On a fine day, 21-06-2004, Sascha Franck wrote: >The principle was to use a lot of >layers, all using keymapped samples of simple waveforms (sine, triangle, saw >etc.), then select the samples by the slider only (instead of using velocity >as a source). > >[...] > >Now, I seem to remember some update ReadMe, telling that each layer would >use up the full amount of played voices, no matter whether they are actually >sounding (read: their velocity zone is selected) or not. As I can't seem to >find this ReadMe anymore, could anybody confirm this behaviour? Correct: if you do a sample select by e.g. mod-wheel (non-velocity), all layers are playing at all times. When you do sample select by velocity (the default behaviour) only one layer is triggered instead. Layering samples and cycling through them with the mod-wheel can make for some pretty cool effect, but it does indeed eat up CPU quite fast. -- Hendrik Jan Veenstra h @ k n o w a r e . n l Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "Sascha Franck" <S.Franck@g...> wrote: > Hi, > (back and all from southern France, wasn't too bad but not as nice as I was > thinking either, but anyways...) > > As I can see, (almost?) all the content of the Hollowsun site has been > converted by now. > Nice group effort I think. > Now, who's gonna start a "patch of the week" thing, based on those samples? > I allready fooled around with some layers (of different instruments), making > intensive use of the EXSs mangling capabilities, but as I'm not a synth > kinda guy I'm having a hard time to get some proper results... > > Allright, quite some time ago I made some patches, almost converting the EXS > into some sort of standard VA synth. The principle was to use a lot of > layers, all using keymapped samples of simple waveforms (sine, triangle, saw > etc.), then select the samples by the slider only (instead of using velocity > as a source). In short, I tried to replace the usual OSC(s) waveform > selection by layers using appropriate samples. > And while it didn't seem to be a bad idea at first, CPU useage is going all > through the wall for my 30+ layer patch. > Now, I seem to remember some update ReadMe, telling that each layer would > use up the full amount of played voices, no matter whether they are actually > sounding (read: their velocity zone is selected) or not. As I can't seem to > find this ReadMe anymore, could anybody confirm this behaviour? I find that looped single cycle waveforms use up a lot of CPU cycles vs. nonlooped samples. I created a patch with a single cycle sine wave and playing chords sucked the life out of my 867Mhz G4. You might try rendering each waveform to be several seconds long, and therefore the samples won't loop as much or at all. -Matt Miller http://www.millertone.com It'd almost > render my "turn the EXS into a VA synth" efforts useless as I wouldn't save > any CPU cycles (which has been my original intention) in case each and every > zone would be triggered, no matter if it fits the selected velocity zone or > not. > Well, maybe it's not too much of a great idea anyways, as you can never tell > from the EXS's UI which layer/waveform was selected, plus, the lack of being > able to combine different layers (representing OSCs) without "saving as" a > new patch would not allow constructing truly "fat" sounds. I'd like to know > though. > > Regards, > Sascha

Sascha Franck wrote: > > Allright, quite some time ago I made some patches, almost converting the EXS > into some sort of standard VA synth. The principle was to use a lot of > layers, all using keymapped samples of simple waveforms (sine, triangle, saw > etc.), then select the samples by the slider only (instead of using velocity > as a source). In short, I tried to replace the usual OSC(s) waveform > selection by layers using appropriate samples. Apart from the CPU consumption problems you mention, the EXS24 produces a lot of aliasing when it is pitch shifting. So, unless you have one sample per semitone at any velocity level (ie no pitch shifting), it is going to end up sounding worse than a lot of your VA source material. More recent VA synths use anti-aliasing techniques - eg Pentagon 1 and Z3ta+ have band limited oscillators - they sound much clearer than the early VA synths like the Model E and the original Pro 5 because of the low levels of aliasing noise. I made a stack of synth sample based instruments a few years ago for the EXS24 using all the hardware samples I could get my hands on - I never use them these days because they are just too muddy sounding due to the accumulation of aliasing noise. I would like to convert them all to SFZ format someday and hear what they sound like without the aliasing. One solution would be for the EXS24 to have more levels of interpolation quality like SFZ - or even a high quality render mode for bouncing. Regards, Murray

MOTU got back to me surprisingly fast! According to Nathan at MOTU tech support, the PCI-424 driver is indeed multi-client, which he said he himself had tested and could verify. So, based on all the information I've gathered here and on the VSL forum, it is currently at least theoretically possible to run EXS with up to 3.5 Gb of samples loaded into RAM, simultaneously with Kontakt, either standalone or using a VST host, with another 3.5 Gb of samples loaded, doing all sequencing with Logic, triggering the Kontakt samples via Core Midi's IAC, with individually assignable outputs for the two samplers off of a single PCI-424. Anybody willing to test this out? The problem is that for the cost of another 4 Gig of Mac RAM, you can buy a decent PC and eliminate the risk. And even with a 2.5 GhZ G5, 7 gig of streaming samples could provide a serious test of CPU power, not to mention disk throughput. As obviously attractive as the idea of having that much sample playback power under one hood is, I think it's still not yet as practical as multiple machines. Maybe once we're dealing with all 64-bit programming, but not now.

In a message dated 6/20/04 6:40:35 AM, h@... writes: > Maybe I'm being dense, but this is still not clear to me.  Do you > mean that you load up _one_ EXS program, and that this program has > _two_ sample layers, one with an 'aheh' sound and the other with > 'ehoh'? > > >and so on, and in the EXS24 you're supposed to assign the "ah" and the "eh" > >to the mod wheel so you can do that rather than keyswitching. > > 'That'?  What 'that'?  Switching between layers of samples?  But > that's exactly what I described in my previous post, so apparently > I'm missing the point... > That is what I was aiming for; apparently I didn't understand your explanation. But the emagic tech guys sent me this link, which is a very concise description of what I'm trying to do, and the pictures help out as well. :) http://www.emagic.de/support/tipsNtricks/xfade.php?lang=EN

From: Sean McCoy <osr@...> >MOTU got back to me surprisingly fast! According to Nathan at MOTU tech >support, the PCI-424 driver is indeed multi-client, which he said he >himself had tested and could verify. So, based on all the information I've >gathered here and on the VSL forum, it is currently at least theoretically >possible to run EXS with up to 3.5 Gb of samples loaded into RAM, >simultaneously with Kontakt, either standalone or using a VST host, with >another 3.5 Gb of samples loaded, doing all sequencing with Logic, >triggering the Kontakt samples via Core Midi's IAC, with individually >assignable outputs for the two samplers off of a single PCI-424. > >Anybody willing to test this out? The problem is that for the cost of >another 4 Gig of Mac RAM, you can buy a decent PC and eliminate the >risk. And even with a 2.5 GhZ G5, 7 gig of streaming samples could provide >a serious test of CPU power, not to mention disk throughput. > >As obviously attractive as the idea of having that much sample playback >power under one hood is, I think it's still not yet as practical as >multiple machines. Maybe once we're dealing with all 64-bit programming, >but not now. Interesting. The other advantage to running samplers outside Logic - either on PCs or on the same Mac - is that you can keep them loaded when you change Songs (or Logic crashes). Now the question becomes how you route those Kontakts back into Logic or wherever you mix. I guess a physical lightpipe-to-lightpipe connection is the easiest way. There's probably an amount of RAM in a G5 that makes the most financial sense, most likely 4 or 4-1/2 gigs. I think that even a fully loaded G5 isn't going to be the single-machine solution we users of HUGE libs want. Right now I'm running two Windows machines in addition to my Mac (a G4), and it's not enough; that plus a G5 might be almost enough. *** Naaaah, not a chance! -- Nick Batzdorf 818/905-9101, cell 590-9101, fax 905-5434

On a fine day, 21-06-2004, kirbyko3@... wrote: >In a message dated 6/20/04 6:40:35 AM, h@... writes: > > >> Maybe I'm being dense, but this is still not clear to me. Do you >> mean that you load up _one_ EXS program, and that this program has >> _two_ sample layers, one with an 'aheh' sound and the other with >> 'ehoh'? >> >> >and so on, and in the EXS24 you're supposed to assign the "ah" and the "eh" >> >to the mod wheel so you can do that rather than keyswitching. >> >> 'That'? What 'that'? Switching between layers of samples? But >> that's exactly what I described in my previous post, so apparently > > I'm missing the point... > >That is what I was aiming for; apparently I didn't understand your >explanation. But the emagic tech guys sent me this link, which is >a very concise description of what I'm trying to do, and the >pictures help out as well. :) > >http://www.emagic.de/support/tipsNtricks/xfade.php?lang=EN Hm... that (see link above) is almost exactly what I wrote in one of my previous posts... Apparently you misunderstood what I tried to explain. Oh well -- glad you got it sorted out. -- Hendrik Jan Veenstra h @ k n o w a r e . n l Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

Hi all, i'm happy to announce the release of AutoSampler. We will make available a demo on the site in a few days: in the meanwhile the manual can be downloaded and checked. Official announce text follows. Best Regards Andrea at Redmatica Redmatica today released AutoSampler, the new revolutionary software dedicated to the automatic advanced sampling of midi instruments. Designed to be a creative tool for bridging the gap between high quality hardware synths and the virtual studio world, AutoSampler creates Exs24 instruments and samples just by connecting your mac to a midi sound source. Through the use of a suited host program as Logic, it's also possible to sample virtual instruments. The more advanced features let you create instruments that switch/fade between keymaps sampled with varying synthesis parameters. It’s also possible to create very complex sounds from multiple synth sources, using graphic mix volume envelopes to dynamically composite the layers of sound. At the end of this process, ready-to-play Exs24 instruments (and relative samples) are automatically created. Main Features - Multisample multivelocity sampling of external (hardware) synth patches in an automated unattended way. You can set the number of velocity levels to be sampled, the key range and the key step to use for sampling (every 1 semitone, every 2 semitones, etc....). It’s also possible to sample virtual instruments, through the use of an appropriate host as Logic. - Multidimensional sampling: you can sample and create Exs24 instruments that switch/fade between keymaps sampled with varying synthesis parameters. This kind of sampling is dedicated to reproducing the special dynamic synthesis nuances of the original sound source (physical modelling paramters, special filters, etc..) from your master keyboard knobs. - Creates ready-to-play Exs24 instruments without requiring specific user action/editing. - Midi layers sampling mode for advanced sound design: you can multisample a sound generated by mixing multiple synths. Each sound source has an independent user definable midi volume/expression graphic envelope and transpose parameter for compositing the desired sound. - Randomize and tweak functions for creating/modifying the envelopes. - Automatic sampling with specific normalization modes, limiter, truncation, trimming, audio overload protection, release time detection (so that created instruments are already set to the proper release time), custom velocity maps - Can sample whole banks of synth patches - Imports patch names from normal text files (which can be created by cut/paste from SoundDiver) - Integrated virtual keyboard and bidimensional virtual controller pad - Comprehensive log file generation with embedded graphical snapshots for each sample, exportable in rich text file format and viewable in a dedicated window - Standalone software for OSX 10.3.0 or later

Hi, I did a search... but can the EXSP24 'player' be used in OSX in a vst ap such as the upcoming Live4? I own & use LogicPro +EXSmkII but will want the option to play MY custom made EXS banks in Live4 too... (At least until AppleLoops becomes avil. in LogicPro7.) Thanks rand

Hi there, if I set up a group so only one voice can sound at any time (as one would wish for HiHats) then I have the feeling that the EXS should have more of a release time (like 80 ms) for the sample that is being stopped. The open HH sounds much too cut off the way it is now. Is there someone here who does this differently maybe? Also, I think Battery is actually doing this the way I tried to describe. Thanks for the help Cheers Hans

Hans Hafner wrote: > if I set up a group so only one voice can sound at any time (as one > would wish for HiHats) then I have the feeling that the EXS should > have more of a release time (like 80 ms) for the sample that is being > stopped. The open HH sounds much too cut off the way it is now. > > Is there someone here who does this differently maybe? The solution is relatively simple here, just raise the release parameter under the groups "ADSR Offset" function. Works relatively fine, also makes sure that some, say, opened or halfopened 1/8 note hats (the usual rock stuff) don't cut off each other too harsh. Regards, Sascha

I'd like to play 2 EXS audioinstruments with one midi keyboard in real time. If this keyboard sends on channel 1 (f.e.) the first EXS should play, if the keyboard sends on channel 2 (f.e.) the second EXS should play. Obviously it's not possible with channel splitters or real time transformers. One EXS works, I change the midi channel and there is no sound on the 2nd EXS, inspite there are for sure midi data running through the environment cable. Does anyone know the reason ?

Logic isn't capable of playing more than one virtual instrument in realtime (rather lame that this is still not implemented, if you ask me - quite some other hosts allready allow for this). Workaround for some situations: - Insert an I/O plugin on the desired EXS objects - Assign *any* ins and outs for the plugin - Bypass the plugin - Press play (won't work elsewise, which is the drawback) Regards, Sascha

Thanks, I've found an article in Keyboards 7/04 which describes your solution and it works. Bur you are right: only one realtime instrument without tricks in the environment is poor. Regards Stefan

Hi list! Im tryin to look for some good drum samples recorded at at least 96Khz. Does anybody know of any? Thanks Diego --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!

Diego "Flipper" Quiroz wrote: > Im tryin to look for some good drum samples recorded at at least 96Khz. Are you, by any chance, a whale? Welcome to the WWF!

At 07:46 AM 6/25/04 -0700, you wrote: > > Hi list! > Im tryin to look for some good drum samples recorded at at least 96Khz. > Does anybody know of any? I don't think they are really around yet. When GigaStudio 3.x is released there will be more 24/96 libraries of all kinds released. Some of the big recent libraries like Drumkit from Hell Superior from Toontrack were recorded at 24bit/196kHz and downsampled to 44.1 kHz/24 bit. Toontrack have said that if there is some demand they may release a 96kHz version at some point. I think that higher sampling rate libraries will come - they are just a way off yet. Regards, Murray

Hi guys an' gals, (6 months later and still haven't used the EXS24 for anything. Will try not to be too negative, but I really feel like going back to a QX5 and JV1080, after smashing this AU$10000 pile of sh*t with a sledgehammer, that is...) Most obvious problem in this latest attempt to use the EXS24 is that after a few minutes or seconds it starts blasting out a very loud and harsh white noise every time a note's played. It happens on both OS9.2.2 with Propogamma's USB ASIO driver, and on OS 10.3.4 with Digidesign's latest CoreAudio driver. Don't want to waste another $1k or so on hardware to replace the Mbox only to find that the fault's elsewhere, so... Any clues? Please? Yours hopefully, Bill Canty Original Message: From: Bill Canty Date: Sat Dec 13, 2003 6:44 pm Subject: Live Playing vs Sequence Playback? OK, I mentioned a few weeks back that I hadn't used the EXS24 cos I could hardly get it to work on my system, and threatened to be back with specific questions once I'd narrowed my problems down a bit. Well, the day has arrived... When I play my master keyboard, triggering an EXS24, many notes go missing, or get stuck, or play at the wrong pitch (often what sounds like a couple of octaves too high). (This also happens when I use an ES P or ES E softsynth.) But when I record some similar playing, then play it back, it seems to be OK. Is this a Logic/EXS24/Emagic softsynth problem, and therefore normal behaviour? Or does it still sound like a problem somewhere in my system? If so, any clues as to where the gremlin(s) might be lurking? G4/733, 1.5GB RAM, 500MB assigned to Logic 5.5.0, Griffin gPort (serial port), MOTU MTP2, Yamaha KX88 master keyboard Thanks in advance for any help! I've had the EXS24 for over a year, but haven't used it at all because of this problem, so I'll be *RAPT* if someone can help me sort it out! =8-)

hello everybody i have a problem with my exs24, there is about half a second passing from pressing key to hearing the sound, my audiowerk is working proberly at all, so it is not my system. i guess it is setting somewhere, but i already tried everything i found. can somebody help me? thx sascha

At 10:05 AM 6/26/04 +0000, you wrote: > > hello everybody > > i have a problem with my exs24, there is about half a second passing > from pressing key to hearing the sound, my audiowerk is working > proberly at all, so it is not my system. i guess it is setting > somewhere, but i already tried everything i found. can somebody help > me? Sounds like you have a very large audio buffer setting for you Audio card. Try a lower setting eg 256 samples . Regards, M

Bill Canty wrote: > (6 months later and still haven't used the EXS24 for anything. Will try > not to be too negative, but I really feel like going back to a QX5 and > JV1080, after smashing this AU$10000 pile of sh*t with a sledgehammer, > that is...) (snip) > Any clues? Please? Have you tried increasing the I/O Buffer Size (in Audio>Audio Hardware & Drivers? Andris

On Jun 26, 2004, at 8:22 PM, Andris Sice wrote: > Have you tried increasing the I/O Buffer Size (in Audio>Audio > Hardware & > Drivers? FTR, the MBox buffers don't go any lower than 512; (or .5; depending on how it is expressed). This is quite unusable for any "real world" overdubbing, midi input on soft synths, etc. -------- Eli Krantzberg http://www.nightshiftorchestra.com Almat Productions

Eli Krantzberg wrote: > FTR, the MBox buffers don't go any lower than 512; (or .5; depending on > how it is expressed). This is quite unusable for any "real world" > overdubbing, midi input on soft synths, etc. Seriously, if at all, I've heard nothing else but about problems from people using MBox'es. IMO it's overpriced and not well done and the drivers (no matter whether you're using a Mac or PC) are crap. Let alone the fact that a device, basically designed to be a more or less mobile solution, has no MIDI I/O. Sure, the converters might sound nice, but that's about it. If I was in the situation, I would try to get rid of it and get something like that http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=products.main&IDAcf7347b20eff77b6958 8578a74aa58 instead. M-Audio are known for proper drivers and their hardware quality has never been questionable. There's a Firewire model to be released soon as well, from what I know. Oh yes, usually I don't like advices such as "forget about what you have and buy something else", but in that case it might just save you from quite some frustration. Regards, Sascha

Thought some of you might be interested in this. http://www.djlaser.com/public/samplers/#sfz Regards, Murray

On 2004Jun27, at 2:19 AM, Bill@... wrote: > Most obvious problem in this latest attempt to use the EXS24 is that > after a few minutes or seconds it starts blasting out a very loud and > harsh white noise every time a note's played. I have this problem with my M-Audio Delta T-DIF card. For me, it's a sync issue. More than one piece of gear is trying to be the clock master and there can only be 1. Check all your digital devices and make sure that only 1 is master. What bugs me is that the driver reverts to master (I need it to be a slave) EVERY TIME I start my Mac. So if I forget to change this every morning I get a sonic enema as soon as I try to play a note through the EXS24. Ouch. I hope this helps. _ with best wishes, John http://abram.ca/