From: "Henrik Buus Jensen" <henrik@...> >Is it legal to download a demo of a VSTi, sample the sounds, then >use the samples in EXS24 without buying the original product? I sure hope it's not! -- Nick Batzdorf 818/905-9101, cell 590-9101, fax 905-5434

> Is it legal to download a demo of a VSTi, sample the sounds, then > use the samples in EXS24 without buying the original product? > > I'm thinking no, but not sure. > > Thanks, > > Best regards, > Henrik Buus Jensen Uh....no....not legal - stealing, just like downloading music and not paying for it. James

> Is it legal to download a demo of a VSTi, sample the sounds, then > use the samples in EXS24 without buying the original product? > > I'm thinking no, but not sure. I think it wouldn't be technically "illegal" to do so, but, in professional good faith, it seems a little shady. - Deane Ogden Deane Ogden Studios™ http://www.deaneogden.com http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1676420/ Studio City, California, USA

All moral issues aside for now: From what I know (regardless whether it's a demo or a version you licensed), sampling a VSTi is perfectly legal - in case it's NOT sample based. But all this only applies in case you make the samples publically available. If you only use them for your personal purposes, there's no law against it at all. Whether you feel good about sampling demos or not is quite another story. I sampled quite a lot of VSTis (and still do), basically to save up CPU power, demos included - but meanwhile I own them all. To me that's just fair, especially in case I use those samples a lot. FWIW, I just started a rather intensive sampling project, covering the EVP88, EVD6, ES2 and partially the EVB3 - to have some of my most used sounds available in Cubase as well. In this particular case I will have no moral problems in sharing them at all. The instruments are not sample based (which would make sharing patches a copright infringement) and I wouldn't feel bad about it at all anyways. - Sascha

James Ryan wrote: >>Is it legal to download a demo of a VSTi, sample the sounds, then >>use the samples in EXS24 without buying the original product? >> >>I'm thinking no, but not sure. >> >>Thanks, >> >>Best regards, >>Henrik Buus Jensen > > > > Uh....no....not legal - stealing, just like downloading music and not paying > for it. > > James But what do you think about the statement on the Linplug site? "The only restriction that applies to demo versions is that they emit a noise about once every minute." Doesn't this imply that these don't come under the licence of the actual instruments and that they are actually giving you permission to do what you want? -- Pete Thomas www.petethomas.co.uk - Free Logic Icons, Environments and EXS Instruments

I imported the Gigasampler SampleTekk harpsichord into EXSP24 (under LE7); this sample set is supposed to feature release samples. It appears, however, that the EXSP does not support release samples (or, if it does, I'm not hearing them). Is this the case? If so, what other playback limitations does the EXSP24 feature as compared to the full EXS? (Obviously, the EXS24 omits the editing features of the EXS -- as far as this question goes, I'm interested in figuring out what I'm missing with purchased samples.) By the way, what's the best available AudioUnit sampler? :-) cheers, wb

On 26.01.2005, at 22:05, Pete Thomas wrote: > But what do you think about the statement on the Linplug site? > > "The only restriction that applies to > demo versions is that they emit a noise about once every minute." > > Doesn't this imply that these don't come under the licence of the > actual > instruments and that they are actually giving you permission to do what > you want? The full text is: "The Demos are fully functional. The only restriction that applies to demo versions is that they emit a noise about once every minute." Pretty clear that they talk about functionality. A lawyer might try to go around that but I believe the judge would decide for the benefit of the company. But an adjudication depends sometimes on the knowledge of the customer: is it supposable that he did understand the message? If you, Pete, are the customer, the judge might say "we know that you know...". With a newbie it could be different. Of course, on the website you mentioned they should better say "technical restriction". Peter Ostry

> James Ryan wrote: No I didn't. >>> Is it legal to download a demo of a VSTi, sample the sounds, then >>> use the samples in EXS24 without buying the original product? >>> >>> I'm thinking no, but not sure. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Henrik Buus Jensen >> This is my quote: >> Uh....no....not legal - stealing, just like downloading music and not paying >> for it. >> >> James > > But what do you think about the statement on the Linplug site? > > "The only restriction that applies to > demo versions is that they emit a noise about once every minute." > > Doesn't this imply that these don't come under the licence of the actual > instruments and that they are actually giving you permission to do what > you want? > > -- > Pete Thomas > www.petethomas.co.uk > - Free Logic Icons, Environments and EXS Instruments Hi Pete, I didn't write the original post but I will answer your question. The "only restriction...." refers to your using the software - it's going to bleep you every so often. It's a performance of the instrument restriction. You won't want to use it on a project. As for the sounds contained in the instrument, I would be amazed if they didn't have some copyright restriction on them. This was probably written by a salesman and not the legal team. Had the legal team written it, it would have probably read more like: You may use this software demo freely to explore it's capabilities. It may not be used in professional projects and will emit a sound occasionally to prevent misuse. This software and all sounds contained are the property of Linplug. They are copyrighted worldwide and copying and using them in other software, or reselling them in any way, shape or form is strictly forbidden....... Or some such thing. Yes, I live with a lawyer. Cheers, James

I know that I can control an open/closed hihat with an external controller - modwheel or pedal to vary the sound. But I cannot find the example any more. Could anybody direct me to a website or give an explanation how it can be done? Thank you, Peter Ostry

> >>Is it legal to download a demo of a VSTi, sample the sounds, then > >>use the samples in EXS24 without buying the original product? > >>I'm thinking no, but not sure. > > > > Uh....no....not legal - stealing, just like downloading music and > > not paying for it. > > James > > But what do you think about the statement on the Linplug site? > "The only restriction that applies to > demo versions is that they emit a noise about once every minute." > Doesn't this imply that these don't come under the licence of the > actual instruments and that they are actually giving you permission > to do what you want? Sir, might I enquire as to why you didn't _ask_ Linnplug for their express permision to use their sounds outwith the context of a Linnplug product? Isn't the onus to verify such use put upon _you_, as the one who wants to make such use? Are you not aware that to _not_ take such steps to ensure the legality of use/abuse of content that you leave yourself open to the possibility of criminal activity? <snipped by admin> Ian William Shaftem <snipped by admin>

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "sleazyjoeblob" <azyte@b...> wrote: > > Sir, might I enquire as to why you didn't _ask_ Linnplug for their > express permision to use their sounds outwith the context of a > Linnplug product? Isn't the onus to verify such use put upon _you_, > as the one who wants to make such use? Are you not aware that to _not_ > take such steps to ensure the legality of use/abuse of content that > you leave yourself open to the possibility of criminal activity? > > <snipped by admin> > > Ian William Shaftem > > <snipped by admin> > Good question - it simply didn't occur to me! I just mailed them and will post their response here. Best regards, Henrik Buus Jensen *** Dear Linplug, Would it be legal for me to download the demos of some of your excellent products, sample the sounds and then use these samples in my songs - that is, without actually buying the products in question? The reason I'm asking is because of this sentence on your homepage: "The Demos are fully functional. The only restriction that applies to demo versions is that they emit a noise about once every minute." There is a thread on the Emagic EXS24 discussion group about whether or not this means there is no legal restriction on the use of these demo versions (see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exs-users/) I would like to stress that I fully intend to stay within the boundaries of the law and have no intentions of taking advantage of any of your products in a manner you didn't mean to allow - regardless of the exact wording of licenses etc. That said, if you give the green light, I will not hesitate to add some of these lovely sounds to my sample library. I have posted this e-mail on the discussion group and will take the liberty of posting your reply there also, if it's okay. Thank you in advance, Best regards, Henrik Buus Jensen

In the process of installing the Albino 2 demo, I came across the license: "The user is not allowed to distribute the program or the sounds or samples of the sounds. Further, the user may not modify, the user may not decompile and the user may not debug the software. Sounds provided within the Albino by Rob Papen Sound Design & Music are also licensed to the user "as is" with the same terms and extra term added that the user may not copy or sample sounds for distribution use." This doesn't really shed much light on the issue! Apparently it's illegal to sample sounds *for distribution use*, but what about sampling sounds in order of using them in your own songs? It will be interesting to hear Linplug's comment. Best regards, Henrik Buus Jensen

Henrik Buus Jensen wrote: > > --- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "sleazyjoeblob" <azyte@b...> wrote: > >>Sir, might I enquire as to why you didn't _ask_ Linnplug for their >>express permision to use their sounds outwith the context of a >>Linnplug product? Isn't the onus to verify such use put upon > > _you_, > >>as the one who wants to make such use? Are you not aware that to > > _not_ > >>take such steps to ensure the legality of use/abuse of content that >>you leave yourself open to the possibility of criminal activity? >> >><snipped by admin> >> >>Ian William Shaftem >> >><snipped by admin> >> > Good question - it simply didn't occur to me! > I just mailed them and will post their response here. > > Best regards, > Henrik Buus Jensen > > *** > > Dear Linplug, > > Would it be legal for me to download the demos of some of your > excellent products, sample the sounds and then use these samples in > my songs - that is, without actually buying the products in question? > > The reason I'm asking is because of this sentence on your homepage: > > "The Demos are fully functional. The only restriction that applies to > demo versions is that they emit a noise about once every minute." > > There is a thread on the Emagic EXS24 discussion group about whether > or not this means there is no legal restriction on the use of these > demo versions (see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exs-users/) > > I would like to stress that I fully intend to stay within the > boundaries of the law and have no intentions of taking advantage of > any of your products in a manner you didn't mean to allow - > regardless of the exact wording of licenses etc. That said, if you > give the green light, I will not hesitate to add some of these > lovely sounds to my sample library. > > I have posted this e-mail on the discussion group and will take the > liberty of posting your reply there also, if it's okay. > > Thank you in advance, > > Best regards, > Henrik Buus Jensen What's the betting that wording will change in the next few days? -- Pete Thomas www.petethomas.co.uk - Free Logic Icons, Environments and EXS Instruments

Hi, On 27-Jan-05, at 1:21 AM, Henrik Buus Jensen wrote: > In the process of installing the Albino 2 demo, I came across the > license: > > "The user is not allowed to distribute the program or the sounds or > samples of the sounds. Further, the user may not modify, the user > may not decompile and the user may not debug the software. > > Sounds provided within the Albino by Rob Papen Sound Design & Music > are also licensed to the user "as is" with the same terms and extra > term added that the user may not copy or sample sounds for > distribution use." > > This doesn't really shed much light on the issue! Apparently it's > illegal to sample sounds *for distribution use*, but what about > sampling sounds in order of using them in your own songs? I'm willing to bet that any form of sampling of the sounds for use in your song will not be allowed. It's pretty obvious if you take some of Rob Papen's programmed sounds from Albino and sample them to use in one of your songs and you've only got them from a demo, it will not be allowed. If you own Albino, sample them and use them in your own songs, I suspect that technically it is not allowed but they won't care (and wouldn't be able to prove that you sampled them instead of using the synth itself). Bottom line is that I don't think that you'll get anywhere with them or any other VSTi developer. Fernstudio

I recently bought Dan Dean's Solo Strings CD, and though it sounds great and imports well into EXS from its native Giga format, the sustains aren't looped and are quite short due to its origin as a hardware-based library. Dan sent me some .art update files with sustained loops, but of course EXS can't do anything with those. I don't believe Translator or CDXtract can convert .art files to EXS, either. Does anybody happen to have--and are willing to share--these looped files in EXS format? I can take them in Kontakt format as well. Any help appreciated. Sean McCoy Oregon Sound Recording

At 07:39 AM 1/27/2005 -0800, you wrote: >I recently bought Dan Dean's Solo Strings CD, and though it sounds great >and imports well into EXS from its native Giga format, the sustains aren't >looped and are quite short due to its origin as a hardware-based library. >Dan sent me some .art update files with sustained loops, but of course EXS >can't do anything with those. I don't believe Translator or CDXtract can >convert .art files to EXS, either. Translator on Windows does. An .art file is essentially all new Instrument information without the samples. Translator takes the .art info and connects it to the .gig file, if it's the same name. If a same-name doesn't exist, it asks you which .gig file to connect too. But I think you are using Mac - if you have a Win machine you can do this. We were going to make a utility that updates .gig files with appropriate .art files, but haven't had a chance. Perhaps I should do that today or something. If not, I'm in California at the moment through Monday - if you are willing to wait 'Til Tuesday, I'll "carry those voices" over Internet to you. =) Specifically, I think you are looking for .exs files that have been converted from the ".arted" .gig files, instead of the "version 1" .gig files, since the new loop points are in the Instrument data, not the samples. Garth Hjelte Sampler User

Hi All, I got an email today from a friend using the EXSP24 and thought/hoped someone here might be able to shed some light on his problem. Below is his original question; and then my not too useful as yet reply :-) from Luigi ( studiolumo@... ) > I am running Logic Express 6.4 on Mac OS 10.3. > > I would like to re-create in Logic Express a set-up I use in ProTools > LE with Sampletank: One instance of a multi-channel software sampler > with several midi instrument tracks routed to the individual channels > of the sampler. > > Following the instructions for the EXSP24, I have created a > 'multi-instrument' which allows me to assign individual Instrument > (midi) tracks to each of the EXSP24's channels. > > THE PROBLEM is that if I pan only one midi channel of the EXSP24, all > of instruments on all the midi channels pan together. It seems that > the only way to pan an individual midi channel is to create a new > 'instance' of the EXSP24. This defeats the purpose of the > multi-channel capability. > > Is this a limitation of the EXSP24, a design flaw in Logic or am I > missing something? > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. Below is a description of my > set-up: > > -- Lumo > > SET-UP description: I have loaded the EXSP24 into the 'insert' field > of Audio Instrument 1. The channel is set to 'All'. I have loaded > Piano into EXSP24 cha 1, Bass into cha 2 and Drums into ch 3. I have > created a 'Multi-instrument' in the Audio Environment window, clicked > on the channel boxes for 1, 2 and 3 and then connected the > multi-instrument cable to the Audio Instrument 1 track containing the > EXSP-24. On Instrument track 1, I have recorded midi notes for the > Piano and set the cha for this track to 1. On Instrument track 2, I > have recorded midi notes for the Bass and set the cha for this track > to 2. Ditto for Drums on 3. It works fine. However, when I adjust the > 'Pan' for Instrument 2 'Bass' to the left, all of the instruments pan > to the left. The EXSP24 seems to accept individual note on-off for > each midi channel, but not individual pan or volume for each channel. My short reply - so far: Hi Luigi, That is the way it is supposed to work. You are doing it correctly; cabling a multi instrument up to a "multi" version of the EXSP24; and then using the multi instrument subchannels as your track instruments. Have you made sure that your pan messages are being sent on the appropriate midi channels as well? You probably already have, maybe it's worth checking just in case.... I don't have the EXSP24 here to test it out, but it may just be a limitation of the EXSP 24 architecture. I'll post your question to the EXS24 mailing list and see if I get any replies (there are some EXSP24 users there as well). -------- Eli Krantzberg http://www.nightshiftorchestra.com Almat Productions

As promised, here's the reply from Linplug: ***** Hi, Personally speaking, I think you're ripping us off. The demos are designed for you to try out the instruments, not do finished productions with. Our prices are pretty low, and we're steadily upgrading and improving them. I'd say it's a thin line you're riding. Company speaking, I'd have to check with Peter. Of course, there's really no way we can check you so you'd do as you wish. I commend you on at least asking.... Kind Regards, Ken ***** I think the bottom line still is that we're dealing with a gray area where it's really up to ones conscience if one thinks it's okay to download demos and sample stuff from it. If someone feels like it, I'm certainly not going to be the one passing judgment on their moral. Personally, I'll stick to downloading Soundfonts etc. Interesting question, though, and thanks for the replies. Best regards, Henrik Buus Jensen

At 09:18 AM 01/27/2005, you wrote: >At 07:39 AM 1/27/2005 -0800, you wrote: > > >I recently bought Dan Dean's Solo Strings CD, and though it sounds great > >and imports well into EXS from its native Giga format, the sustains aren't > >looped and are quite short due to its origin as a hardware-based library. > >Dan sent me some .art update files with sustained loops, but of course EXS > >can't do anything with those. I don't believe Translator or CDXtract can > >convert .art files to EXS, either. > >Translator on Windows does. Sorry, Garth, I didn't realize that. I do have Translator on both platforms, so I'll give it a go. Thanks! Sean McCoy Oregon Sound Recording

And for the record, my reply to Linplug: ***** Hi Ken, Thanks for your quick response, and please accept my apology if I have offended you or any of the others in your company by asking this question. I know it's tricky, that's why I'm asking. With all the free samples and Soundfonts out there, I can assure you that I am not going to be wasting any time sampling stuff off demos. The software I'm running is the Logic Gold/EXS bundle bought a couple of years ago - and registered - and the only samples I have used in songs are free or taken from my Yamaha CS6x synth. I actually regret starting the thread on the user group but still, it was an interesting question and I would like to thank you again for replying. Best regards, Henrik Buus Jensen *****

On 27.01.2005, at 19:02, Henrik Buus Jensen wrote: > I think the bottom line still is that we're dealing with a gray area Speculations about possibilities to get something for free which is not intended to be free are interesting and some of us can learn about the complexity for her/his own work. But I think we should start seeing things differently: A world were anybody gets deprived of something because he has no bullet proof written license, is not a good world. But we want a good world, not? Possibly I am soon in the situation to give some advice or at least support regarding copyright. I will tell everybody "Do not do that. You don't want it to be done to your own property and don't forget: you would not have any samples without those people." Peter Ostry

Fernstudio wrote: > If you own Albino, sample them and use them in your own > songs, I suspect that technically it is not allowed but they won't care > (and wouldn't be able to prove that you sampled them instead of using > the synth itself). This is a) perfectly legal (otherwise you wouldn't even be allowed to freeze a track just because that's some sort of sampling too) and to extend it, b) it'd even be legal to distribute those sounds. The reason for b) being that Albino isn't sample based. Whether these laws are stupid or not is out of question - but that's the situation. - Sascha

At 10:04 AM 1/27/2005 -0800, you wrote: >At 09:18 AM 01/27/2005, you wrote: > > >At 07:39 AM 1/27/2005 -0800, you wrote: > > > > >I recently bought Dan Dean's Solo Strings CD, and though it sounds great > > >and imports well into EXS from its native Giga format, the sustains aren't > > >looped and are quite short due to its origin as a hardware-based library. > > >Dan sent me some .art update files with sustained loops, but of course EXS > > >can't do anything with those. I don't believe Translator or CDXtract can > > >convert .art files to EXS, either. > > > >Translator on Windows does. > > >Sorry, Garth, I didn't realize that. I do have Translator on both >platforms, so I'll give it a go. Thanks! Let me know! I talked to Dan this AM, he'd like to know what happens too. Garth Hjelte Sampler User

Hello, why does the esx.24 have double instruments..i.e. Clavinet.exs and ClavinateECO.exs ?? what the difference ?? many thanks ro

"rosie_finnegan" <rosie_finnegan@y...> wrote: > why does the esx.24 have double instruments..i.e. Clavinet.exs and ClavinateECO.exs ?? > what the difference ?? > many thanks Hi Rosie ECO means "economy" - in other words, the ECO sample set will not use the amount of resources the normal instrument will require. If you can use the normal ones, fine. If your machine starts to choke, the ECO samples might help. kind regards Mark Cahill