On Jul 27, 2004, at 11:29 AM, Hendrik Jan Veenstra wrote: > Following in the footsteps of their father, the kids have set up > their own bilingual website, for the insatiably curious, at > http://minknoia.omega-art.com/. Congratulation Hendrik Jan. And what a really sweet web site. They look really adorable and you all look like a happy family. Best of luck. > it's obviously to be expected that the > frequency of my contributions will go down a bit now that I have to > change diapers and feed two babies 8 times a day Actually, they may go up. You probably won't be getting too much sleep the first few months. You'll have lots of unplanned for extra "awake" time. You may find that checking and writing email will likely be a soothing calming distraction and a nice way to either take a break or wind back down in the middle of the night when your sleep is interrupted. -------- Eli Krantzberg http://www.nightshiftorchestra.com Almat Productions

Has anyone out there experienced hanging notes with the Akai Splendid Grand EXS instruments? It seems to only happen on certain notes. I deleted all of the groups in the 72M program and that seemed to fix the problem. Are groups even serving a function in these programs? Any other ideas/solutions for the problem? Thanks, Matt http://www.millertone.com

BIG CONGRATS to HJV(positive) from Sweden. Beautiful pics...all the very best. Papahood is fantastik! Micke Nilsson >Subject: Re: [EXS] Off-topic: daddy >Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 21:46:39 -0400 > > >On Jul 27, 2004, at 11:29 AM, Hendrik Jan Veenstra wrote: > > > Following in the footsteps of their father, the kids have set up > > their own bilingual website, for the insatiably curious, at > > http://minknoia.omega-art.com/. > _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pageþatures/virus

>Hendrik "gleaming with pride" Jan Congratulations, Hendrick! How many times have you been told to enjoy it - as if you needed to be told that - because it goes fast? (He says in disbelief at his daughter's 10th birthday.) Best, NB -- Nick Batzdorf 818/905-9101, cell 590-9101, fax 905-5434

Whoops, supposed to go directly to Hendrik. Oh well, at least this time I didn't embarrass myself... -- Nick Batzdorf 818/905-9101, cell 590-9101, fax 905-5434

This was posted on the regular Logic list. Don ------ Forwarded Message From: Howard Wooten <hwooten@...> Reply-To: logic-users@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 13:59:45 +0000 To: logic-users@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [LUG] Help - How do I reduce Disk IO usage? > From: "Jules Bromley" <jules@...> > >I'm just completing a project which uses quite a lot of heavily edited audio >(around 80 tracks, many with lots of clips, fades etc.). The system (G5 >dual 2GHz, 5GB Ram) has always been struggling, with the Disk IO meter >bouncing around the place, and the CPU meter often peaking. I've done a >load of bounces and freezes to reduce CPU load, but I'm still getting CPU >overs and massive Disk IO activity. In fact the disk IO seems to be >contributing to CPU Overloads, looking at the meters. Jules, According to others on the list it's a Logic problem as other DAW MIDI/Audio sequencers do not exhibit the excessive and/or erratic disk usage. There was a thread on this subject a couple of months ago. Search GMANE using "Disk Usage" (minus quotes) and look for this heading. Re: Additional HDs for G5? 36 track limit? (6) Shows up as msg #5. One of the recent threads mentioned disabling "journaling" on the audio drive. HW

I'm at 9.2.2 w/ 4.8.1 Logic My exsp 24 suddenly won't reauthorize. Anyone had this problem? Did it turn out to be you needed a replacement authorization disc from emagic?

First of all....thanks so much to everyone for all of the great suggestions. I think I've located the at least the immediate problem. I ran the activity monitor yesterday and discovered that once my Song had played all the way through....I was using all...completely all of my ram. I'm surmising that this is putting a crunch on performance. My only problem is that I can't add any more. Soooo I'm afraid I'm coming to the grim realization that I'm in the market for a new computer. I need portability so....Has anyone heard any rumors about a G5 powerbook? I've heard Apple is having a hard time keeping them from melting. julie

On 7/29/04 8:19 AM, "Julie Larson" <julielarson@...> wrote: > I ran the activity monitor yesterday and discovered that once my Song > had played all the way through....I was using all...completely all of > my ram. I'm surmising that this is putting a crunch on performance. It will definitely cause playback problems -- particularly if Logic is passing the virtual memory chores on to the OS itself! When I had my EXS prefs set the wrong way, it was damned nasty. In my previous post, I mentioned what I found to be the best settings to avoid this, keeping ass much of the RAM handling chores within Logic: "Sample Storage: "Original". "Yes, 32 Bit Float" does load more of the samples into RAM, effectively not using Logic's virtual memory. If your sample banks exceed your Mac's RAM and OS X starts to use its own virtual memory, however, things can get bad really fast." So, try running EXS's prefs with Sample Storage set to "original". That imparts a heavier load on the processor, but probably might be better than OS X's virtual memory. (also, did you reduce each EXS instance's polyphony down to each part's acceptable minimum?) > My only problem is that I can't add any more. Recent Powerbooks can take 2GB of RAM. > Soooo I'm afraid I'm > coming to the grim realization that I'm in the market for a new > computer. I need portability so....Has anyone heard any rumors about a > G5 powerbook? I've heard Apple is having a hard time keeping them from > melting. I wouldn't expect a G5 Powerbook until AT LEAST Macworld San Francisco in January (G5 iMacs are due for release in September, BTW). When that finally happens, I too will be looking into moving to a laptop. It would be nice to do a TV series score from a beach, somewhere :-)

dropzone@... wrote: > > "Sample Storage: "Original". "Yes, 32 Bit Float" does load more of the > samples into RAM, effectively not using Logic's virtual memory. Actually, this parameter does not affect virtual memory - it determines whether or not samples are converted to 32 bit float when loading them into RAM. This is the format the audio engine uses so it saves the CPU load of converting the formats at the time the sample is triggered but at the cost of increased RAM footprint. If you are using virtual memory and you have this setting on my guess is that it would only affect the preloaded buffer section of the sample. Regards, Murray

Anybody know some good libraries on sale (for the EXSmkII) Diego

Hey Mac, On Jul 29, 2004, at 10:06 AM, Mac Duff wrote: > So, try running EXS's prefs with Sample Storage set to "original". > That > imparts a heavier load on the processor, but probably might be better > than > OS X's virtual memory. I have sample storage set to "original" per your first post. > > (also, did you reduce each EXS instance's polyphony down to each > part's > acceptable minimum?) > I systematically went through and reduced polyphony on each track. This helped with something that sounded a bit like track stealing but hadn't caused the computer to completely grind to a halt. I'm still out of RAM. I have a question here though. Is it standard for an instrument that has multiple layers for....say keyswitching, to use polyphony for all layers even though only one layer is playing? I understand that if you were using xfade to smooth transitions between layers that more polyphony would be used. But this isn't the case. I play one note and the polyphony use is 4. Is there something I'm missing? > > Recent Powerbooks can take 2GB of RAM. > I just didn't want to buy a new G4 only to find out that the G5s were coming out next week. Yeah....The park bench idea sounds pretty dreamy. Thanks again, julie

Hi Julie, On Jul 29, 2004, at 5:19 AM, Julie Larson wrote: > I ran the activity monitor yesterday and discovered that once my Song > had played all the way through....I was using all...completely all of > my ram. Is your machine OS 9 bootable? If so, have you tried it under 9? Have you experimented with Logic memory settings there? I know it's a crazy idea, but if it might help, why not :-) ? Best, Andy

On 7/29/04 1:45 PM, "Murray McDowall" <murraymc@...> wrote: >> "Sample Storage: "Original". "Yes, 32 Bit Float" does load more of the >> samples into RAM, effectively not using Logic's virtual memory. > > > Actually, this parameter does not affect virtual memory - it determines > whether > or not samples are converted to 32 bit float when loading them into RAM. This > is the format the audio engine uses so it saves the CPU load of converting the > formats at the time the sample is triggered but at the cost of increased RAM > footprint. But it does effect OS X's virtual memory. As you say there's "a cost of AN INCREASED RAM FOOTPRINT". And, if you have ten tons of samples loaded and that footprint gets too big, you run out of physical RAM.. And then, OS X's virtual memory kicks in -- and that's when I experienced significant crackling and Logic crashing. We're talking well over a gig of samples on a 2GB system across about sixty instruments, including one EVB3, one EVP88 and one Space Designer instance with dual 1.3GHz G4 (an upgraded Sawtooth). I tried loading this large Logic project with this EXS setting to both normal and 32 bit. With OS X's Activity Monitor showing me my RAM usage, 32 bit float mode scarfed up my physical RAM like crazy and paged to disk. It seems that Logic would load up samples for instruments being used, but then if you jump to a different section of your song file where other samples are being used, or select the track with the EXB3 for instance and started tickling the ivories, boy would crap start a'crackling! Activity Monitor showed fervent VM pageins... and CRASH! Logic would go down. Repeatedly. Then, set the EXS prefs to normal and the physical RAM usage is much better. > If you are using virtual memory and you have this setting on my guess is that > it would only affect the preloaded buffer section of the sample. Actually, does Logic in OS X even have its own virtual memory?? In OS 9, there was that System extension you could use (forget its name -- probably something obvious). But, in OS X is there anything like that going on with Logic?? Anyhoo, I stand by my point: OS X's virtual memory is poison to a stable Logic system. "Original" sample storage and "Normal" sample rate conversion helps avoid it.

On 7/29/04 12:18 PM, "Julie Larson" <julielarson@...> wrote: > Hey Mac, > I have a question here though. Is it standard for an > instrument that has multiple layers for....say keyswitching, to use > polyphony for all layers even though only one layer is playing? > I play one note and the polyphony use is 4. Is there something I'm > missing? According to the "Used" indicator on my EXS24's interface, no. I have a big-ass bass instrument with finger, slap, acoustic and distorted samples, all key switched. When I play one note, however, that event only consumes one note of polyphony. So, I don't know what's happening there... Unless maybe the stereo sample is actually two mono samples panned and therefore two voices??! >> Recent Powerbooks can take 2GB of RAM. > > I just didn't want to buy a new G4 only to find out that the G5s were > coming out next week. Most conjecture on the web points to January.

for some reason multi-out doesn't show up as a sub-menu option when i try to load an exs instance. old songs of mine set up using multi-out load with a slash through the instrument name. any ideas? mac os 9.2 logic 5.5

Hi all, Does any one know why certain EXS instruments would seemingly eat polyphony. I have a GOS violin instrument that when 1 note is played it uses 4 notes of polyphony. It is a keyswitched patch with 4 layers. It is as though it is using all 4 layers even though only 1 is heard. I understand that if there is xfading more voices would be used than notes played. But there is no xfading. Any ideas? Julie

At 09:29 AM 07/30/2004, you wrote: >Hi all, >Does any one know why certain EXS instruments would seemingly eat >polyphony. I have a GOS violin instrument that when 1 note is played >it uses 4 notes of polyphony. It is a keyswitched patch with 4 layers. > It is as though it is using all 4 layers even though only 1 is heard. >I understand that if there is xfading more voices would be used than >notes played. But there is no xfading. Any ideas? > >Julie Julie- Which instrument is it? I'll check mine and see if I can figure it out.

At 02:05 PM 7/29/04 -0400, you wrote: > > On 7/29/04 1:45 PM, "Murray McDowall" <murraymc@...> wrote: > > >> "Sample Storage: "Original". "Yes, 32 Bit Float" does load more of the > >> samples into RAM, effectively not using Logic's virtual memory. > > > > > > Actually, this parameter does not affect virtual memory - it determines > > whether > > or not samples are converted to 32 bit float when loading them into RAM. > This > > is the format the audio engine uses so it saves the CPU load of converting > the > > formats at the time the sample is triggered but at the cost of increased > RAM > > footprint. > > But it does effect OS X's virtual memory. As you say there's "a cost of AN > INCREASED RAM FOOTPRINT". And, if you have ten tons of samples loaded and > that footprint gets too big, you run out of physical RAM.. And then, OS X's > virtual memory kicks in -- and that's when I experienced significant > crackling and Logic crashing. We're talking well over a gig of samples on a > 2GB system across about sixty instruments, including one EVB3, one EVP88 and > one Space Designer instance with dual 1.3GHz G4 (an upgraded Sawtooth). (puts on mirrored shades and suth'n accent) What we have here is a communication problem. In an effort to avoid patent infringement problems Emagic's sample streaming was termed "Virtual Memory." This system of buffering sample starts in RAM and spooling the rest up from disk is internal to Logic and is like the system in other streaming samplers -- or DAWs which playback audio tracks for that matter. In OSX (or WinXP ) Virtual Memory is the name given for memory paging to disk and is another matter altogether. The use of the same name for OS paging and sample streaming has led to our misunderstanding. You are correct that as soon as you run out of physical ram the buffering of samples fails and you get crackles on playback of EXS24 streaming samples. It is also correct that 32 bit Sample loading is nothing to do with Emagics "Virtual Memory" - ie sample streaming. Regards, M

On 7/30/04 2:41 PM, "Murray McDowall" <murraymc@...> wrote: > (puts on mirrored shades and suth'n accent) :-) > What we have here is a communication problem. > > In an effort to avoid patent infringement problems Emagic's sample streaming > was termed "Virtual Memory." This system of buffering sample starts in RAM and > spooling the rest up from disk is internal to Logic and is like the system in > other streaming samplers -- or DAWs which playback audio tracks for that > matter. Okay. Fine. I know this sample streaming exists in the OS 9 version of Logic (enabled via the extension). I remember trying it in OS 9 with my stock 450MHz G4 a while back and it just couldn't do it. Cymbal decays were a mess, etc. I have wondered what was going on with this streaming virtual memory in OS X (as there is no mention of I that I can find in the prefs -- maybe I'm missing it?) So, is there a pref to turn it on? Or, does Logic (in OS X) invoke its "VM" when it thinks it is needed? > In OSX (or WinXP ) Virtual Memory is the name given for memory paging to disk > and is another matter altogether. The use of the same name for OS paging and > sample streaming has led to our misunderstanding. > > You are correct that as soon as you run out of physical ram the buffering of > samples fails and you get crackles on playback of EXS24 streaming samples. It > is also correct that 32 bit Sample loading is nothing to do with Emagics > "Virtual Memory" - ie sample streaming. Other than it consuming more RAM, right? And when I ran out of RAM, I don't know if LOGIC'S streaming kicked in or not. Activity Monitor just showed the RAM get gobbled as Logic rejuggled the resources of my loaded song when I went from "normal" to "32 bit float", and I subsequently experienced the crackling and crashing. That's why -- at the expense of a greater CPU load -- "normal" SEEMS to be working for me the best. Just to request again, how is Logic's virtual memory streaming invoked?? By the user? Or automatically by the app? Cordially Yours ;) MacDuff

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Mac Duff <dropzone@r...> wrote: > Just to request again, how is Logic's virtual memory streaming invoked?? Same way as it is in 9 - EXS pannel -> Options -> Virtual memory - make sure if the checkmark is ticked. Also there are some useful settings there, which I recommended to tweak in my first reply to Julie. Best, Andy

At 11:51 AM 07/30/2004, you wrote: >Just to request again, how is Logic's virtual memory streaming invoked?? By >the user? Or automatically by the app? Once you enable EXS's Virtual Memory, each and every sample will load a portion of its head into real memory for fastest triggering, while the rest of the sample will stream from disk. The size of the sample head is determined by how you set the Virtual Memory parameters. Faster systems can get away with smaller sample heads loaded, resulting in greater load capacity. OSX's use Virtual Memory is much less predictable, and is something I'm trying to come to grips with. According to the following document, http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum7918 OSX's VM is "a system of putting information in RAM or caching it to your hard disk as needed." I haven't been able to find out exactly when and why OSX finds it "needed" to use the swap file, as the Activity Monitor on my system seems to be indicating the use of Virtual Memory before my physical memory is full---but based on the above definition, that doesn't necessarily mean it's not still in physical memory. Obviously, for us sample users, whether information is in RAM or cached to disk is of critical importance. I'm right now in the process of testing my system, which has 5.5 gig of RAM, to see if I can figure out what's going on. Sean McCoy Oregon Sound Recording

Whenever you have any other source than velocity selecting your samples or layers/groups (which is the case when keyswitches are used), all the "unused" zones/groups will be played in "background" as well, therefor eating up voices. Not sure whether such a technical limitation is a must (from a developers view point), but it's just the way it is. Regards, Sascha

> > > Other than it consuming more RAM, right? And when I ran out of RAM, I don't > know if LOGIC'S streaming kicked in or not. Streaming of samples is on only if you have Virtual Memory checked in the EXS24 preferences. If you have this checked you can have huge sample libraries loaded. If it is off then you will be limited to some proportion of your physical RAM - try to load a 2 GB piano sample set into your 1GB or RAM and you will get crackling at best and a lot of disk activity when you try to load it as most of it ends up in the system swap file. > > Activity Monitor just showed the > RAM get gobbled as Logic rejuggled the resources of my loaded song when I > went from "normal" to "32 bit float", and I subsequently experienced the > crackling and crashing. That's why -- at the expense of a greater CPU load > -- "normal" SEEMS to be working for me the best. > > Just to request again, how is Logic's virtual memory streaming invoked?? By > the user? Or automatically by the app? See above - switch it on in EXS24 prefs - I have 1GB of RAM and I leave it on all the time. Regards, Murray

Hey folks :) Ya know, when Andy pointed out where the settings for EXS virtual memory was located in the UI, I pulled one great big fat "DOH!!" I tried it out A LONG time ago before my Sawtooth's G4 upgrade (still in Mac OS 9) and it just didn't work for me. Since I got the upgrade and moved to OS X and Logic Pro, I FORGOT about digging through that preference (I'm usually hitting the "Edit" button in EXS and saving EXS patches via the Edit window's file menu. So, I rarelygo into the UI's Options menu. ANYWAY, I started messing around with the VM settings last night, in the hopes of being able to use 32 bit float to ease off on the GPU. It crackled a bit on my 1.3GB bank. For now, I'm returning to the setup that worked for me (SR conversion normal, Sample Storage original, VM off, 512 I/O buffer, medium processor buffer, no OS X pageins with 2GB physical RAM) and maybe play with it more when the workload eases up. Thanks to you guys for clearing some isues up for me -- mainly to remind me of WHERE EXS' VM prefs reside! :-D MacDuff On 7/31/04 9:21 AM, "Murray McDowall" <murraymc@...> wrote: > >> >> >> Other than it consuming more RAM, right? And when I ran out of RAM, I don't >> know if LOGIC'S streaming kicked in or not. > > > Streaming of samples is on only if you have Virtual Memory checked in the > EXS24 > preferences. If you have this checked you can have huge sample libraries > loaded. If it is off then you will be limited to some proportion of your > physical RAM - try to load a 2 GB piano sample set into your 1GB or RAM and > you > will get crackling at best and a lot of disk activity when you try to load it > as most of it ends up in the system swap file. > >> >> Activity Monitor just showed the >> RAM get gobbled as Logic rejuggled the resources of my loaded song when I >> went from "normal" to "32 bit float", and I subsequently experienced the >> crackling and crashing. That's why -- at the expense of a greater CPU load >> -- "normal" SEEMS to be working for me the best. >> >> Just to request again, how is Logic's virtual memory streaming invoked?? By >> the user? Or automatically by the app? > > > > See above - switch it on in EXS24 prefs - I have 1GB of RAM and I leave it on > all the time. > > Regards, > Murray