On 27 Jul 2005, at 15:43, Julie Larson wrote: > Hi Michiel, > I updated the Emperor and used EXS manager. It still says I'm > missing a sample. EXS manager agrees. 31s emp A0.wav. Is there a > way to get this sample? > > Thanks, > julie I had the same problem, ended up getting a new disk from Michiel. Paul

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Garth Hjelte <garth@c...> wrote: > At 05:48 PM 7/30/2005 +0000, you wrote: > > When I saw the word "prize", of course I took the time to check this. Of course I may have been fibbing about the prize bit :) > I can confirm your results, it's not the oldest note but I guess there's a > preference if a new note needs more voices - it'll only allocate for the > present requirement. It's almost "newest note" but not quite. Ok, so it's not just me. Phew! Interesting. It also means the old polyphonic hihat trick as posted hee and on the LUG before has never and will never work. So (unfortunately) I guess it's something I have to live with... > BTW, I tried this with the global voices and the group voices params. Yep, me too, it works the same for both. > So it's a bug in the EXS IF Apple claims oldest note behavior. Otherwise > it's part of the feature set. I don't think they claim anything, it's just odd behaviour :( > Your workaround would be to merge the samples > together and stick with 1-voice normal cutoff behavior. The whole reason for following the tip was in order to *not* be bound by the 1-voice normal cutoff. It's a shame because this whole live drum setup is working beautifully apart from those *nasty* monophonic closed hats. Yuk! :( I can have poly hats but not be able to close them with a closed hat, so either way it's not a satisfactory compromise. I will investigate some other solutions, and if anyone has any brainwaves, please do shout... :D Thanks Garth though, I appreciate the time you've taken to respond. I can now stop tearing my hair out!

> It's a shame because this whole live drum setup is working beautifully apart > from those *nasty* monophonic closed hats. Yuk! First off, I am not an EXS user so I may be speaking out of turn here but.... Can't you have a 'polyphonic' closed hat on a spare key - use that for your main closed hat pattern (i.e. without 'machine gun' re-triggering) but use the monophonic closed hat just to 'close' the open one? And doesn't EXS have a 'mute group' function where the samples are still polyphonic (i.e. voice circulating with no 'machine gun' re-triggering) but triggering another sample in that mute group will cut the other off?! Best regards, Steve http://www.hollowsun.com

As some of you may know, Dr Robert Moog was recently diagnosed with an inoperable brain tumour :-( Dr Moog (or 'Bob' as he is more widely known) is arguably *the* most important figure in this industry and brought us the synthesiser as we know it today. His designs have influenced almost every keyboard product since from 'me-too' analogue monosynths to polysynths... even the samplers and virtual instruments we use today pretty much have the same voice architecture as the seminal designs he was pioneering as long ago as the mid-60s. Bob has recently been enjoying a renaissance with the release of his fabulous 'Voyager' and MoogerFooger products not to mention his tireless support for Theremins. He and his wife and family are being very stoic about this tragic situation and you can read more about their situation at: http://www.caringbridge.com/cb/inputSiteName.do?method=search&siteName=b obmo og You can sign a guestbook to pass on your thoughts to him - even make a donation to the charity website hosting his journal. Thanks for listening. Best regards, Steve http://www.hollowsun.com

> > The whole reason for following the tip was in order to *not* be bound by the > 1-voice > normal cutoff. It's a shame because this whole live drum setup is working > beautifully apart > from those *nasty* monophonic closed hats. Yuk! :( > > I can have poly hats but not be able to close them with a closed hat, so > either way it's not > a satisfactory compromise. I will investigate some other solutions, and if > anyone has any > brainwaves, please do shout... :D > > Thanks Garth though, I appreciate the time you've taken to respond. > I can now stop tearing my hair out! How about this idea? set the EXS up with 3 voices on one group ­ use to play your open hi-hats. Add an additional note to your EXS that plays completely silent when it¹s triggered. Then route the midi instead of direct from the track to the EXS, through a transformer object. Set it so when a close-hat note is received, it ouputs the closed hat note, plus two more notes to trigger the silent sound you added. That way when you play the closed hat the the three new notes will use up all the polyphony and only the one new closed-hat note will sound, the others will be silent... ??? * Dave

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Hollow Sun <steve@h...> wrote: > Can't you have a 'polyphonic' closed hat on a spare key - use that for your > main closed hat pattern (i.e. without 'machine gun' re-triggering) but use > the monophonic closed hat just to 'close' the open one? Not really. For programming purposes there are workarounds, however this application is using Logic as a sample drum brain for an electronic kit, where you have a limited amount of pads to play live. > And doesn't EXS have a 'mute group' function where the samples are still > polyphonic (i.e. voice circulating with no 'machine gun' re-triggering) but > triggering another sample in that mute group will cut the other off?! No it doesn't. The only way to do mute groups is assign any sounds to the same group and set the voice count to 1. Monophonic mute groups only...

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, David Gordon <music-pro@c...> wrote: > How about this idea? set the EXS up with 3 voices on one group ­ use to > play your open hi-hats. Add an additional note to your EXS that plays > completely silent when it¹s triggered. Then route the midi instead of > direct from the track to the EXS, through a transformer object. Set it so > when a close-hat note is received, it ouputs the closed hat note, plus two > more notes to trigger the silent sound you added. That way when you play > the closed hat the the three new notes will use up all the polyphony and > only the one new closed-hat note will sound, the others will be silent... Thankd for the suggestion - nice to get our collective brains working on this :D This is in principle exactly what I was trying to do, and it's *exactly* the thing that doesn't work, although you'd expect it would. Instead of all the new notes using up the polyphony and silencing existing open hats, the open hats continue to sound and only the voices you have left will triggering on the new notes. Maxing the polyphony on your group to silence allready playing notes *does not* work, as confirmed by myself and Garth - regardless of whether you are maxing the voice count by layering multi-voice silent samples or triggering extra single notes - the effect is the same. The only way existing notes are cut off correctly by new ones that I can see is if the voice parameter (either on the group or globally) is set to 1.

Sorry for the re-post.... I clicked the wrong email option :- ===================== As some of you may know, Dr Robert Moog was recently diagnosed with an inoperable brain tumour :-( Dr Moog (or 'Bob' as he is more widely known) is arguably *the* most important figure in this industry and brought us the synthesiser as we know it today. His designs have influenced almost every keyboard product since from 'me-too' analogue monosynths to polysynths... even the samplers and virtual instruments we use today pretty much have the same voice architecture as the seminal designs he was pioneering as long ago as the mid-60s. Bob has recently been enjoying a renaissance with the release of his fabulous 'Voyager' and MoogerFooger products not to mention his tireless support for Theremins. He and his wife and family are being very stoic about this tragic situation and you can read more about their situation at: http://www.caringbridge.com/cb/inputSiteName.do?method=search&siteName=b obmo og You can sign a guestbook to pass on your thoughts to him - even make a donation to the charity website hosting his journal. Thanks for listening. Best regards, Steve http://www.hollowsun.com

> Not really. For programming purposes there are workarounds, however this > application is using Logic as a sample drum brain for an electronic kit, > where you have a limited amount of pads to play live. Ah! IC. > No it doesn't. The only way to do mute groups is assign any sounds to the same > group and set the voice count to 1. Monophonic mute groups only... Really? Ouch :-o Polyphonic mute groups have been standard fair on Akai samplers for about fifteen years!!! To do what you want on (say) my S5000 would take about a minute - or less - to set up. Wow - I *am* surprised! Best regards, Steve http://www.hollowsun.com

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Hollow Sun <steve@h...> wrote: > Polyphonic mute groups have been standard fair on Akai samplers for about > fifteen years!!! To do what you want on (say) my S5000 would take about a > minute - or less - to set up. > > Wow - I *am* surprised! Yep - I've been trying to get my head around this (including troubleshooting etc) for two days now... I expected it to take maybe half an hour or so! Anyway, I *think* I've found a workaround which looks like it's going to work. Let me work through it and try it out and then I will post back here with the results and maybe a more detailed post about what I'm doing...

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "des5080" <des5080@y...> wrote: > Anyway, I *think* I've found a workaround which looks like it's going to work. Ok it seems to work :) There is an improvement which I will try in a moment but I'm glad to have finally achieved what I wanted, which is a realistic, playable, controllable live sampled kit from pads. I have a V-Drum kit but it's own sounds are largely fairly rubbish, and I wanted to use the kit to play decent drum libraries - it sounds and *feels* so much better. For now I'm using Wizoo Mixtended Drums which I really like, although I will probably adapt a DKFH solution as well. The sample kits contain three EXS files for each full kit - direct samples, overhead samples, and room samples. For now I'm ignoring the room samples, there's enough reverb in a live room anyway and this technique can be expanded fairly simply to include those as well if you need to. What I want to do is when I play the kick, an EXS plays the dry kick on audio instrument 1, and the overhead samples on ai 2. The snares comes up on three and four, the toms on five and six, hats, cymbals, rides etc etc. You can quickly blend the direct and overhead levels for each drum group by the setting the levels of each dry and overhead channel. Each pair of direct/overhead channels goes to its own submix bus, so you can quickly alter the overal individual sections by adjusting the bus faders (pull the snare up, drop the cymbal levels down etc), then the whole lot goes to the main output or wherever else you want it. if you want to you can use plugins to compress the snares or eq toms etc, but you'll need to be carefull which plugs you use to avoid introducing latency. Now, this is fairly simple to set up. You *can* do it using just two instances of the EXS and route the individual drum groups to multiple output channels, but I chose to have individual EXS instances per group of sounds for one important reason - you can tweak the envelopes to quickly dampen the toms or snare, shorten cymbals etc, and tweak the polyphony settings accordingly to minimise processor overhead. It just gives you more control and doesn't really take much more overhead. As far as the environment goes, basically I use a mapped drum instrument to remap the incoming notes from the V-Drum brain into the correct EXS notes, using the mapped instruments ability to send to different output cables to ultimately determine which exs instance each note goes to. So for exampe, hit the snare, the note gets transformed by the mapped instrument and output on cable 2, which then gets sent to the dry snare EXS instance and the overhead snare EXS instance. At first I was going to modify each EXS instrument to remove the unused samples (so for the kick instance, we only load the kick samples) but this isn't necessary, as Logic pools all the samples and only loads them once anyway. Ok, works great. Now the last hurdle - that pesky hihat! I split the closed and open hats onto separate EXS instances, and using a couple of transformers route the hihat control pedal only to the open hat EXS, and set up the matrix to do a relative volume modulation based on the pedal. When the pedal is up, the closed hat multi zone sample plays at full volume. Close the pedal and the volume gets reduced to nothing. (I tried this using the ENV2 Decay setting first, but this doesn't update through the note, only for the next note-on). So in effect, there are no mute groups used at all. You play the open hat polyphonically, and when you close the pedal to play the next closed hat, the open hat stops (well, can't be heard :). The next thing to try is to use the sample select to either fade between more open hat samples down to nothing, and probably also to modulate the decay setting to give more individual control of open hat lengths. But so far, it works great, is *way* more playable than standard internal V-Drums kits and the overhead mics add a much needed degree of realism and ambience. In short it gives you a similar degree of control as things like BFD or DKFHS, but with the power to customise it for your own needs. Lastly, if you want to have multiple kits and be able to switch them from the V-Drum brain, you could create custom instruments containing all the sounds you need, and switch presets on the brain to send different note numbers to trigger the different sounds, again mapped by the mapped instrument at the heart. Apologies for the long post... Now I'm gonna go play me some drums! Thanks for everyone who helped out earlier.

> Yep - I've been trying to get my head around this (including troubleshooting > etc) for two days now Dear me! > I expected it to take maybe half an hour or so! I would expect as basic and fundamental a sample playback function as this to take half a *minute* or so here!!! It shouldn't even be an issue! > Anyway, I *think* I've found a workaround which looks like it's going to work. Well... I hope so. Good luck! I am just *astonished* that such a simple and fundamental feature is absent in EXS24 (maybe - presumably - other software samplers too!)!! And I was led to believe that these software thingies were 'cutting edge' technology! Hmmmm ;-) Best regards, Steve http://www.hollowsun.com

From: "des5080" <des5080@...>: > Hi, So I'm mapping up some hihat samples. I want the closed hat to mute > the open hat (easy, assign both to a group, voice count to 1). However, > I want to be able to play the open hat polyphonically as it sounds much > better. There was a documented 'trick' from here a while ago that made > this possible, and I'm trying to set this up but the behaviour of the > EXS24 is strange. > The trick is this: add a new zone to play another sample on the same > key as the closed hat. The volume of this sample will ultimately be > zero but for now we'd like to hear it. So every time you play a closed > hat, two samples/voices are playing. Increase the number of voices on the > group to two. Now when you play the open hat, it's two note polyphonic, > but when you play the closed hat, as it plays two voices it should cut > off any already sounding voices. You can increase the number of voices > to 3,4 etc as long as you add extra null samples to the closed hat sound. > Now this is all well and good, and seems to work for loads of people, > but not here. With the 2 voice example, if I hit the open hat and leave > it to ring, then hit the closed hat, instead of the open hat stopping > and the two closed hat samples playing instead, only one of the closed > hat sounds (the lowest zone) and the other sample clicks. The open hat > keeps sounding until it decays. The EXS24 is not reassigning voices that > are currently sounding in order to play new notes. Is there something > I'm missing to get this working? This is Mac Logic 7.0.. It still works here in LP 7.1, with the same hihat sample with the "null" zone's volume down (-96).. A "null" zone without a sample assigned to it didn't work, and a "null" zone with the sample start point set later in the sample also didn't work (as you described), for some strange reason (perhaps the real closed hat and "null" zones need to have the same sample length).. -- Cheers, Joe Albano ROOFTOP PRODUCTIONS NYC NY Music Production : http://www.rooftopproductions.com Freelance/Consult : http://www.rooftopproductions.com/Consulting.html

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Joe Albano <joea@n...> wrote: > It still works here in LP 7.1, with the same hihat sample with the > "null" zone's volume down (-96).. Hmm, so if you recreate my earlier post using the same samples on the two closed hat zones, you *can* cut off the ringing open hat? And you've always been able to do this with earlier Logic versions? (as you're the guy that started all this some time ago :) Then I haven't a clue what's going on! *Maybe* it's something odd to do with the samples themselves, like mono ones work but stereo don't, or 24-bit don't but 16-bit do etc > A "null" zone without a sample > assigned to it didn't work, and a "null" zone with the sample start > point set later in the sample also didn't work (as you described), > for some strange reason (perhaps the real closed hat and "null" zones > need to have the same sample length).. I just tried it with the exact same sample in both zones as you suggest, the main zone and null zone, and I still get the same behaviour... Very weird.

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Hollow Sun <steve@h...> wrote: > > I expected it to take maybe half an hour or so! > I would expect as basic and fundamental a sample playback function as this > to take half a *minute* or so here!!! It shouldn't even be an issue! Yes, but from researching this I already knew that the EXS did not have that function, so expected to spend a little time on the workaround - but not as much as I did! > I am just *astonished* that such a simple and fundamental feature is absent > in EXS24 (maybe - presumably - other software samplers too!)!! Again, from googling around I think this feature has only been recently added in Kontakt, and I'm not sure it was even done properly in there. Dunno about the others...

On 7/30/05 3:01 PM, "des5080" <des5080@...> wrote: > Thankd for the suggestion - nice to get our collective brains working on this > :D > > This is in principle exactly what I was trying to do, and it's *exactly* the > thing that doesn't > work, although you'd expect it would. > > Instead of all the new notes using up the polyphony and silencing existing > open hats, the > open hats continue to sound and only the voices you have left will triggering > on the new > notes. > > Maxing the polyphony on your group to silence allready playing notes *does > not* work, as > confirmed by myself and Garth - regardless of whether you are maxing the voice > count by > layering multi-voice silent samples or triggering extra single notes - the > effect is the > same. > > The only way existing notes are cut off correctly by new ones that I can see > is if the voice > parameter (either on the group or globally) is set to 1. I see. Ok, here is another suggestion that goes one step further. Setup 2 separate EXS programs. One of them is a plain open & closed hi-hat with 1-note polyphony. The other is the same open hat but instead of the closed-hat, it¹s a silent note. Then instanciate three separate EXS instruments ­ load one with the original program and two with the modified program. Use an environment midi instrument for your track. Route its midi output to a note splitter and split the closed-hat notes into a separate cable. Put that into a cable doubler to get three of them, and route them to all three EXS instruments. Then route the other output of the note splitter (with the open hi-hat notes) to a an object that sequentially or randomly sends them to each of three separate cables (I know there is an object that will do this ­ probably a fader, maybe a transformer, I¹m not sure which but it can be done). Take those three cables and route them to the three EXS instruments. This way each open-hat note will go randomly to the three different EXS instruments resulting in polyphonic open hats, and the close-hat note will go to all of the three EXS instruments, resulting in one closed-hat that cuts off any open hats in that EXS, plus two silent closed-hats that cut off the open hats in the other two EXS. Then you can use the mixer controls to change the EQ or levels or pans of the three hi-hats to get some good variations in sound. What do you think? * Dave

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, David Gordon <music-pro@c...> wrote: > This way each open-hat note will go randomly to the three different EXS > instruments resulting in polyphonic open hats, and the close-hat note will > go to all of the three EXS instruments, resulting in one closed-hat that > cuts off any open hats in that EXS, plus two silent closed-hats that cut off > the open hats in the other two EXS. Hi David, That sounds like it would work as well - that's an interesting solution. In effect you are still relying on monophonic mute groups to choke the hat correctly, but instead relying on multiple EXS instances to get the hihat polyphony I require. I like it! It's a bit messy as environment stuff can sometimes be, but does indeed look like another way of achieving this. This is one of the reasons I love Logic so much - if you need to do something, even if it can't there's usually a way of achieving it anyway :)

Can the EXS sampler in LE have new samples loaded into it? I've got the files on my hard disc so that the instrument names are showing up in the EXS drop down menu, but son't seem to be able to get them to play ...

JA> [The old polyphonic hihat trick as posted here and on the LUG before] JA> still works [for me] here in LP 7.1.. Oops, you're right it doesn't!!! When I recreated this patch yesterday, I had inadvertently duplicated the open hihat zone as well (which defeats the whole purpose of the polyphonic hats!) - when I corrected this, I saw the same odd behavior as described elsewhere in this thread).. (Incidentally, the clicking seems to result when the first closed hh zone is "live" and the 2nd is the "null" zone - reverse this, and the closed hats seem to play normally, they just don't cut off the open).. Unfortunately, I can't find a copy of the instrument I'd tested this in a couple years ago when I'd posted the trick back then (I actually do my hihats differently, with cc1 crossfading), so I don't know if I had some additional tweak I'm not thinking of now, or if Logic/EXS just changed this functionality at some point along the way.. Sadly, it seems EXS is now ignoring the number of *layered* voices triggered when you play a note (the basis for this trick), and instead is going only by the number of actual (different) notes played on the keyboard (which does seem to work consistently).. As Dave Gordon already suggested, a workaround could be to set hihat polyphony to 2 (or 3), and set up a Transformer that doubles (or triples etc) each closed hihat note on another key with a silent sample, also set to the same Group.. This works fine, although since it requires Environment stuff it's no longer a self-contained EXS patch.. From: "des5080" <des5080@...>: > Maxing the polyphony on your group to silence already playing notes > *does not* work, as confirmed by myself and Garth - regardless of whether > you are maxing the voice count by layering multi-voice silent samples or > triggering extra single notes - the effect is the same.. Hmm.. Triggering extra notes on the keyboard definitely *does* work here, and so does generating the extra notes via Environment Transformers (Copy Matching Events, Apply Operation) - I just tested it with a 3-note hihat patch (as described by Dave in his post) and it works fine. Here's the setup.. EXS Hihat Instrument: (Pick any notes for the hats and null sample) Zone 1: Closed Hihat (A2-C3) Zone 2: Silent Sample (G2-G#2) } All set to the same EXS Group, Voices = 3 Zone 3: Open Hihat (C#3-E3) / Transformer #1 set as follows: (Copy Matching Events, Apply Operation) Conditions: Status Channel Pitch Velocity Note Thru A2-C3 Thru Operations: Status Channel Pitch Velocity Thru Thru G2 Thru Transformer #2 set the same except G#2 instead of G2 Each closed hihat note now triggers 3 actual notes, all in the same Group as the open hats, cutting them off - this seems to work consistently.. If you were going to go the route of using Transformers, then there are also other ways to accomplish this - I have a patch that has closed, 1/2-open, and open hihats on different keys, where any combination of 1/2-open and open notes are cut off by either the closed hh notes or the hh-foot note, and this could easily be extended to have even more different gradations of open and semi-open hat sounds, all being cut off by the closed/foot. The above setup is done with a combination of hihat groups (all on the same note) set to crossfade via the modwheel (which is the way I do it, actually via a foot pedal that outputs cc1), and an alternative keyboard-only mode using Transformers that map different notes played on the keyboard and generate the appropriate modwheel (cc1) values for each hihat note played.. This makes the polyphony setting irrelevant, and allows the use of different EXS instances for closed and open hats, which is useful if you're using velocity->attacktime or velocity->samplestart to tweak the hats' dynamic response (as opposed to velocity cross-switching).. Once the Environment stuff is set up in a Template, it's easily accessible by any hihat patch you've setup to work with this method.. From: "des5080" <des5080@...>: > I have a V-Drum kit but it's own sounds are largely fairly rubbish, and > I wanted to use the kit to play decent drum libraries - it sounds and > *feels* so much better.. > I split the closed and open hats onto separate EXS instances, and using > a couple of transformers route the hihat control pedal only to the open > hat EXS, and set up the matrix to do a relative volume modulation based > on the pedal. When the pedal is up, the closed hat multi zone sample > plays at full volume. Close the pedal and the volume gets reduced to > nothing. (I tried this using the ENV2 Decay setting first, but this > doesn't update through the note, only for the next note-on). > So in effect, there are no mute groups used at all. You play the open > hat polyphonically, and when you close the pedal to play the next closed > hat, the open hat stops (well, can't be heard :). > The next thing to try is to use the sample select to either fade between > more open hat samples down to nothing, and probably also to modulate the > decay setting to give more individual control of open hat lengths. Aha, sounds like you've already hit on the cc-based approach.. If you have samples of various degrees of hh-"openness", all from the same hat, you can map the foot control to sweep between them using Groups or separate EXS instances for greater programming control. That's pretty much how my setup works as well - you can also adapt it to play from the keyboard when the V-Drum kit is not handy, as above.. Watch out, in Logic 7.1 (I think) they changed the Group functionality to accommodate some GarageBand programs(!), and now using cc4 to crossfade EXS Groups changes the functionality of (remaps) pitchbend & modwheel cc's! I mention this because I seem to remember that V-Drum uses cc4 for the hihat pedal - you might want to remap this to some other cc (1?), and avoid using cc4 in your EXS Group crossfade setups.. I'm still tweaking my own EXS hihats (I'm just finishing porting my drum kits over from Kurzweil) so if I come up with any interesting tweaks, or run into any other weird behavior or changes in functionality (!) I'll post.. -- Cheers, Joe Albano ROOFTOP PRODUCTIONS NYC NY Music Production : http://www.rooftopproductions.com Freelance/Consult : http://www.rooftopproductions.com/Consulting.html

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Joe Albano <joea@n...> wrote: > Oops, you're right it doesn't!!! Good stuff :) > (Incidentally, the clicking seems to result when the > first closed hh zone is "live" and the 2nd is the "null" zone - > reverse this, and the closed hats seem to play normally, they just > don't cut off the open).. Yep, that's because it's the null zone that is 'clicking' due to lack of voices, you just can't hear it. > crossfading), so I don't know if I had some additional tweak I'm not > thinking of now, or if Logic/EXS just changed this functionality at > some point along the way.. Certainly this way it doesn't work in 5.5.1 - dunno about earlier.... > Hmm.. Triggering extra notes on the keyboard definitely *does* work > here, and so does generating the extra notes via Environment > Transformers (Copy Matching Events, Apply Operation) - I just tested > it with a 3-note hihat patch (as described by Dave in his post) and > it works fine. Here's the setup.. I will try that when I feel strong enough :) You certainly seen to have been round the houses when it comes to drums/hi-hat setsup with Logic - phew! > Aha, sounds like you've already hit on the cc-based approach.. Yes, and it seems to work well - even better in fact than having a closed hat cut off the open hat, as on a real hat it's *only* closing the pedal that chokes an open hat anyway. > If you > have samples of various degrees of hh-"openness", all from the same > hat, you can map the foot control to sweep between them using Groups > or separate EXS instances for greater programming control. Yes, that is the next thing to try really, it's all about finding a playable setup. At the moment I'm playing a tweaking and geting used to everything and getting the feel right... > Watch out, in Logic 7.1 (I think) they changed the Group > functionality to accommodate some GarageBand programs(!), and now > using cc4 to crossfade EXS Groups changes the functionality of > (remaps) pitchbend & modwheel cc's! I mention this because I seem to > remember that V-Drum uses cc4 for the hihat pedal - you might want to > remap this to some other cc (1?), and avoid using cc4 in your EXS > Group crossfade setups.. Thanks for the heads up - I am indeed using #4 at the moment. I paid for 7.1 on release and it was mis-delivered, so goodness knows when I'm finally going to get my update :( > I'm still tweaking my own EXS hihats (I'm just finishing porting my > drum kits over from Kurzweil) so if I come up with any interesting > tweaks, or run into any other weird behavior or changes in > functionality (!) I'll post.. Please do, I appreciate your knowledge and experience Joe... Many thanks,

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Need some Help running the BCF 2000 in Logic Pro! Can any Body help me, would be great, thanks.

Hi, Wouldn't happen to know about a better solution than what has allready been posted, just wanted to chime in saying that the hihat exclusive group thing is a true pain when dealing with a lot of samplers, even dedicated drum samplers. It's really beyond my understanding how this can't be adressed properly by each and every sampler developer. The solution can be very easy: Instead of setting up groups with limited polyphony, the groups should cancel themselves out on a note number base. That way you could have as much ringing, velocity switched or velocity x-faded samples as you like while hitting a new key would perfectly shut them down. Now, would you happen to know what? This is exactly how FXpansions DR-008 is handling things. Individual cells are allways polyphonic, regardless whether you route them to a "choke" group or not (and fwiw, Battery doesn't do this). Of course, DR-008 is PC-only, but I'm sure the upcoming Drum 9 (which will come in all plugin formats) will just work the same. On a sidenote: Without patting myself on the back too much, you may take a wild guess whom it was, requesting this very feature during the DR-008 betatest... (btw, it has also been one of my first requests when the EXS was tested, but Mr. Developer apparently didn't agree that this could be important, just as he didn't agree on a whole lot of other points, *sigh*). - Sascha

On Jul ,31, 2005, at 5:49 AM, des5080 wrote: > Hi David, > > That sounds like it would work as well - that's an interesting > solution. > > In effect you are still relying on monophonic mute groups to choke > the hat correctly, but > instead relying on multiple EXS instances to get the hihat polyphony > I require. I like it! Hi, I've been enjoying this thread, and have been letting it percolate in my head for a while. Another approach occurred to me. I'm not certain it will work, but at the very least might push the collective train of thought to explore in another direction. Suppose you copied and mapped your open and closed high hat samples to an alternate set of zones up higher (out of the way) in the same single EXS instrument. Assign these duplicated zones to a unique group set to one voice polyphony, as with the original zones. Then create a transformer in the environment with it's condition set to react only to the incoming open hi hat note number coming from your controller, and set it in alternating cable mode so that each successive hit is alternating which cable it is going out of. Run a cable from one of that transformer's outputs to another transformer set to transpose the incoming note up to the note number corresponding to the second zone you have set up for the open hi hat. This way you can keep striking open hi hats and they will remain unchoked since they are alternating between the two (monophonic) groups. Then set up a transformer to "see" the incoming closed hi hat triggered note only (but no alternating split, just a regular output), and have a second transformer in line to duplicate that incoming note and route it to the closed hi hat sample in the second group that is set up. And in this second group, pull the velocity down to zero for the closed hi hat sample. This way a closed hi hat note will be sent to both groups, so no matter which is the most recently triggered open hi hat sample, it will get choked. And even though each time you hit a closed hi hat, the sample will be triggered in both zones; only one will sound due to the velocity being set to zero in the second set. Whadda' ya' all think? -------- Eli Krantzberg http://www.nightshiftorchestra.com Almat Productions

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Eli Krantzberg <elik@v...> wrote: > Suppose you copied and mapped your open and closed > high hat samples to an alternate set of zones up higher > (out of the way) in the same single EXS instrument. > Whadda' ya' all think? Thanks Eli - another creative solution. I haven't tried it, but I think that would work. In effect it's taking first idea of multiple silent closed hats to close poly open hats, plus the previous idea of using multiple EXS instances on mono open hats to get the open hat polyphony, but instead using multiple zones of mono open hats within one EXS instance. And obviously to increase the open hat polyphony you just use more zones and cables accordingly. That is a good and quite neat solution as far as I can see. Wow - I didn't expect to find this many ways of doing this, but it's great to know that Logic can cater for most needs when really pushed. Maybe there is a need to write up the summary of all this for a FAQ somewhere..? (Although reading it would probably make anyone's brain hurt! :)