midiface" pshackleton@... midiface > > I'm amused at the notion that we should watch out for Redmatica's > > economic well being. > > > Hilarious, isn't it. But I suspect the reason you find my comments so > amusing is that you aren't thinking about the larger context. Are you > aware that Apple just lowered the price of Logic to $500 - with all > kinds of other goodies? And Digidesign sells PT LE with an MBox Mini > and all kinds of plug-ins for $300? > > I guess I have a different perspective from yours. In addition to > being a user, I'm a magazine publisher who relies on a healthy music > software industry for his supper - although I'm posting as a user here. Posted by: "midiface" pshackleton@apu.edu midiface Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:28 am (PST) > Nick, I'm not pushing Redmatica to do anything they don't see as being > in their own self-interest. That IS the larger context. That's NOT the larger context, but of course - I'm not suggesting that Andrea is a pushover. My point is much more general. > As for Apple > and Digidesign, they also act in their own self-interest, and the > competition benefits us all. That is, unless there's very little competition because companies like Redmatica aren't able to compete with large companies subsidizing their software development with hardware sales. Hopefully that won't happen, but it is a danger. And I say that as an enthusiastic user of both Logic and Pro Tools. > Surely you aren't suggesting that consumers shouldn't seek the lowest > prices they can legally get? Yes and no. Obviously we're not going to pay companies out of the goodness of our hearts - we're all going to do the research and find the best deal. But the best price isn't always the best deal. Look what's happened to music retail, for example. Or music journalism, for that matter. Consolidation has its upsides and downsides. > Just curious: do you think the music software industry is not > "healthy"? If it isn't, do you think that is the fault of users > seeking lower prices? It's thriving at the moment, and I want to see that continue. > Perhaps there should be an industry-wide > commission with representatives from the software companies and user > groups, that SETS prices and enforces them, hmmm? And while we're at > it, online vendors who sell at lower prices should be unable to order > product from the central supply house through which all music software > will be sold. Oh, and I forgot: software makers should have to get > permission of the central licensing commission before adding new > features. > Just my way of saying this: trust the markets, my friend. It'll all > be OK in the end. The markets have some blind spots, and things go very wrong when money rules everything - as we see in the US right now. > Which doesn't mean that Redmatica will thrive; > perhaps they'll undersell or underprice and go under... in which > case, if there is really a need for such a product, someone else will > pick it up and run the business more effectively. I think I trust > Andrea to make good decisions, though. Why don't you? Andrea is a big boy, yes. My diatribe was more to tell people to just go out and buy the damn thing, not to wait for a group buy. Nick Batzdorf, editor/publisher Virtual Instruments Magazine www.Virtualinstrumentsmag.com 1-877 VImagzn (846-2496) +1818/905-9101, cell 590-9101

Hi All, I find the new layout of the EXS editor - with everything being displayed horizontally instead of vertically - a bit confusing. I suppose I'll get used to it. For the first time in L8, I tried editing the start point of a zone with a sample loaded in, and it didn't open up the Sample Edit Window like it used to in previous versions. Is there a way to get this old behavior back? Or are we stuck with editing start/end and loop point parameters numerically? -------- Eli Krantzberg http://www.elikrantzberg.com http://www.nightshiftorchestra.com

On Oct 25, 2007, at 5:37 PM, Eli Krantzberg wrote: > For the first time in L8, I tried editing the start point of a zone > with a sample loaded in, and it didn't open up the Sample Edit Window > like it used to in previous versions. Is there a way to get this old > behavior back? Or are we stuck with editing start/end and loop point > parameters numerically? Eli, Just control click, or right click on the start or end parameter and you get the option. Take care, Chris

On Oct ,26, 2007, at 12:48 AM, chris hellstrom wrote: > Just control click, or right click on the start or end parameter and > you get the option. Hi Chris, Thanks for that. I still haven't gotten to the point yet where checking the contextual menus is second nature! -------- Eli Krantzberg http://www.elikrantzberg.com http://www.nightshiftorchestra.com

i had the same problem. Make sure you actually do have 7.2.1 because that was the update that added recycle support to Logic for intel macs.