On 21/08/2005, at 1:29 AM, careyparder wrote: > I am not a heavy user of the EXS but I did like some of the drum > samples I got from www.wizoosounds.com and especially since you can > purchase individual kits for under $10.00. I have the Platinum 24 Drum Pack and highly recommend it. For what they are they are relatively inexpensive. <http://tinyurl.com/c9yc8>; Plus you can download them rather than waiting for the CD and pay for shipping. michael

Hi. Two things. One is Kontakt2 won't cost that list price thru a music store. The second is it doesn't matter what sampler you use so much. If you have the samples and create your own kit in the ex you don't need another sampler. You might want to check out (pronounced BUY) the August issue of a UK mag called Computer Music. There is a free version of BFD with one kit that sounds very natural. You can't load other samples into it but it works just fine stand alone or within Logic. Also the drums that come with K2 are not that great. Also you can't load them into anything other then NI stuff. Also you pretty much get what you pay for. BFD is great but you have to be able to load something like 6-7GB into your comruters HD. And you need to purchase the software that allows you to use it. In otherwords. You need to purchase the engine. Then you have the item. It comes with kits but if you want others you have to buy them. After all is said and done you won't be getting something cheaper then K2. I use all the NI stuff as well as Reason 3. I love them all for different things. My advise. Learn how to use the EX and get a bunch of samples. You can find them all over the place. Layer them and go for broke. Just a thought. T

> Hi Wayne, > > I am not a heavy user of the EXS but I did like some of the drum > samples I got from www.wizoosounds.com and especially since you can > purchase individual kits for under $10.00. > > Cheers, > Carey Thanks for the tip Carey, I'm on my way... Wayne

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Lenny Stearns <lens@p...> wrote > I was going to recommend the Wizoo Mixtended Drums as well, but I wasn't > sure if they were still being offerred. I went to www.wizoo.com and > didn't see them, but I found them at the URL that Carey supplied. They > sound quite good and the price is very reasonable for the CD. > > Regards, > Lenny > Thanks Lenny, I knew you guys would have some ideas. Wayne

BCF-2000 working great over here. You need to set up your MIDI properly in Audio/MIDI Setup (BCR as a MIDI interface, then another BCR "controller" attached to MIDI Port 1 of that interface) to get it to work. You also need to update the BCR to version 1.07 or higher of the firmware - then you can start it up in "Logic Control" mode to emulate the Mackie Logic Control - Logic sees it as such and it works just fine. -- Mibrilane

> > On 21/08/2005, at 1:29 AM, careyparder wrote: > > > I am not a heavy user of the EXS but I did like some of the drum > > samples I got from www.wizoosounds.com and especially since you can > > purchase individual kits for under $10.00. > --- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Michael Scheurer <lists@m...> wrote: > I have the Platinum 24 Drum Pack and highly recommend it. For what > they are they are relatively inexpensive. > > <http://tinyurl.com/c9yc8>; > > Plus you can download them rather than waiting for the CD and pay for > shipping. > > > michael ........Yaaaaaa I like that. I'll let everyone know in a few days if I find some good stuff. I have to admit that this can be fun. I love hunting. Wayne

> >How do I route the attack of env 2 to my mod wheel? > > Set a modulator to > > Ctl #1->[no via]->Env2 Attack (Amp), adjust the amounts to taste > > (May I suggest working with the EXS a bunch to discover everything > that it > can do? Playing with the parameters won't blow up anything, and > it's a good > learning experience. Nothing wrong with asking questions, but this > is very > simple and it's right in front of your eyes on the interface.) Hi there, I've been working with Logic Pro 7 and I find it to be very complex. I am trying to find ultrabeat and I don't know where to look. Can you help?

I won't be able to answer your questions about good natural drums in EXS format, but when it comes to drums, I can only recommend getting a dedicated drum sampler. Not only do they usually come with a good array of properly multisampled and mapped kits - they will also make your life easier in a lot of other ways. The main thing being that tweaking of individual drum instruments inside a kit is WAY easier than doing so inside the EXS. An example: You may want to route your velocity to sample start. That way, say, a snare would only playback with the full "twang" when being hit hard. In the EXS such a modulation is only possible for the complete set (and it might not make much sense on quite some instruments but snare, toms and kicks). In almost any dedicated drum sampler you can easily set up these sorts of modulations on a "per key/instrument" base. Or well, another one: Try to detune a single snare or whatever. In the EXS you'd have to enter the instrument editor, select the appropriate zone, alter the tuning and save the instrument under another name. This is even getting worse when dealing with velocity layered snares as you'd have to do the tuning job for each zone. On a dedicated drum sampler you'd just adjust it after selecting the appropriate "pad" and be done. No need to resave anything either as everything will be saved with your songfile. The same goes for using multiple outs. You'd have to alter your EXS patches and be stuck with the output assignments unless you'd resave the patch again. On a dedicated drum sampler this is done easily and won't require resaving. As for now, there's two drum samplers I could recommend: NIs Battery 2 or Linplugs RMIV. As said, both are coming with a good assortment of kits as well. If you got some time, you may want to wait for FXpansions Drum 9, which might appear end of the year or so. Should be the "mother of all drumsamplers" if I got the teasers right. In any case, for anything drum/percussion related I couldn't live without a dedicated sampler anymore. And btw, while both Kontakt and HALion do a better job on things such as altering samples or assigning them to different outputs, they still don't come close to the comfort of using a drum sampler. Regards, Sascha

At 20:58 Uhr +0200 21.08.2005, Sascha Franck wrote: >As for now, there's two drum samplers I could recommend: NIs Battery >2 or Linplugs RMIV. As said, both are coming with a good >assortment of kits as well. I wholeheartedly agree. The EXS does have one very important advantage over at least Battery (don't know the RMIV): the performance hit to the CPU and the memory usage is nowhere as high as with Battery. I usually end up making audio out of everything except the EXS tracks. Makes working just so much faster. But then again. Not everyone is stuck on a Powerbook like me. :-) Cheers Hans

> when it comes to drums, I can only recommend getting a dedicated drum sampler. Agreed... it would appear that as I venture tentatively into the world of s/w samplers (such as EXS, Kontakt... whatever), they don't seem well suited to drums and percussion.... or at least, solutions to simple requirements seem very convoluted and long-winded (witness the recent thread on hi-hat muting!). Ironically, hardware samplers such as the Akais retained many of their facilities purely to retain the ability to obtain strict control over drums and percussion - individual envelopes per sample, separate filtering per sample, assigning individual sample to different audio outputs, panning, FX send, tuning and so on of individual samples, the 'mute-group' function discussed recently, etc.. It would have made these lumps of hardware far more appealing and easier to use if envelope, filtering and so forth had been made 'global' so that edits/changes affected all keygroups/zones/layers (call them what you will) equally as on a s/w sampler but this would have been a dead lost and totally useless for drums. However, it would appear that this is the paradigm adopted by s/w sampler manufacturers - one change fits all. Of course, roll your sleeves up and it's possible to fudge certain drum-related facilities but it seems you hve to leap through several complicated hoops to achieve what would take just seconds on a 1990 Akai sampler (there's 'progress' for you!)! This 'global' approach to editing is ideal for *instrumental* sounds where all the samples are essentially the same but it is lacking for drums and percussion etc.. Software drum samplers such as BATTERY, on the other hand, seem to handle things much better in this respect as Sascha describes. Or buy a hardware sampler that can handle both equally ;-) Best regards, Steve http://www.hollowsun.com

> dead lost SP : dead loss Best regards, Steve http://www.hollowsun.com

On 22/08/2005, at 4:58 AM, Sascha Franck wrote: > I won't be able to answer your questions about good natural drums in > EXS format, but when it comes to drums, I can only recommend > getting a dedicated drum sampler. > Not only do they usually come with a good array of properly > multisampled and mapped kits - they will also make your life easier in > a > lot of other ways. > The main thing being that tweaking of individual drum instruments > inside a kit is WAY easier than doing so inside the EXS. > > An example: You may want to route your velocity to sample start. That > way, say, a snare would only playback with the full "twang" > when being hit hard. In the EXS such a modulation is only possible for > the complete set (and it might not make much sense on quite > some instruments but snare, toms and kicks). In almost any dedicated > drum sampler you can easily set up these sorts of modulations > on a "per key/instrument" base. > > Or well, another one: Try to detune a single snare or whatever. In the > EXS you'd have to enter the instrument editor, select the > appropriate zone, alter the tuning and save the instrument under > another name. This is even getting worse when dealing with velocity > layered snares as you'd have to do the tuning job for each zone. On a > dedicated drum sampler you'd just adjust it after selecting > the appropriate "pad" and be done. No need to resave anything either > as everything will be saved with your songfile. > > The same goes for using multiple outs. You'd have to alter your EXS > patches and be stuck with the output assignments unless you'd > resave the patch again. On a dedicated drum sampler this is done > easily and won't require resaving. > > As for now, there's two drum samplers I could recommend: NIs Battery 2 > or Linplugs RMIV. As said, both are coming with a good > assortment of kits as well. > If you got some time, you may want to wait for FXpansions Drum 9, > which might appear end of the year or so. Should be the "mother of > all drumsamplers" if I got the teasers right. These are all good points Sascha that apply to esx and other generic sampler instruments - except in one setting which happens to be the way I use EXS as drum sampler most often. One of the Libraries I use a bit is the Wizoo Mixtend mentioned elsewhere in this thread. It's a typical multiple velocity sampled drum instrument with dry, overhead and room sample sets inculded. I load up multiple EXS instances with the same kit loaded. One for each drum sound I'm using. It doesn't take up any more ram to load multiple instances of the SAME kit as many times as you like - nor does it use up much more CPU than if you have one loaded. By working one drum sound per instrument almost all the almost all the criticisms you level at using EXS as drum sampler are avoided. Unless you want to build a custom kit you never have to open the editor. If you want to do a custom modulation routing for one of the sounds, simply do it in the EXS instrument panel and save the song. These settings get saved and you don't have to worry about saving a custom EXS instrument. To change the tuning or even envelope of and individual sound - just do on the instrument pointing to that sound. Not even BFD (which I love) can change the envelope of a specific sound. Once again all adjustments are saved with the song. No need to save a custom EXS instrument. Working this way it's much quicker to set up individual processing, pan and level per sound. You don't have to mess with multiple outputs - and if you're working with Logic pre ver7 you won't have to worry about plugin delay compensation when working this way either - which is kind of why I developed this technique. When working with multiple output instruments I also hate having to assign Aux objects to tracks in the arrange window just so I can see and edit them in my track mixer - another reason I prefer this EXS technique and miss it when I work with other drum samplers. I've tried working this way with BFD but it just chokes the computer and doesn't seem to have the same intelligence as EXS in this way. There are other features I like about BFD over working in EXS for drums like the ambience control being more intuitive. But there's nothing you can do in BFD that you can't do in EXS. It may be a little easier but that's all - and I do miss being able to use some of the aforementioned techniques available when using EXS for drums. Haven't really worked with DFH or Kontact which get mentioned a lot and seem well liked so I can't say about them. Kind regards ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Paul Najar Jaminajar Music Production www.jaminajar.com

On 21/08/2005, at 11:32 AM, Siguard Lyles, Jr. wrote: > I am trying to find ultrabeat and I don't know where to look. Hi Siguard, Set up a virtual instrument in the Environment and select Ultrabeat in the I/O box (Stereo>Logic>Ultrabeat). Andris

On 22/08/2005, at 8:52 AM, Hollow Sun wrote: >> when it comes to drums, I can only recommend getting a dedicated drum >> sampler. > Agreed... it would appear that as I venture tentatively into the world > of > s/w samplers (such as EXS, Kontakt... whatever), they don't seem well > suited > to drums and percussion.... or at least, solutions to simple > requirements > seem very convoluted and long-winded (witness the recent thread on > hi-hat > muting!). > > Ironically, hardware samplers such as the Akais retained many of their > facilities purely to retain the ability to obtain strict control over > drums > and percussion - individual envelopes per sample, separate filtering > per > sample, assigning individual sample to different audio outputs, > panning, FX > send, tuning and so on of individual samples, the 'mute-group' function > discussed recently, etc.. > > It would have made these lumps of hardware far more appealing and > easier to > use if envelope, filtering and so forth had been made 'global' so that > edits/changes affected all keygroups/zones/layers (call them what you > will) > equally as on a s/w sampler but this would have been a dead lost and > totally > useless for drums. Some hardware samplers offered both individual edits and per instrument or layer. The Ensoniq OS. Still the best sampler OS I've ever seen. > However, it would appear that this is the paradigm adopted by s/w > sampler > manufacturers - one change fits all. Of course, roll your sleeves up > and > it's possible to fudge certain drum-related facilities but it seems > you hve > to leap through several complicated hoops to achieve what would take > just > seconds on a 1990 Akai sampler (there's 'progress' for you!)! Once again, why not offer both? Software designers are not always musicians or people who fully understand the real world demands of these devices. Even back in the hardware sampler days the Ensoinq OS was by far the most flexible but was often considered the poor cousin to the Akai's & Emu's because of it's smaller ram and number of voices. Back then the average user did not pick up on how much more advanced the OS was and how that could be an advantage and I feel the same is true of the current crop of devices and users now. Only a small percentage appreciate the subtle benefits of such intricacies. > This 'global' approach to editing is ideal for *instrumental* sounds > where > all the samples are essentially the same but it is lacking for drums > and > percussion etc.. Software drum samplers such as BATTERY, on the other > hand, > seem to handle things much better in this respect as Sascha describes. > > Or buy a hardware sampler that can handle both equally ;-) If you look at my previous post in this thread you'll see I offer as a tip a different approach to drum programming and EXS use that simply gets around all the limitations you describe between hardware and current software samplers. Kind regards ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Paul Najar Jaminajar Music Production www.jaminajar.com

Paul Najar wrote: > I load up multiple EXS instances with the same kit loaded. One for each > drum sound I'm using. It doesn't take up any more ram to load multiple > instances of the SAME kit as many times as you like - nor does it use > up much more CPU than if you have one loaded. By working one drum sound > per instrument almost all the almost all the criticisms you level at > using EXS as drum sampler are avoided. All valid points too - just a bit uncomfortable for realtime playing, which is how I do most of my drum tracks (I usually only program rolls, ghost strokes and whatever). > To change the tuning or even envelope of and individual sound - just do > on the instrument pointing to that sound. Not even BFD (which I love) > can change the envelope of a specific sound. Yeah, sure - but as said, for realtime playing it's tough to deal with. And btw, I don't consider BFD being a drum sampler. It's more something like a ROMpler. Both Battery and RMIV offer individual envelopes for each cell. And for what it's worth, I like using individual outs in Logic - to me it's less bloated than in, say, Cubase SX. And of course it's the way to go in case you're into realtime drum programming/recording. Cheers, Sascha

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "Sascha Franck" <S.Franck@g...> wrote: > I won't be able to answer your questions about good natural drums in EXS format, but when it comes to drums, I can only recommend > getting a dedicated drum sampler. > Regards, > Sascha Hi Sascha, thank you for your long and considered post. By the way I saw the add for the FXpansions Drum 9 (Mac.... Ya!) I was reading and drooling over the pc drum sampler they have now. The Drum 8xx8 something, and what a drag to find out it's only for pc. It's also only $99.00USD looks like a steal and I will be looking out for the drum 9 for sure. Last night I joined www.wizoosounds.com and purchased four items: Upright Bass (EXS24) MD Starclassic Kit (EXS24) Pagelli 5 String Fretless (EXS24) Latin Pop Kit (EXS24 The fretless has some kind of problems but the other thing was that the drums (Not general midi) and do sound good, are not finding one of the samples for the 16 tom. Maybe a bad download. Anyway while working with these drums I was shocked to see 12 instances of the exs without any noticeable drain on my system. I just love that. To me, this is my preferred way of working... one drum on one track. I also love my RMX and back beat but it has it limitations as well so when all else fails, whip out the exs and some jazz midi files or just play it in if you have to but I am getting tired of that... It seems to me that many of the products are geared to either back beat, hip hop, loops or what ever but if you need to do something very creative, and by that I mean free intro's going into a bla bla bla and then to the main groove.. I've never found what I needed in the packages I've come across so, roll your own it is. I just wish I could return some of the products I've purchased only to find out that they really forgot to tell you that... OH! it won't do that.. I rant. Wayne

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Hollow Sun <steve@h...> wrote: > > when it comes to drums, I can only recommend getting a dedicated drum sampler. > Agreed... it would appear that as I venture tentatively into the world of > Steve > http://www.hollowsun.com Everyone marches to the sound of a different sampler hu! ;-)

Hans Hafner wrote: > The EXS does have one very important advantage over at least Battery > (don't know the RMIV): the performance hit to the CPU and the memory > usage is nowhere as high as with Battery. Hm, must be a Mac issue then. On PC the CPU overhead of Battery is almost comparable to the EXS. Besides, I'm usually using FXpansions DR-008 anyways, which is even more efficient (unfortunately it's PC only... let's just hope for Drum 9, which should be DR-008 compatible and x-platform). Regards, Sascha

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Paul Najar <paulnajar@j...> wrote: > On 22/08/2005, at 4:58 AM, Sascha Franck wrote: > These are all good points Sascha that apply to esx and other generic > sampler instruments - except in one setting which happens to be the way > I use EXS as drum sampler most often. > > Kind regards > ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > Paul Najar > Jaminajar Music Production > www.jaminajar.com Hi Paul, I think it was you that recommended www.wizoosounds.com Can't keep track these days, getting on you know ;-) anyway I have been on a trip since I posted here yesterday I think but it seems like a week... I've learned a lot since anyway. I got the MD Starclassic Kit (EXS24) It's not general midi but it's not hard to transpose the individual tracks in Logic to set up the drums. Some of the sounds like cymbals will have 3 or 4 zones of tonal differences and responses so you just pick the one you want. I agree with you about the way you like to work with the exs, that's about the way I've been working lately but using rmx in kit mode and committing to audio each separate track. If later in the mix you realize the something needs changing you just redo it at the end. It keep things humming along. And... the search continues. Wayne

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Hans Hafner <hanshafner@g...> wrote: > At 20:58 Uhr +0200 21.08.2005, Sascha Franck wrote: > >As for now, there's two drum samplers I could recommend: NIs Battery > >2 or Linplugs RMIV. As said, both are coming with a good > >assortment of kits as well. > > I wholeheartedly agree. > > The EXS does have one very important advantage over at least Battery > (don't know the RMIV): the performance hit to the CPU and the memory > usage is nowhere as high as with Battery. > > I usually end up making audio out of everything except the EXS > tracks. Makes working just so much faster. But then again. Not > everyone is stuck on a Powerbook like me. :-) > > Cheers > Hans Hi Hans, wow do I agree with that as I just found out. I just can't believe how many instances the exs will let you have. Gotta love that. Wayne

At 08:58 PM 8/21/2005 +0200, you wrote: >I won't be able to answer your questions about good natural drums in EXS >format, but when it comes to drums, I can only recommend >getting a dedicated drum sampler. >Not only do they usually come with a good array of properly multisampled >and mapped kits - they will also make your life easier in a >lot of other ways. >The main thing being that tweaking of individual drum instruments inside a >kit is WAY easier than doing so inside the EXS. > >An example: You may want to route your velocity to sample start. That way, >say, a snare would only playback with the full "twang" >when being hit hard. In the EXS such a modulation is only possible for the >complete set (and it might not make much sense on quite >some instruments but snare, toms and kicks). In almost any dedicated drum >sampler you can easily set up these sorts of modulations >on a "per key/instrument" base. > >Or well, another one: Try to detune a single snare or whatever. In the EXS >you'd have to enter the instrument editor, select the >appropriate zone, alter the tuning and save the instrument under another >name. This is even getting worse when dealing with velocity >layered snares as you'd have to do the tuning job for each zone. On a >dedicated drum sampler you'd just adjust it after selecting >the appropriate "pad" and be done. No need to resave anything either as >everything will be saved with your songfile. > >The same goes for using multiple outs. You'd have to alter your EXS >patches and be stuck with the output assignments unless you'd >resave the patch again. On a dedicated drum sampler this is done easily >and won't require resaving. > >As for now, there's two drum samplers I could recommend: NIs Battery 2 or >Linplugs RMIV. As said, both are coming with a good >assortment of kits as well. >If you got some time, you may want to wait for FXpansions Drum 9, which >might appear end of the year or so. Should be the "mother of >all drumsamplers" if I got the teasers right. > >In any case, for anything drum/percussion related I couldn't live without >a dedicated sampler anymore. >And btw, while both Kontakt and HALion do a better job on things such as >altering samples or assigning them to different outputs, >they still don't come close to the comfort of using a drum sampler. > >Regards, >Sascha > > > > > > >____________________________________________________________________ > EXS* Users Group >- To UNSUBSCRIBE: email exs-users-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >- EXS/Logic FAQ: ><http://logicfaq.omega-art.com/>http://logicfaq.omega-art.com/ >- Free legal samples: ><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exs-users/links/>http://groups.yaho o.com/group/exs-users/links/ >- To contact list admins, email exs-users-owner@yahoogroups.com > > > >---------- >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > * Visit your group > "<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exs-users>exs-users"; on the web. > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * > <mailto:exs-users-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>exs- users-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > >---------- Garth Hjelte Sampler User

On 22/08/2005, at 10:01 AM, Sascha Franck wrote: > Paul Najar wrote: >> I load up multiple EXS instances with the same kit loaded. One for >> each >> drum sound I'm using. It doesn't take up any more ram to load multiple >> instances of the SAME kit as many times as you like - nor does it use >> up much more CPU than if you have one loaded. By working one drum >> sound >> per instrument almost all the almost all the criticisms you level at >> using EXS as drum sampler are avoided. > > All valid points too - just a bit uncomfortable for realtime playing, > which is how I do most of my drum tracks (I usually only > program rolls, ghost strokes and whatever). > >> To change the tuning or even envelope of and individual sound - just >> do >> on the instrument pointing to that sound. Not even BFD (which I love) >> can change the envelope of a specific sound. > > Yeah, sure - but as said, for realtime playing it's tough to deal with. > And btw, I don't consider BFD being a drum sampler. It's more > something like a ROMpler. > Both Battery and RMIV offer individual envelopes for each cell. > > And for what it's worth, I like using individual outs in Logic - to me > it's less bloated than in, say, Cubase SX. And of course it's > the way to go in case you're into realtime drum programming/recording. Using the multiple instances approach you can still real time play on just one instance and then use the "demix by note pitch command" or if you've done some sound edits and want to do your real time performance with those sounds in place you can use the rarely mentioned "Mapped Instrument" and do it very elegantly. Sure it's a bit more environment cabling but not much really and using it opens up another set of possibilities not possible without. Kind regards ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Paul Najar Jaminajar Music Production www.jaminajar.com

Sorry for the long quoted nothing message... =( stupid email client.... Garth Hjelte Sampler User

> Some hardware samplers offered both individual edits and per instrument > or layer. The Akais being no exception since the S900 - you can edit at the individual keygroup level with each one tailored in detail for each sample (or samples) it contains (ideal for drums/percussion/etc.) or you can switch to EDIT ALL to edit 'globally' (ideal for 'instruments'). > If you look at my previous post in this thread.... I did. Seemed rather long-winded and convoluted compared with a simple 'mute group' function Best regards, Steve http://www.hollowsun.com

On 22/08/2005, at 10:10 PM, Hollow Sun wrote: >> If you look at my previous post in this thread.... > I did. Seemed rather long-winded and convoluted compared with a simple > 'mute > group' function I'm not sure specifically what you're referring to here. Muting hi hats? If it is then it could not be more simple. Just mute the track or instrument playing the hats. Regards ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Paul Najar Jaminajar Music Production www.jaminajar.com